List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

[Capriati]

Lucky for us it seems that Geelong are going to be trying to negotiate a number of trades bringing players in during trade week also. That means that the option of running the clock down to the last day of trade week and playing chicken with us is probably ruled out. They need to at least know what picks they have to play with to negotiate trades for the other players they want.

Personally i think that there window is now over. Selwood and Dangerfield, while still brilliant in patches, are not the players they were. Ablett is well and truly past his best and has given them much less than they would have hoped for. Taylor is on his last legs as an AFL player. Hawkins is their only key forward and he is past 30 also. I think they will buy more players and that will prop them up in lower half of the 8 for another 2 seasons or so. Then the bottom will totally fall out and they will sink to the bottom 4.

Does this serve to explain their behaviour? Is it a last gaps, act of desperation?

 

[DJMac]

Genuine question, to cut through the malice - what do you guys think he is worth right now? Not what will we get, or what you will give up, but what do you think he is worth?

Seen a few ridiculous suggestions from both sides of the fence, but I value him in the Treloar, Shiel, Neale range.

- Top 5 in the Brownlow (37 votes in his first 2 seasons)
- Runner up Carji Greeves Medalist
- AA 2019
- Most likely 2019 Carji Greeves Medalist
- Proven finals performer
- Goal kicking mid
- Polled 7 votes more than your best mid Yeo, on 17 votes (this isn't a slight, just an example of his quality - I rate Yeo pretty highly)
- Injury free thus far
- Ready-made mid, with little development needed

Chris Scott's comments, while incendiary to others, were an obvious troll (given he said & Dustin Martin). He also said that he doesn't see a way a trade gets done. But I would say that is because his valuation of Kelly is so high compared to others.

Not gonna get into the endless cyclical arguments about previous player movements, as its been done to death. Ablett's sister died, Dahl was a free agent after 8 years of service, Rohan was unceremoniously pushed out, and Steven seems to have mental issues outside of football. Dangerfield went for 9, 28 and Gore. I'd be happy for something similar for Kelly (given that was unders for a player of Danger's quality).

What are your thoughts? This is not meant to be a sh*t fight, as there's too much of that floating around. Just want a civil conversation, without any of the rhetoric and hyperbole.

From the Geelong board

Top 5 in the Brownlow, as predicted. Polled 7 more votes on 24, than the closest Eagle in Yeo on 17. But sure, Kelly is worth sweet f a. Ridiculous West Coast supporters

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Just wanted to say, that we were known as the fairest traders of all clubs, before last years debacle. Scott's public posturing has undermined that a bit, but for years, we used to pay overs for players that we wanted - Henderson, Stanley, Clark, Ottens etc. We also let players go for nothing, constantly - Chappy, Johnson, Vardy, Christensen, Caddy etc. Dangerfield is a unique one, and one that I don't argue we did well out of. But Adelaide got more out of us than compensation. I expect much the same this time. Contrary to some other posters, I think 9, 28 and a fringe player is pretty close

Don't take this the wrong way. I am not one of those posters who wants to go a personal attack binge on opposition posters. But on your points, i would ask you the following.

How are we going to give you pick 9? We don't have pick 9.

Didn't your club (very publicly) fly a contingent to Adelaide to lobby Boak from Port to request a trade to you half way through the season? And weren't you roundly criticised by the whole rest of the comp for doing it?

 

[Capriati]

Just wanted to say, that we were known as the fairest traders of all clubs, before last years debacle. Scott's public posturing has undermined that a bit, but for years, we used to pay overs for players that we wanted - Henderson, Stanley, Clark, Ottens etc. We also let players go for nothing, constantly - Chappy, Johnson, Vardy, Christensen, Caddy etc. Dangerfield is a unique one, and one that I don't argue we did well out of. But Adelaide got more out of us than compensation. I expect much the same this time. Contrary to some other posters, I think 9, 28 and a fringe player is pretty close

Your post history says otherwise.

The sentiment you've expressed about the trade on the GFC is quite different.

 

[Wedgetailed Westerner]

His comments around "I need to quash the idea that player choose whether they continue their career" was just weird.

He is so Machiavellian

Hmmmm just like Dangerfield got to choose and Rohan and Ablett. Hypocritical farkin campaigners. He's lucky he lives so far away in West New Zealand

 

[Shadow89]

From the Geelong board

Wasn't saying that was all West Coast supporters, just the 'ridiculous ones'

I said in my comment at the start that there have been some 'ridiculous suggestions' on both sides of the fence, but I'm sick of all the malice and contempt. Hence why I came over here to try and get an understanding from your point of view. I'm not gonna get into a sh*t fight with anyone, I'm just sick of all the fronting and posturing from both sides. It seems most reasonable posters aren't looking to do ridiculous trades, either way.

 

[Shadow89]

Your post history says otherwise.

The sentiment you've expressed about the trade on the GFC is quite different.

Because like a lot of your supporters, I'm frustrated and I've taken a certain view based on a lot of the commentary on the main board. I've come over to this board, to try and gauge if the sentiment if different. I could also say the same about your posting on here, and on our board.

There have been ridiculous suggestions, and there has been a lot of rhetoric and hyperbole. After I posted that comment, I came over here to see if I was wrong about the majority. So far, I can say that I am.

 

[Keys]

Your post history says otherwise.

The sentiment you've expressed about the trade on the GFC is quite different.

He can say what he likes on the Geelong board just as we can say what we like here. Geelong supporters are welcome to post here to have a discussion provided they do it respectfully

 

[Capriati]

Because like a lot of your supporters, I'm frustrated and I've taken a certain view based on a lot of the commentary on the main board. I've come over to this board, to try and gauge if the sentiment if different. I could also say the same about your posting on here, and on our board.

The sentiment is due to many Catters creating bad will because they are fearful of losing TK because they believe they are about to drop out of contention.

What in my post history says I am posting one thing here and one thing on your board?

All I have said here about Catters is there is a small group of GFC supporters (mainly just strangecat) that are abusive and prone to meltdowns.

 

[Capriati]

He can say what he likes on the Geelong board just as we can say what we like here. Geelong supporters are welcome to post here to have a discussion provided they do it respectfully

I wasn't telling him to get out, I post on the Geelong board fairly often. But I don't say one thing here and a totally different thing there.

 

[Shadow89]

I don't care if you are frustrated. You're being a disingenuous troll.

What in my post history says I am posting one thing here and one thing on your board?

All I have said here about Catters is there is a small group of GFC supporters (mainly just strangecat) that are abusive and prone to meltdowns.

I'm actually not, and I'm usually one of the more measured posters on bigfooty. You've taken a stance on me, but it's not correct. I realized I was getting caught up in the minutia, so I tried to remove myself from the 'bubble' so to speak, and come over and see whether I was looking at things in a biased fashion.

I'm not being a 'disingenuous troll' and I take exception to you labelling me as such. I haven't tried to start anything, and I'm not looking to. If you want to view it that way, that's your prerogative. Sometimes, however, a lot of us can get caught up in the 'circle jerk' behaviour of our boards and our fan base. I was trying to get away from that.

I've got a lot of guys from the fantasy board, who are West Coast supporters, who can vouch that I'm not a troll and I don't start sh*t.

 

[Capriati]

Because like a lot of your supporters, I'm frustrated and I've taken a certain view based on a lot of the commentary on the main board. I've come over to this board, to try and gauge if the sentiment if different. I could also say the same about your posting on here, and on our board.

There have been ridiculous suggestions, and there has been a lot of rhetoric and hyperbole. After I posted that comment, I came over here to see if I was wrong about the majority. So far, I can say that I am.

I still don't know what you're talking about with this?

 

[Benny78]

Good stuff by Scott. Nothing against West Coast but Kelly & his manager clearly planned a profitable move last year with no regards to Geelong. Ruling out Freo and him "going home" is all about cash. Geelong/Scott will do anything to stop the plan.

Kelly needs to play another 6 years at Geelong to become eleigible for free agency. Or Geelong can trade him (don't see why they will) or he can walk into the draft like any player.

 

[Capriati]

\

I've been waiting all year to go on their board to read all the melts about us refusing to entertain a trade. All year they've been talking about him like he's some free agent they didn't overlook for 5 years.

Good stuff by Scott. Nothing against West Coast but Kelly & his manager clearly planned a profitable move last year with no regards to Geelong. Ruling out Freo and him "going home" is all about cash. Geelong/Scott will do anything to stop the plan.

Kelly needs to play another 6 years at Geelong to become eleigible for free agency. Or Geelong can trade him (don't see why they will) or he can walk into the draft like any player.

 

[Keys]

Good stuff by Scott. Nothing against West Coast but Kelly & his manager clearly planned a profitable move last year with no regards to Geelong. Ruling out Freo and him "going home" is all about cash. Geelong/Scott will do anything to stop the plan.

Kelly needs to play another 6 years at Geelong to become eleigible for free agency. Or Geelong can trade him (don't see why they will) or he can walk into the draft like any player.

Scott’s a peanut

You have that in common with him

 

[Shadow89]

The sentiment is due to many Catters creating bad will because they are fearful of losing TK because they believe they are about to drop out of contention.

What in my post history says I am posting one thing here and one thing on your board?

All I have said here about Catters is there is a small group of GFC supporters (mainly just strangecat) that are abusive and prone to meltdowns.

Would you not argue that there are West Coast supporters creating ill will, because some outliers believe they should get him for peanuts? It's the same sort of argument. The ill will on our side isn't because we're upset about him going, it's because we're upset that some of your supporter base has chased him since day one.

With that said, I don't subscribe to either side. I think there's idiots everywhere, and I think there's been so much bluster that hasn't been reflective of the general consensus. I thought some of the comments saying 'a top 5 in the Brownlow

I still don't know what you're talking about with this?

Those are the few that I see, that are in contrast to how you post on our board. However, I understand that our posting changes based on where we feel more comfortable (have to act more respectful on other boards etc.) It's not being disingenuous, but you are right that I did say one thing and post another here in a close timeframe. It looks like a contrast, but really, it's me realizing that I've bought into too much of this feud...so I've come across here to do something about it and get some perspective from the other side. Much like it seems like you've tried to do on our board.

 

[FatPizza]

Scott saying he can't see how a trade gets done? Well lucky for Tim he won't be contracted eh?

 

[Benny78]

I still don't know what you're talking about with this?

You're not allowed to quote other people off club boards and "call them out" for some reason. It's worth 5 points! I got banned for doing it (after watching a mod make an entire thread doing it to essendon supporters on bay 13)

 

[Quinz]

Dangerfield is an ok price point- although Kelly is no Dangerfield, it was unders for Danger and player values have become inflated relative to draft picks in recent years.

So 9+28 for Danger. 13+22 is equivalent according to the Draft Value Index.

I think that will be less than Geelong want, but it is the same as what they paid for Danger.

We may be pushed into 2 firsts, but 13+22 is fair. If it takes 2 firsts you’d expect a third back probably. I’d be ok with either outcome.

 

[Capriati]

Would you not argue that there are West Coast supporters creating ill will, because some outliers believe they should get him for peanuts? It's the same sort of argument. The ill will on our side isn't because we're upset about him going, it's because we're upset that some of your supporter base has chased him since day one.

With that said, I don't subscribe to either side. I think there's idiots everywhere, and I think there's been so much bluster that hasn't been reflective of the general consensus. I thought some of the comments saying 'a top 5 in the Brownlow



I didn't really want to get into it with going through the posting history, but a few of your posts on the previous posts such as


Those are the few that I see, that are in contrast to how you post on our board. However, I understand that our posting changes based on where we feel more comfortable (have to act more respectful on other boards etc.) It's not being disingenuous, but you are right that I did say one thing and post another here in a close timeframe. It looks like a contrast, but really, it's me realizing that I've bought into too much of this feud...so I've come across here to do something about it and get some perspective from the other side.

That is not different at all. The post I made was in response to to a poster here saying that TK needed to go hard and tell GFC that he would go to the draft if needed. My comment is actually saying that TK is too decent.

So please, find me an example of where I have said one thing here and another thing on the GFC board? I'll wait.....

 

[Art OF war]

Chris doesn’t want his window to close, which is understandable. However, making an emotionally charged statement threatening the draft doesn’t endeavour your players to you.

Imagine if TK was thinking that he might sign the rolling 1 year deal, then Chris comes out with his 4 first rounds statement and “I can’t see how a trade can get done.” Why would TK sign that deal knowing he will have to go through this drama again?

 

[Bestbird]

Good stuff by Scott. Nothing against West Coast but Kelly & his manager clearly planned a profitable move last year with no regards to Geelong. Ruling out Freo and him "going home" is all about cash. Geelong/Scott will do anything to stop the plan.

Kelly needs to play another 6 years at Geelong to become eleigible for free agency. Or Geelong can trade him (don't see why they will) or he can walk into the draft like any player.

So Kelly is different to every other player who nominates a club that isn't a free agent.

 

[ep2018]

Dangerfield is an ok price point- although Kelly is no Dangerfield, it was unders for Danger and player values have become inflated relative to draft picks in recent years.

So 9+28 for Danger. 13+22 is equivalent according to the Draft Value Index.

I think that will be less than Geelong want, but it is the same as what they paid for Danger.

We may be pushed into 2 firsts, but 13+22 is fair. If it takes 2 firsts you’d expect a third back probably. I’d be ok with either outcome.

Danger was a free agent wasnt he? Hardly a comparison.

 

[Shadow89]

That is not different at all. The post I made was in response to to a poster here saying that TK needed to go hard and tell GFC that he would go to the draft if needed. My comment is actually saying that TK is too decent.

So please, find me an example of where I have said one thing here and another thing on the GFC board? I'll wait.....

So you're insinuating then if TK is 'too decent' that he's being stifled by Geelong, aren't you? Again, I don't really care. You're arguing for arguments sake right now.

Let it go mate. I've explained my position, I've said I was wrong, and I've been nothing but civil on your board. I've also said that you've done the same (contrary statements) and that I understand why, given my own experience. I'm not sure what else you want. Here's another couple of contrary positions from you, insinuating that Geelong treat their players badly (I really didn't want to post anything because I'll probably get an infraction, but I see no other way seeing as you're being quite insistent):

"This is what is the most disappointing part of how Geelong has chosen to manage this situation. It gives no regards to what TK wants. Chris Scotts comments on 360 tonight about both TK and GAJ was an eye opening experience into their club's culture."

*******************

"So you are saying you want to keep a player on your list who no longer wants to be at your club?

And this makes you proud of your club?"

******************

"We aren't demanding anything. He is requesting a trade as it appears he doesn't want to be at Geelong (with good reason).

When a player requests a trade a club is support to try and facilitate the player trade with the nominated club. Geelong didn't do that in good faith last year, and obviously has no intention of doing it this year."

*******************

It's pretty incendiary and pots our club and culture, but I'm not sitting here trying to call you out for things and paint you as a villain, am I? I came in here offering an olive branch, after realizing I'd got too caught up in a lot of the argumentative stances, and I tried to do something about it. I'm happy to leave, as it's your board, but I won't be labelled as a 'troll' or 'disingenuous' when I'm not.

 

[Art OF war]

Yeo + 22 + Future 2nd for Dustin and Richmond’s 3rd rounder

Gaff for GWS 11 + 17

We then can use Dustin, picks 11, 13, 17 and our future first to get the trade done.

Thoughts?