Strategy The great, big ruckmen thread

[Vegas.]

The longer this thread goes on, the more I feel words are being wasted - it is looking more and more likely that both Blake AND Mumford will be the two that lead us into the finals.

 

[Hinkley29]

The longer this thread goes on, the more I feel words are being wasted - it is looking more and more likely that both Blake AND Mumford will be the two that lead us into the finals.

Sad but true

 

[Belisarius]

Sad but true

Absolutely my feeling as well.

 

[Richo75]

I thought the same thing after reading the latest news on Ottens!

 

[Premiers2007]

Grant Thomas Article

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx?blogentryid=431601&showcomments=true

Saints land the punch that counts

6/07/2009 9:53:00 AM
Grant Thomas

The anticipation was suffocating. Every person I have spoken to this week has had one thing in mind – the Saints taking on the Cats. There have also been the cynics who were willing a dull, boring, spectacle between these two heavyweights. Apart from a nervous opening by both teams where several mistakes were made, the game was an absolute cracker. Like two undefeated heavyweights shooting out lightning jabs that often fell short or completely missed, the game ebbed and flowed before some overhand rights from the Saints finally connected. They rocked the champ who became a little unsteady on his feet but it was not enough to deck him.

It was Riewoldt imposing himself on the contest with utter courage and fearlessness that sprang the Saints into gear and signalled the start of a dominant quarter. His mark set the scene for his players. Koschitzke became intimidating and Gardiner was springing around like a rookie. The Saints were definitely more assertive and showed more initiative whilst the Cats were reticent – somewhat hesitant – perhaps satisfied to wait and see what their assailant had to offer before counter-punching their way back into the contest. The Saints were in front and first to move initially which allowed them first use of the footy and the opportunity to dictate terms.

Inevitably, the Cats turned the heat up, however the Saints impressively withstood the pressure. The Cats resurgence came when they played on quickly and started to exert enormous pressure on the Saints ball carriers. More time and space was the key for the Cats and this was achieved through gut running and perseverance especially through the hard work of Bartel who was both influential and inspiring.

I still have reservations about my old mate Milney in big games and Farren Ray would want to lift his rating in these games to earn his place next time. I thought Gardiner was absolutely sensational and carried the load manfully. McEvoy had little chance and minimal affect. In fact it would have been significantly better to have had another midfield type in his place. The same could be said for the Geelong ruck pair of Blake and Mumford who were both ineffectual. Selection of ineffective giraffes is the bane of my frustration in the AFL. Blake’s decision to opt out of the final marking contest and allow Gardiner to take a sensational contested mark and convert the winning goal underpinned his lack of intensity and vigour.

Both teams can be proud of their efforts and have set the scene for an enthralling September especially when you also throw a rampaging Western Bulldogs and ultra competitive Collingwood into the equation.

Your thoughts?

Will Blake ever have the intensity and vigour or are you born with it?

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

It was Riewoldt imposing himself on the contest with utter courage and fearlessness that sprang the Saints into gear and signalled the start of a dominant quarter. His mark set the scene for his players.

I guess Cornflakes missed Jimmys gutsy mark across half back,which resulted in Coreys goal.Cornflakes really does have a major stiffy for Revolt.

Koschitzke became intimidating

 

[year of the cat]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I reckon West has to be at least given an opportunity to show his wares before the year is out. He is a competitive animal unlike Blake, demonstrated by his hip and shoulder to a saints player last year that nearly had him suspended. He has a good jump, moves well and has been in solid form in the VFL this year. I doubt whether he would have allowed Gardiner to jump at that contest last Sunday.

 

[CF]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

the guy is clearly biased towards St Kilda so you have to take that into consideration. It was a good win by the Saints I cannot argue with that but it was also an honorable loss for us considering the way we fought it out until the end. Let the media flogs like Thomas drool over the Saints for a while. Takes the spotlight off us a little.

 

[And_ROOS]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

Match should have ended a draw and in the eyes of most unbiased pundits it was as noone really gained anything.

Although being bias myself i believe we have the edge as the Saints threw everything they had at us, and i can't see their team possibly improving. Whereas we have better players to come in and we don't have question marks hanging above us in relation to playing on the MCG.

 

[Magnum27]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

Why would you guys be concerned with what this boofhead writes, the Saints could have lost and he would have still wrote something positive about them.

 

[re cat]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

Don't give a **** what he thinks. He never rated ruckmen anyway.

 

[Rustybugles]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

Another "Look what I did when I was there - they're now reaping the rewards" dose of Grant Thomas bilge. Best ignored if you can't laugh at his arrogance.
Perhaps Blake didn't step up but why tell us the obvious? Mumford shows some spark but Blake and Hawkins are pampered sons of .... and nothing like their fathers!!!!
I still think that Geelong gained a great deal from the loss.

 

[witsend]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I think it was a pretty fair review TBH.
I am still supremely confident of our chances. We gave the ladder leader at full strength and the top of their game, a 5 goal start with all the momentum on a ground they rarely stray from with a home crowd, without our best forward and No 1 Ruckman, while clearly keeping our best on-baller up our sleeve and putting a 2nd gamer smack in the MF rotation, and still got within a kick after trailing all day?
It was a coin-toss result which we lost.
Exactly where is the improvement from St Kilda gonna come from?
Even if (and it's a big if) their dream run with injuries continues, we have shown that our MF IS superior, we can hold Kosi and Rooboy to under 5-6 goals total (remembering they kick, on average, 40% of the Saint's goals), and we can comfortably get the ball inside 50 enough against their defensive zone to kick a winning score.
They would be a worthy opponent if we were both to make this year's GF, but they are to be respected, not feared.

 

[jakethesnake]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

He said the same things on Footy Classified on Monday, and I agree. Shouldn't just pick 200+ cm players, for the sole reason that they are giants and can get a few taps. They need to be able to add more than that, and Mumford has shown that he can do that.

 

[tiredcat]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

He said the same things on Footy Classified on Monday, and I agree. Shouldn't just pick 200+ cm players, for the sole reason that they are giants and can get a few taps. They need to be able to add more than that, and Mumford has shown that he can do that.

Are you Shane Mumford using a Noms Dre Plume. You never miss a chance to push the same wheelbarrow

 

[On the bench]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

If St.Kilda was playing the All Australian team he would pick them to win that as well,Grant Thomas the sacked non premiership ex coach!

 

[rizzo]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

Are you Shane Mumford using a Noms Dre Plume. You never miss a chance to push the same wheelbarrow

I was thinking the same thing.

He said the same things on Footy Classified on Monday, and I agree. Shouldn't just pick 200+ cm players, for the sole reason that they are giants and can get a few taps. They need to be able to add more than that, and Mumford has shown that he can do that.

Really apart from one 20 touch game Mumford has shown not alot more then Blake. He was smashed on Sunday by a C grade ruckman, I'm worried about both players to be honest.

 

[kellykellykelly]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I was thinking the same thing.



Really apart from one 20 touch game Mumford has shown not alot more then Blake. He was smashed on Sunday by a C grade ruckman, I'm worried about both players to be honest.

I feel like we are covering old ground here..

But again, i disagree and think Mumford is showing enough to prompt further selection.

He has this "mongrel" that i wish Blake and Hawkins both possessed.

Did you see when Mumford had a chance to hip and shoulder Gardiner?

He absolutely lined him up and crashed into him. That one snippet of play brought a smile to my face. That is what Ottens would have done, and what players with that fire and determination do.

I dare say Blake would have done the exact opposite.

Still plenty of work for Mummy to do though.

 

[Just do something]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I was thinking the same thing.



Really apart from one 20 touch game Mumford has shown not alot more then Blake. He was smashed on Sunday by a C grade ruckman, I'm worried about both players to be honest.

I dont believe he was smashed Rizzo. In watching the replay the other day the 3rd qtr were we started to make a move Mumford was very good.

He is not ready to ruck 70% of the game yet but id say he is showing signs and lets face it that was a pretty big game for him to play in let alone start first ruck as well.

 

[Claude Balls]

And the ridiculous overrating of Mark Blake's pure ruckwork continues.

To be fair, his defenders really have nothing else to go with so it's no wonder they are milking the highly fallible 'taps to advantage' stat for all it's worth.

 

[jakethesnake]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

That is pretty funny coming from you Rizzo, you are obsessed with the combination of West and Blake, which would be comically bad.

 

[tiredcat]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I think the times both ruckmen did well on Sunday seemed to coincide with the time Gardiner was off the ground which no one else has mentioned yet.
But all this argument is probably moot because there seems to be more and more doubt that Ottens will be a factor for finals football this year.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

I think it was a pretty fair review TBH.
I am still supremely confident of our chances. We gave the ladder leader at full strength and the top of their game, a 5 goal start with all the momentum on a ground they rarely stray from with a home crowd, without our best forward and No 1 Ruckman, while clearly keeping our best on-baller up our sleeve and putting a 2nd gamer smack in the MF rotation, and still got within a kick after trailing all day?
It was a coin-toss result which we lost.
Exactly where is the improvement from St Kilda gonna come from?
Even if (and it's a big if) their dream run with injuries continues, we have shown that our MF IS superior, we can hold Kosi and Rooboy to under 5-6 goals total (remembering they kick, on average, 40% of the Saint's goals), and we can comfortably get the ball inside 50 enough against their defensive zone to kick a winning score.
They would be a worthy opponent if we were both to make this year's GF, but they are to be respected, not feared.

Hate to intrude on your board, old boy, but with due respect, i'd like to put forward a few anti-Gellong-biased comments.

1). Saints aren't at full strength. King and Hudgeton are out, both good players. Obviously, not the same combo as SJ and Ottens, but there is still a question mark over Ottens.

2). Still a fair bit of improvement from our end. Milne was beaten badly, Ball only play 47% of game time (14 disposals), Gram, Schneider, Montagna and Ray had less possessions than their yearly average and Raph Clarke won't be playing.

3). You did hold Roo and Kosi to 5 goals.

4). St. Kilda inside 50's = 51, Geelong inside 50's = 53...you had more inside 50's.

5). My last point is that Geelong did play really, really well.
Chapman - 39 disp, 10 marks, 6 i50
Bartel - 37 disp, 7 tackles, 7 i50
Selwood - 30 disp, 7 tackles
Ablett - 27 disp, 8 tackles, 2 goals
Enright - 30 disp
Corey 27 disp

Anyway, don't want to stir the pot, and hope i haven't by highlighting the above.

All-in-all a ripping game, worthy of the build-up. I hope we do meet in the GF, it would be another classic match-up.

cheers

 

[Schmegg]

This just in, the "AFL Concise Dictionary" has just released new definitions to the term "No 2 Ruckman"

1. Being tall and ordinary.
2. Tap well to advantage according to Champion Data.
3. Stop short in contests.
4. Do nothing around the ground.
5. Sook when things don't go your way.

I think after reading this I am swayed, Mark Blake must be Geelong's No2 Ruckman!!

 

[Schmegg]

Re: Grant Thomas Article

That is pretty funny coming from you Rizzo, you are obsessed with the combination of West and Blake, which would be comically bad.

I agree there is a lot of support for Blakey amongst the moderation class. Sad that they feel that pumping up his flat tyres is going to make him a better player.