The Great Dasher Milburn

[MC Extra Dollop]

If we play 26 games in 2011 I'll be very, very happy.

Nah, that would suck. Would mean we'd be going into the GF without the benefit of a week off in the finals .

Thats some pretty harsh marking...Milburn not a champion?

'Champion' means different things to different people. For some, a 'champion' would be a team of the century, multiple B&F-type, which is fair enough. Milburn was/is an ultra-consistent, very good player for an extended period, but he's a rung below that standard for mine.

 

[you pick one]

Exactly.

Although we did not receive nothing in return for Kingy. We received the gift of getting Charlie Gardiner's contract off our books.

At that stage in Kingy's career it was a fair trade.

Probably just an over site but it also meant we were blessed with being able to keep Blake, which may have played a part in Mumford finishing up at Sydney ya big win all round

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Nah, that would suck. Would mean we'd be going into the GF without the benefit of a week off in the finals .



'Champion' means different things to different people. For some, a 'champion' would be a team of the century, multiple B&F-type, which is fair enough. Milburn was/is an ultra-consistent, very good player for an extended period, but he's a rung below that standard for mine.

Exactly...Champion is reserved for very elite performers who have proved over the course of their career that they are worthy of great respect from both peers and supporters. I think you will struggle to find any 300 gamers at any club who you would not classify as a champion. Milburn will hopefully achieve this prestigious mark and for giving the Geelong Football Club 300 games of top quality servitude he truly deserves the club champion tag, remembering we have only had 2 men achieve that mark before.

 

[Partridge]

Thats some pretty harsh marking...Milburn not a champion?

Nope. This site is about opinions and that's mine. For what it's worth, I'd say in the entire time I've been watching Geelong (that's from the mid-'80s to now), I've seen two genuine champions. Gary Ablett senior and Matthew Scarlett. Pre-requisite for me is 5 years plus at the highest standard.

That's certainly not a slur on Milburn either, but I wouldn't rank him up there with those two.

Anyways, this thread was never designed to be a justification for his 2011 position (there is no need to justify), it is more of an acknowledgment of what is truly a club champion that we have all had the honour of watching since 1997. 300 games would be a fitting tribute and would be an exciting time for a club that only has 2 such players in that category (so far!).

If Milburn can maintain form good enough to warrant 300 games, it would absolutely be a fitting tribute. Just can't see his body letting him get there, let alone form.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Exactly...Champion is reserved for very elite performers who have proved over the course of their career that they are worthy of great respect from both peers and supporters. I think you will struggle to find any 300 gamers at any club who you would not classify as a champion. Milburn will hopefully achieve this prestigious mark and for giving the Geelong Football Club 300 games of top quality servitude he truly deserves the club champion tag, remembering we have only had 2 men achieve that mark before.

I guess the other way of looking at it would be using the AFL Hall of Fame/Legends as an example. Now, if the Geelong FC had a similar set-up to that, would Milburn be elected as a Hall of Famer? Absolutely...as soon as he's eligible. But would he be named as a Legend, one of the top 10% of players in the Geelong Hall of Fame (considering his contemporaries like Bartel, Ablett, Corey, Scarlett, Ling, Chapman, Johnson, Selwood, Enright, Harley and King would probably all be rated at least Milburn's equal in contribution to the club and most of them higher - Selwood by the end of his career)? Probably not. That's the argument to your position. I don't know which side I'm on, to be honest.

 

[vinum coupe]

Meh, stars, superstars, elite players, champions, club stalwarts. They're all pegged differently by each person. It's just opinion.

I've been going to the footy since 76 and there would be less than a dozen players from Geelong who I would regard as champions over that period.

Turner,
Ablett Snr
Ablett Jnr
Scarlett

Then?

Maybe G. Hocking

 

[vinum coupe]

Actually, I have changed my mind.
I'm thinking of it the wrong way around.

I'm probably only selecting guys who I believe were up there as AFL/VFL champions.
If I was only thinking of club champions I'd fit another 15 in.

 

[you pick one]

Exactly...Champion is reserved for very elite performers who have proved over the course of their career that they are worthy of great respect from both peers and supporters. I think you will struggle to find any 300 gamers at any club who you would not classify as a champion. Milburn will hopefully achieve this prestigious mark and for giving the Geelong Football Club 300 games of top quality servitude he truly deserves the club champion tag, remembering we have only had 2 men achieve that mark before.

I tend to lean towards Dollop on this one in my time of watching the Cats only a hand full of players spring to mind as being true champions in MY opinion.Farmer,Wade,Couch and the two Garry's but it's only a hairs breath back to the Stonehams,G.Hocking,Riccardi,and many more not including present day Geelong players,I think Dasher would be quite happy to sit on that second run.

 

[Partridge]

I tend to lean towards Dollop on this one in my time of watching the Cats only a hand full of players spring to mind as being true champions in MY opinion.Farmer,Wade,Couch and the two Garry's but it's only a hairs breath back to the Stonehams,G.Hocking,Riccardi,and many more not including present day Geelong players,I think Dasher would be quite happy to sit on that second run.

I'd have Milburn ahead of Stoneham personally. Of those four I'd go in order Hocking, Milburn, Stoneham, Riccardi.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Splitting Hairs really....

At least give Milburn the club champion acknowledgment. He deserves to be acknowledged for his efforts.

For the record, i would have Milburn's impact ahead of Stoneham and Riccardi. As a back pocket you don't get the recognition of a midfielder or a CHF, but Dasher has been doing us proud every year since 1997. I think if you looked back particularly at the period of 99-2003 when we were fairly ordinary it was Dash who was part of a very select group keeping us competitive.

Anyways, whatever you call him (and i do maintain he is at least a club champion) then hopefully we can all agree on what a fine servant of the Geelong Football Club he has been and reaching a 300 game milestone is a fantastic acheivement in anyone's language.

 

[Hinkley29]

I tend to lean towards Dollop on this one in my time of watching the Cats only a hand full of players spring to mind as being true champions in MY opinion.Farmer,Wade,Couch and the two Garry's but it's only a hairs breath back to the Stonehams,G.Hocking,Riccardi,and many more not including present day Geelong players,I think Dasher would be quite happy to sit on that second run.

G. Hocking was a far better player than Couch.

 

[Partridge]

G. Hocking was a far better player than Couch.

Yep I'd agree with that. Well spotted.

 

[Belisarius]

G. Hocking was a far better player than Couch.

Absolutely agree. Best mid-fielder GFC has had until Gary Jnr showed up.

Couch was also a very good player however but not quite as good as Buddha.

If people rate Riccardi (who was also a very good player) - I would add Bairstow - who I think was a better player than Riccardi.

And for my assessment of Milburn and Stoneham - well I love Milburn but he is no Stoneham before he broke his leg. Stoneham was a gun and could play both ends of the ground if needed.

Milburn has proven over a long period of time (one of my criteria used to assess a player) he is a great competitor and player for the GFC. Let's hope he has a couple of sons.

 

[year of the cat]

Whilst I would rate G.Hocking above Couch he is not "far better" than him.

As someone said earlier Milburn is definitely a "club champion" but not a champion of the AFL. He would have to come into consideration if a "best 22 of GFC" was now re-done.

Having said all that I definitely think his time was up at the end of 2010. He could have retired after a reasonable season of form albeit that he was badly exposed in the finals. His lack of pace now on the bigger grounds is a concern as it is in finals. I have no doubt that in the depths of a cold, wet winter he will still be a very useful contributor but that will be about it.

Furthermore there is no way that he should be given games at the expense of T.Hunt whose inclusion towards the end of 2010 was a revelation. Thompson's dropping of him for the finals was one of his worst decisions of the year (along with apparently not talking to G.Ablett ).

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Whilst I would rate G.Hocking above Couch he is not "far better" than him.

As someone said earlier Milburn is definitely a "club champion" but not a champion of the AFL. He would have to come into consideration if a "best 22 of GFC" was now re-done.

Having said all that I definitely think his time was up at the end of 2010. He could have retired after a reasonable season of form albeit that he was badly exposed in the finals. His lack of pace now on the bigger grounds is a concern as it is in finals. I have no doubt that in the depths of a cold, wet winter he will still be a very useful contributor but that will be about it.

Furthermore there is no way that he should be given games at the expense of T.Hunt whose inclusion towards the end of 2010 was a revelation. Thompson's dropping of him for the finals was one of his worst decisions of the year (along with apparently not talking to G.Ablett ).

Since when did Taylor Hunt become a back pocket capable of defensively minding both tall and small options???? Not sure of the logic on this one....unless you are talking about neglecting our defense for another outside winger?

Stoneham was a great player for about 2 seasons but 2 seasons is definitely not equal to 14.

And definitely, if a Geelong all time best 22 was being picked right now Darren Milburn would be a definite inclusion, no butts at all.

 

[Belisarius]

Since when did Taylor Hunt become a back pocket capable of defensively minding both tall and small options???? Not sure of the logic on this one....unless you are talking about neglecting our defense for another outside winger?

Stoneham was a great player for about 2 seasons but 2 seasons is definitely not equal to 14.

And definitely, if a Geelong all time best 22 was being picked right now Darren Milburn would be a definite inclusion, no butts at all.

I think GB Barry had more than 2 great seasons for the club. Sure his possible greatness was cut short by a serious leg injury - but he was the second best CHF in the league for quite a few seasons.

I agree that Milburn would make our best 22 over the last 40-50 years.

 

[you pick one]

G. Hocking was a far better player than Couch.

Realy spliting hairs now. but I gave the nod to Couch,only because of Hockings poor finals record.

but I can live with it either way.

No Couch no Geelong

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

And definitely, if a Geelong all time best 22 was being picked right now Darren Milburn would be a definite inclusion, no butts at all.

The competition for spots is red-hot. Ian Nankervis played 321 games, won three B&Fs, captained the club...and he's an emergency. Any way you cut it, his individual achievements are much more impressive than Dasher's.

Here's the team, which I think was selected in about 2002.

Backs: B. Smith, G. Todd, J. Newman
Half Backs: D. Grigg, R. Hickey, J. Slater
Centres: M. Turner, E. Greeves, L. Turner
Half Forwards: G. Ablett Sr, F. Flanagan, B. Davis
Forwards: H. Young, D. Wade, P. Pianto
Followers: G. Farmer, G. Hocking, B. Goggin
Interchange: D. Clarke, P. Couch, A. Eason, L. Hardiman
Emergencies: I. Nankervis, J. Collins, T. Quinn, C. Rankin

Now, add the blokes who've made their names since then with multiple premierships, multiple AAs and B&Fs/Brownlows like Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Scarlett, Chapman, Johnson, King, Harley and Enright and I don't see any way that Milburn forces his way in. I mean, if Ian Nankervis can't make the 22...

 

[darren forssman]

Stephen King says hallo!!!!!

i thought he would have said:

herrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeee'ssssss johnnnnnnyyyyyyyyy.

 

[you pick one]

i thought he would have said:

herrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeee'ssssss johnnnnnnyyyyyyyyy.

Don't even know why I initially responded to that,don't realy get it.

 

[vinum coupe]

Riccardi can't be held in the same breath as a bunch of the players mentioned.
Great servant yes, nowhere near a club champion

 

[vinum coupe]

Since when did Taylor Hunt become a back pocket capable of defensively minding both tall and small options???? Not sure of the logic on this one....unless you are talking about neglecting our defense for another outside winger?

Stoneham was a great player for about 2 seasons but 2 seasons is definitely not equal to 14.

And definitely, if a Geelong all time best 22 was being picked right now Darren Milburn would be a definite inclusion, no butts at all.

Now you have fallen off your rocker.

And Stoneham may have only had two great seasons, but they were elite.

 

[Belisarius]

The competition for spots is red-hot. Ian Nankervis played 321 games, won three B&Fs, captained the club...and he's an emergency. Any way you cut it, his individual achievements are much more impressive than Dasher's.

Here's the team, which I think was selected in about 2002.

Backs: B. Smith, G. Todd, J. Newman
Half Backs: D. Grigg, R. Hickey, J. Slater
Centres: M. Turner, E. Greeves, L. Turner
Half Forwards: G. Ablett Sr, F. Flanagan, B. Davis
Forwards: H. Young, D. Wade, P. Pianto
Followers: G. Farmer, G. Hocking, B. Goggin
Interchange: D. Clarke, P. Couch, A. Eason, L. Hardiman
Emergencies: I. Nankervis, J. Collins, T. Quinn, C. Rankin

Now, add the blokes who've made their names since then with multiple premierships, multiple AAs and B&Fs/Brownlows like Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Scarlett, Chapman, Johnson, King, Harley and Enright and I don't see any way that Milburn forces his way in. I mean, if Ian Nankervis can't make the 22...

Need have a team for the best 22 over the last 20-40 years - as there are too many fans who have no idea about half the players in this team above.

No way you can easily judge different players form different eras.

And for my 2 cents - another often injured Ruckman - Damian Bourke was a better player than King.

Ablett Jnr. and Scarlett I think would make the best ever team of the GFC.

If Chapman, S. Johnson and Enright have a few more really good seasons they would be contenders also.

If I was picking the best team over the last say 20-25 years - Milburn would get the nod down back.

 

[darren forssman]

The SuperCoach points are a good reflection of a players worth. They take everything into account and then adjust them so that the average for each player is about 66 points. If he's averaging 99 or something that is way above average. That indicates that he rarely turns it over.

what if players are just playing kick to kick, as they so often do in the geelong defence.

as vc said, you obviously didnt see too many cats games.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

The competition for spots is red-hot. Ian Nankervis played 321 games, won three B&Fs, captained the club...and he's an emergency. Any way you cut it, his individual achievements are much more impressive than Dasher's.

Here's the team, which I think was selected in about 2002.

Backs: B. Smith, G. Todd, J. Newman
Half Backs: D. Grigg, R. Hickey, J. Slater
Centres: M. Turner, E. Greeves, L. Turner
Half Forwards: G. Ablett Sr, F. Flanagan, B. Davis
Forwards: H. Young, D. Wade, P. Pianto
Followers: G. Farmer, G. Hocking, B. Goggin
Interchange: D. Clarke, P. Couch, A. Eason, L. Hardiman
Emergencies: I. Nankervis, J. Collins, T. Quinn, C. Rankin

Now, add the blokes who've made their names since then with multiple premierships, multiple AAs and B&Fs/Brownlows like Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Scarlett, Chapman, Johnson, King, Harley and Enright and I don't see any way that Milburn forces his way in. I mean, if Ian Nankervis can't make the 22...

I have been watching Geelong actively since the mid-80s' and admittedly i missed a lot of good players in the former era, we still need to remember that between 63-89 we were a mid range side.

During our most succesful period 07-09 of these last 25 years Darren Milburn has been a key part, not only in the succesfull teams but as a nucleus and building block of the side that formed its origins in roughly 1999 (when he became a regular senior). In my time as a football fan i have definitely not seen a better half back / pocket player wearing the hoops then Milburn (Scarlett is obviously is number 1 choice Full Back). We had no defense in the 80's and Early 90's, our team was shit in the late 90's and then we developed the best defense going around from as early as 2002...Milburn was integral to this. As such he would be a very easy selection for me in our all-time team. Out of the list you mentioned, King, Ling, Corey, Johnson, Harley and Enright would not be candidates....stiff, but not quite given the competition for spots in their areas.... Milburn has owned his position for 14 years and as far as i can tell is definitely within the top echelon over the course of the entire clubs history for that position.

Interesting concepts about Stoneham. He was a very good player and particularly good in tandem with Ablett and Brownless in our forward line heyday's.... 94' i think he broke his leg? Which definitely curtailed his performance afterwards....Elite yes.