Strategy The great, big ruckmen thread

[vinum coupe]

I found us a new ruckman.

I went to the bombers v blues last night.

Man does Ryder work his absolute butt off. He is bloody brilliant.

 

[Barabbas]

Re: Mark Blake

Herald-Sun is picking up on this issue:

Is Mark Blake the unluckiest man in football?

Jon Anderson | June 27, 2009 12:00am

MARK Blake's CV from the past 2 1/2 years reads better than most ruckmen, yet conjecture mounts over his position at Geelong.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25696412-19742,00.html

Another lazy journalist gleaning articles from Bigfooty.

 

[Patronus]

Good to see Crackers put in his two cents worth.

I don't think I have ever seen his thoughts on the subject before.

I love the bit about Mumford going forward to take a contested mark and kick a goal.

Is this all theory becuase it does not happen. Maybe he has mixed up Ottens with Mumford becuase Blake takes more marks a game than Mumford. I suppose the great contested ones he does makes it all better but yet again Blake has more.

The only stat Mumford beats Blake in is tackles. Which I guess makes him look more 'desperate'.

In the end as a second ruckman is it better to make two players that are similar or have the second ruckman offer something different?

at least king played a half decent game in our 07 Granny, better than i expected at least.
Can't see blake doing that haha

Wow someone played a half decent game in a 119 point win. Byrnes could have been the back up ruck for the game and it would not have made a difference.

 

[Fuzzyash]

The only stat Mumford beats Blake in is tackles. Which I guess makes him look more 'desperate'.

Mumford is also well ahead in avg contested possessions, and avg disposals if time on ground is taken into account. As for tackles, well, Mumford laid 10 against Brisbane. Blake has laid 14 all year ...

Anyway, I agree that the article is crap. What's "unlucky" about not being good enough?

 

[Patronus]

What is the time on ground stats?

I would have though that for a ruckman a good indicator is hit outs becuase it is their main job after all and in the end Blake gives you a better chance of getting you an advantage from his tap work.

For all people want to go on about the two they get very similar disposals per game with Blake clearly winning on disposal efficiency despite his unco tendencies.

 

[hamG]

I think we should send Stephen Wells to Fiji and find ourselves another Naitanui.

 

[Vegas.]

I think we should send Stephen Wells to Fiji and find ourselves another Naitanui.

Good call, guy is nothing short of amazing.

 

[Patronus]

I think we should send Stephen Wells to Fiji and find ourselves another Naitanui.

I am sure if the team tanked we would have access to all of those types of players.

To bad you have to come last to have first pick in the draft.

 

[Fuzzyash]

What is the time on ground stats?

I would have though that for a ruckman a good indicator is hit outs becuase it is their main job after all and in the end Blake gives you a better chance of getting you an advantage from his tap work.

For all people want to go on about the two they get very similar disposals per game with Blake clearly winning on disposal efficiency despite his unco tendencies.

TOG: Mumford 50%, Blake 61%

Actually I'm surprised that Blake's TOG is that low as a no. 1 ruckman. Basically Mumford just shades Blake on disposals per game time but there's not much in it. Both have pretty high disposal efficiency (like most ruckmen) because they handball a lot.

As I've said before, I don't think Mumford's value over Blake can be measured in stats. Also the difference is not in contested marks, as this article tries to say - neither of them have shown much in that department, although Mumford looks far more likely.

Mumford's just a better all-round footballer at the moment in my eyes. If there are people watching the games who really think Blake is giving us more than Mumford overall then they are seeing things that I'm missing.

Anyway, we all should be glad that with Otto going down Mumford has taken his chance this year and shown a bit. I couldn't believe it when I heard they had rookied that fat bloke from the vfl

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I must admit, i have been a Blake supporter for a long time and still maintain that he has filled his role within the team. However saying this, i am now of the opinion that Mumford has surpassed Blake and it is time the match commitee recognise this. If only to give Blake the shake up he needs - that is, go back to the two's and impose yourself.

Mumford just seems to have too much upside, and even West (who in my opinion is also extremely unlucky to be on the outer) seems to warrant at least a trial selection.

Has anyone got any evidence on Big Bad Brad actually kicking a ball yet? Would ease my mind if somebody could post a training picture; He is still a key to our structure and can't wait to see him drift forward alongside Hawkins and Mooney!

 

[vinum coupe]

I am sure if the team tanked we would have access to all of those types of players.

To bad you have to come last to have first pick in the draft.

Hawthorn are a chance then

 

[Barabbas]

Hawthorn are a chance then

I'm loving the ring of 'Ninthorn'. But then they could be Tenthorn, Eleventhorn or Twelthorn, so we'll have to change it each week.

 

[CF]

Mumford was crap today from what I seen

 

[Frappe]

I thought Blake was better today - held his own against Brogan and Lade. Didn't think Mumford was as good as previous weeks.

 

[CF]

Josh Frasier has 9 hit outs against Sandilands. Puts our boys efforts in perspective

 

[Schmegg]

Josh Frasier has 9 hit outs against Sandilands. Puts our boys efforts in perspective

Josh Fraser is soft and a squibb, funnily enough he owned Blake when they have gone head to head (who could forget Fraser's 10 possie two goal first quarter effort against Blake in the 2007 H&A game, that was before they decided to put Ottens in the ruck late in the 1st).

Ironic in the fact that much like Blake he watches his opponent rather than the ball in ruck contests, which is why they are both soft!

 

[The Governor]

Re: Mumford or Blake to partner Ottens?

Hi Everyone,

The debate will continue.

After watching the ruck display of Mumford and Blake, the debate is going to continue about who is going to make way for Brad Ottens in a couple of weeks time.

Mark Blake, in my opinion, is an honest battler who will not develop into a match winning dominant ruckman in the mould of a Dean Brogan, Clark Keating, Brad Ottens and Darren Jolly. Even though he is competitive in the centre bounces and ruck on body against body contests, he does not punish the opposition with his around the ground work. HIs foot and hand disposal does not damage the opposition.

You got to have a look at his ruck performance against Hawthorn in last year's Grand Final. HE was badly beaten in the ruck. His centre bounce tap work is not as effective and damaging than Brad Ottens and his mobility around the ground has to be put under the microscope. I think he has put on too much upper body weight with little emphasis on mobility and speed.

IF you go back to the Damian Bourke era, Bourke was a damaging ruckman in the centre bounces and he brought in his teamates into the game ie Bews, Bairstow, Buddha and co. Bourke set the game up for the Cats.

Does Mark Blake set the game up for Geelong by giving us first use of the ball?

The answer is no and we were thrashed in the centre clearances against Port during the last quarter: 14-0!!

Matthew Primus was a damaging ruckman. Even though his kicking was not as effective as Steven King, his phyiscal presence and ability to dominate the centre bounces was the stand out factor in his game.

Shane Mumford is the best young ruck prospect at Geelong since Damian Bourke and John Mossop. He is a mobile big man who has a lot of room for improvement. He is a good kick of the football; he places an enormous amount of defensive pressure on his opponent and his centre bounce tapwork can improve remarkably if he is tutored by a good ruck coach.

In conclusion, Mark Blake has to be dropped to make way for Brad Ottens.

And, I am prepared to trade Mark Blake to another AFL Club for a key position player who can play at Centre Half Back or Centre Half Forward.

I would be prepared to trade Mark Blake to the Adelaide Crows for James Sellars.

I cannot see the Cats winning the 2009 flag with Mark Blake as the second ruckman. If he had the agility and mobility of his father Rod, who represented the club with distinction, I would not make this comment.

 

[The Governor]

Brian Cook and Neil Balme should send Stephen Wells to South Africa and Fiji to unearth another Natuini.

AFL clubs will have to think about recruiting young talented sportspeople from South Africa, Kenya and Fiji.

 

[wce_all_da_way]

Brian Cook and Neil Balme should send Stephen Wells to South Africa and Fiji to unearth another Natuini.

AFL clubs will have to think about recruiting young talented sportspeople from South Africa, Kenya and Fiji.

They are. I know West Coast are already in SA setting up football programs. Same with Freo. Will take awhile to get any talent though, Naita has played footy most of his life so it's a bit different.

 

[catfan1]

Re: Mumford or Blake to partner Ottens?

I agree would have Mummy in front by the size of Blakes nose. He is a very good tap ruckmen but Mummys presence and work around the ground is greater.

 

[jakethesnake]

Re: Mumford or Blake to partner Ottens?

Why this couldn't go in the other thread, I have no idea. Your opinion isn't valued any more than any other user.

 

[kellykellykelly]

Mumford was crap today from what I seen

Don't agree at all.

Mumford showed LOTS, again.

Was not phased by the big bodies of Lade and Brogan, took it right up to them physically and his tap work was effective. He even spent quality time down back today.

I think the Coach's have started to realise his improvement, Soon there will be no number one and number two ruckmen. Just two ruckman who share the load evenly. That is untill Ottens returns.

 

[BarryG]

Unfortunately for Blake Mumford has to get the nod when Ottens i back. He times his jump very well particularly against the taller rucks and offers more around the ground. Mummy will get in and dirty and has a reasonable enough disposal for a big fella.

 

[Just do something]

What i also noticed today was that Mumford started the first bounce i think after half time and 3qtr time. This is something i havent seen Bomber do as Blake always takes the first bounces.
Whay was the umpire throwing the ball up today by the way, it seemed starnge to me.

 

[foxdog50]

Mummy v Blake

Bugger it, I thought it would be best to do a poll and see who does everyone think. Cos I think a poll will be a best to show who people support....