The Jill Meagher case: please read notice in OP

[DivideandMultiply]

What I find also weird is where the body was dumped.

Assuming the person (whomever that may be) who dumped the body may not be familiar with the area, or life outside of prison, it seems a very long distance to drive and a very specific location to pick.

It makes me think that the attack was less than random. It also makes me worry that these are not the actions of a person who has engaged in this behaviour for the first time.

 

[Clay Davis]

Yeah, I can see the sense in giving them all the relevant information under a trust arrangement with the caution that if they publish they will be prosecuted like Hinch.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Yeah, I can see the sense in giving them all the relevant information under a trust arrangement with the caution that if they publish they will be prosecuted like Hinch.

It makes sense. Also at some stage there may be an inevitable shit storm re how was such a person was allowed to exist and operate in the community at large, getting the media on side may be important in terms of PR management for the Victorian Police.

I do wonder though if any imagined future scrutiny makes it less likely that they will investigate any potential links to other crimes.

 

[grizzlym]

Well, we obviously know there are many more details. But what I can't get out of my head is the absolutely shattered look on Hamish Fitzsimmons face on Lateline after he came out of the closed media briefing. And the words, not spoken by him but other journos, "much more to this case" and "horrifying". One look at his face and the emotional state he was in and you know there's a lot more and it's not just 'the missing pieces'.

 

[DrVanNostrand]

Well, we obviously know there are many more details. But what I can't get out of my head is the absolutely shattered look on Hamish Fitzsimmons face on Lateline after he came out of the closed media briefing. And the words, not spoken by him but other journos, "much more to this case" and "horrifying". One look at his face and the emotional state he was in and you know there's a lot more and it's not just 'the missing pieces'.

I saw this report as well. He just looked sick and was trembling slightly.

I think we're looking at what was in this house, what was in his car, or what CCTV captured closer towards Hope St.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Well, we obviously know there are many more details. But what I can't get out of my head is the absolutely shattered look on Hamish Fitzsimmons face on Lateline after he came out of the closed media briefing. And the words, not spoken by him but other journos, "much more to this case" and "horrifying". One look at his face and the emotional state he was in and you know there's a lot more and it's not just 'the missing pieces'.

Yeah that really concerns me.

Theoretically if a person had a history of this kind of behaviour, you imagine that a premeditated crime of this nature would be exceptionally unpleasant.

If it was truly random though, there is a history of individuals that may be involved in a gym culture and certain kinds of substance abuse ending up being involved in particularly brutal behaviour.

But to get that kind of reaction without having yet discovered the body indicates there was either photographic or video evidence, or that the scene of the crime had been discovered, or a particularly bad confession or witness testimony.

 

[mayhem]

What is the general consensus here? That there was another person involved, but hasn't been identified yet? Possibly part of reason information is still being withheld.

 

[grizzlym]

Guys, we are putting together a crime board - current, historical etc etc. It will be more than likely a stand alone board

Just want to get the small matter of the Grand Final out of the way first.

And, to do it right, am interested in your thoughts and the like about the board, content and stuff like that.

So I'd like to set up some sort of discussion to chart the path of this board.

If you're interested in being involved, post a message on my profile and I'll get back to you.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

What I worry about though is that VicPol will be less inclined to follow up potential leads or links to other crimes.

Once an initial grace period is over and things like the "social media" response are well and truly exhausted as topics for discussion, non Victorian talk back radio will get onto issues like sentencing and how/why the accused was able to exist in the community. Likewise things like indentikits for 2 (or 3) other assaults which may or may not bear any resemblance to the accused will be discussed in length. I think the judicial system and possibly Victorian Police may come under some intense scrutiny. So I hope they go the route of being especially active, instead of closing up shop and taking a defensive and tight lipped approach.

 

[tandino]

Well, we obviously know there are many more details. But what I can't get out of my head is the absolutely shattered look on Hamish Fitzsimmons face on Lateline after he came out of the closed media briefing. And the words, not spoken by him but other journos, "much more to this case" and "horrifying". One look at his face and the emotional state he was in and you know there's a lot more and it's not just 'the missing pieces'.

From what I saw he appears to be a class act who did not deserve the low sniping from one Jill Singer on Twitter on that night.

 

[Clay Davis]

I doubt there's more too this case than the facts we already know. Maybe a few grisly details that would be horrific to hear, but i don't think the suspect had assistance or did anything that was unusually extreme for this kind of crime.

I think the journalists reaction of horror is because it happened to one of them. Usually the horrible murders they cover happen to junkies, criminals, and other people who are out of the ordinary.

 

[Hendersloane]

What I find also weird is where the body was dumped.

Assuming the person (whomever that may be) who dumped the body may not be familiar with the area, or life outside of prison, it seems a very long distance to drive and a very specific location to pick.

It makes me think that the attack was less than random. It also makes me worry that these are not the actions of a person who has engaged in this behaviour for the first time.

I found this as well disturbing when the news came out about where the body was found, as well as the fact the person was able to lead police straight back to it the night they were arrested...
Ever since seeing the CCTV footage from the bridal shop showing the person walking past quickly first in the direction of Hope St (possibly after spotting the victim, goes to check street is clear for planned attack/has car waiting there), then back slower, then back with Jill... it's just growing more and more likely in my mind this was at least partly pre-meditated and there's every chance this isn't the first time.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I doubt there's more too this case than the facts we already know. Maybe a few grisly details that would be horrific to hear, but i don't think the suspect had assistance or did anything that was unusually extreme for this kind of crime.

I think the journalists reaction of horror is because it happened to one of them. Usually the horrible murders they cover happen to junkies, criminals, and other people who are out of the ordinary.

This is certainly possible and I hope you are right.

As for assistance I don't know, two witnesses report seeing additional cars at the house and one on Sydney rd reported seeing a car swerve towards her.

The nature of the reaction and the existence of an accomplice are separate things.

 

[King Elvis]

I think a full or partial criminal history was displayed on screen on Channel 9 in Queensland.

It is only Victoria where these reports and the photo of the accused cannot be shown.

Apparently media in every state but Vic have reported on his past convictions; some have shown unedited photos as well.

Old media out if touch with the times - or...?

And I suspect the briefing covered two things; specifics of the attack which may have been horrific..

And the distinct possibility that this might've just been the first domino. With his history and a number of unsolved crimes in the area matching his description, I'm guessing they're pursuing a bunch of other avenues as well. I also agree that there is a strong possibility other people were involved - and the information given to the media may have included a request for them to assist with some deliberate misdirection.

There would be a small level of damage control as well - as soon as the alleged perps record was opened, they would've known the intense, visceral reaction it would create.

 

[Clay Davis]

This is certainly possible and I hope you are right.

As for assistance I don't know, two witnesses report seeing additional cars at the house and one on Sydney rd reported seeing a car swerve towards her.

The nature of the reaction and the existence of an accomplice are separate things.

As we know from Dan Gregson's statement, witness perceptions of events are not entirely accurate, even if they are reasonably accurate. It is possible that further people were involved, but I have massive doubts about this. The mention of multiple cars at 2am from neighbours is too vague. Any car making noise at 2am is too many cars, so it would be easy for a sleep disturbed neighbour to confuse them into multiple cars.

If there is an accomplice involved, I would suppose it was a silent accomplice - that is someone who aided the suspect, but did not get directly involved in the crime.

 

[mayhem]

I hate to think if there was another party involved still at large, just finding it hard to totally dismiss especially more than one car arriving at his residence at 2am. From Hope st which is only a few minutes to Coburg.

 

[tandino]

Apparently media in every state but Vic have .................................................... some have shown unedited photos as well.

Old media out if touch with the times - or...?

I wouldn't be saying that if I were you.

Can't be too careful.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Apparently media in every state but Vic have reported on.....

Old media out if touch with the times - or...?

They can't do it here legally. Due to the pervasiveness of social media, discouraging spreading or discussing these facts also helps guard against locals unwittingly breaking the law or jeopardising a criminal trial.

Exclusivity is also a big part of the news media. It diminishes the value of their content and therefore ratings/sales/website hits if the information is freely available (which is probably the real reason behind a lot of the media tutt tutting).

Also I think there is an element of milking the social media angle. The big bad social media trap is still a very popular topic for columnists, reporters and writers. I suppose outrage sells, no matter how contrived or hypocritical it is.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

As we know from Dan Gregson's statement, witness perception of events is not entirely accurate, even if they are reasonably accurate. It is possible that further people were involved, but I have massive doubts about this. The mention of multiple cars at 2am from neighbours is too vague. Any car making noise at 2am is too many cars, so it would be easy for a sleep disturbed neighbour to confuse them into multiple cars.

If there is an accomplice involved, I would suppose it was a silent accomplice - that is someone who aided the suspect, but did not get directly involved in the crime.

Definitely possible and maybe probable.

It is not just one witness though raising suspicions about an additional car or persons, hence why I am curious. If there are other suspects, I doubt we will know until the police make an arrest or fail to locate said individuals after an extended period of searching.

 

[Clay Davis]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

 

[Footy Dunce]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...an-ernest-bayley/story-e6frg6nf-1226483787739

Changed his name by deed poll 12 years ago.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

A telling consideration was that as his face was not shown clearly, the release of the footage could not be seen to bias a jury if the hoodie suspect was ultimately charged.

The 5 missing seconds of footage?

Glad that it says they are following up other claims of harassment.

 

[Simple Jack]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

The poor guy's soul must be destroyed after missing that text.

 

[grizzlym]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

Fantastic story, I mean, well-written and informative.

 

[tandino]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

Eventually her handbag was found in Hope Street but police were sure it had not been there when they checked the area on Saturday, meaning it had been planted some time later.
This would have initially indicated the offender may have lived nearby. (The reality was a local found the handbag in the lane on Saturday morning then returned on Sunday evening to put it back as a result of the media publicity.)

Well that clears that up.​