Society/Culture The left do not represent the poor anymore

[Taylor]

It's quite scary to think about it that way. I appreciate purchasing power parity is a better guide but to think 99% of people do it really tough.

To be able to tell most of the world that if you had no job, no money, no hope in Australia you would still be able to walk into a hospital and be fed, medicated and cared for.

We have clean water drinking fountains in public.

It's the power of perspective and is what trickle down economics is supposed to be all about. Sitting at the feet of the big dogs has better crumbs than elsewhere.

 

[Gough]

So who is representing the poor?

 

[Taylor]

So who is representing the poor?

UNICEF claims to. Red Cross etc

 

[Mningasimisonda]

To be able to tell most of the world that if you had no job, no money, no hope in Australia you would still be able to walk into a hospital and be fed, medicated and cared for.

We have clean water drinking fountains in public.

It's the power of perspective and is what trickle down economics is supposed to be all about. Sitting at the feet of the big dogs has better crumbs than elsewhere.

As much as we lose a bit of money to Medicare and Centrelink at tax, it's sort of nice to know we live in a country where people shouldn't die on the streets just because of financial hardship.

 

[Taylor]

As much as we lose a bit of money to Medicare and Centrelink at tax, it's sort of nice to know we live in a country where people shouldn't die on the streets just because of financial hardship.

I think the big companies in Australia are missing a chance for a win here, although I understand why.

They love putting up an ad campaign where they talk about the good they are doing for the community, they could say that they paid $X millions in tax and they are happy to do it to support those who need it.

But then they would be bringing up the subject of avoidance and it would take a special case to come out of that looking good.

 

[Collingwoodity]

So who is representing the poor?

Not the greens or liberals or the unions or labor or the banks. They all have agendas to protect their monetary interests. We know that liberals are for business but anyone is fooling themselves if they think that Labor or Greens are for the poor.

The people who actually work and pay taxes to the incumbent governments are the ones that should be praised.

It is the incumbent governments that waste the tax receipts rather than directing them to the disabled, elderly and the poor (in that order).

 

[DivideandMultiply]

The left do represent the poor.

You are confusing the liberal centre, with "the left".

 

[Power Raid]

the left represents the poor or are they responsible for the poor?

personally I believe too far left and too far right, leads to the same outcome

 

[Power Raid]

oh and the unions are considered left and they steal from the poor and give it to the middle class

that's hardly representing the poor

 

[Run n Spread]

To be able to tell most of the world that if you had no job, no money, no hope in Australia you would still be able to walk into a hospital and be fed, medicated and cared for.

We have clean water drinking fountains in public.

It's the power of perspective and is what trickle down economics is supposed to be all about. Sitting at the feet of the big dogs has better crumbs than elsewhere.

1) 3/4 true.

2) Yep

3) Absolutely delusional. Other parts of the world have taken trickle down economics to the extreme and it has lead to disastrous results.

But back to 1. Australia has run off and had embedded in its culture a set of uncompromising principles related to equity and equality and a belief in Human Rights. That no longer exists. Everyone now is after a fast buck.

Meanwhile other areas do what works for them (all be it differently) and are running ahead at a rate of knots. In 50 years the world will look very different. Australia may very well look like one of those countries we once pitied.

 

[Taylor]

1) 3/4 true.

2) Yep

3) Absolutely delusional. Other parts of the world have taken trickle down economics to the extreme and it has lead to disastrous results.

But back to 1. Australia has run off and had embedded in its culture a set of uncompromising principles related to equity and equality and a belief in Human Rights. That no longer exists. Everyone now is after a fast buck.

Meanwhile other areas do what works for them (all be it differently) and are running ahead at a rate of knots. In 50 years the world will look very different. Australia may very well look like one of those countries we once pitied.

Considering the rich get richer I fully expect Australia will be right where it is.

 

[bombersfan4000]

1) 3/4 true.

2) Yep

3) Absolutely delusional. Other parts of the world have taken trickle down economics to the extreme and it has lead to disastrous results.

But back to 1. Australia has run off and had embedded in its culture a set of uncompromising principles related to equity and equality and a belief in Human Rights. That no longer exists. Everyone now is after a fast buck.

Meanwhile other areas do what works for them (all be it differently) and are running ahead at a rate of knots. In 50 years the world will look very different. Australia may very well look like one of those countries we once pitied.

would it be right to state what ive found is labor have just lost what they use to stand for! standing up for the worker with the unions. being the workers party while the LNP always supported big business!

now days the Labor party seem torn between playing the greens games & just arguing against any decisions the LNP make

 

[Hawk Dork]

would it be right to state what ive found is labor have just lost what they use to stand for! standing up for the worker with the unions. being the workers party while the LNP always supported big business!

now days the Labor party seem torn between playing the greens games & just arguing against any decisions the LNP make

What decisions did they make that werent worth arguing against in your opinion?

 

[Bradesmaen]

would it be right to state what ive found is labor have just lost what they use to stand for! standing up for the worker with the unions. being the workers party while the LNP always supported big business!

now days the Labor party seem torn between playing the greens games & just arguing against any decisions the LNP make

Yep the LNP is standing up for the poor worker, slashing their income tax if they earn over 80k a year.

 

[smokingjacket]

Can probably close this thread. Labor has the most redistributive platform in decades and the LNP is back to tax cuts for big business and the 1%. Any further discussion on the topic is meaningless.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Can probably close this thread. Labor has the most redistributive platform in decades and the LNP is back to tax cuts for big business and the 1%. Any further discussion on the topic is meaningless.

Having a government that simply plays Robin Hood by taxing the rich more and giving more back to the poor does no good for the poor.

The rich are the ones who pay the poor and the rich are the ones that sell commodities to the poor. The rich will just simply pay the poor less money and will charge more for commodities.

The economy needs too as much as possible be left to the free market without government interference.

 

[smokingjacket]

Having a government that simply plays Robin Hood by taxing the rich more and giving more back to the poor does no good for the poor.

The rich are the ones who pay the poor and the rich are the ones that sell commodities to the poor. The rich will just simply pay the poor less money and will charge more for commodities.

The economy needs too as much as possible be left to the free market without government interference.

Whaaa, are you suggesting that in the free market, wealthy individuals as producers don't set prices at the rate of market competition but have the power to arbitrarily set prices to compensate themselves for tax increases? This is a very radical left wing take that invalidates much of the reasoning for free market economics and competition policy.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Whaaa, are you suggesting that in the free market, wealthy individuals as producers don't set prices at the rate of market competition but have the power to arbitrarily set prices to compensate themselves for tax increases? This is a very radical left wing take that invalidates much of the reasoning for free market economics and competition policy.

Firstly increasing the cost of something falls under the bracket of supply and taking money from the rich will decrease the supply of capital because they simply have less capital to invest with.

Trying to have a strong economy without rich people getting richer is like trying to improves someone's health without looking after their heart. Rich people are to the economy what a heart is to the body.

 

[smokingjacket]

Firstly increasing the cost of something falls under the bracket of supply and taking money from the rich will decrease the supply of capital because they simply have less capital to invest with.

Trying to have a strong economy without rich people getting richer is like trying to improves someone's health without looking after their heart. Rich people are to the economy what a heart is to the body.

 

[nicky]

I kinda agree with the OP.

Whilst i believe we have a way to go with gender issues and racism, I think we need to revisit the "white male privilege " label.

In the US and Australia there is a significant chunk of white, intergenerational poverty, and white men from this demographic do not benefit from "white male privilege ". So it is offensive and invalidating, to their life experience, to insist that they are part of a privileged class of people, they are not.

In Australia they are dismissed as bogans. I wpuld confidently argue that a lesbian that was privately educated at Caulfield grammar experiences more privilege than a white guy from Broadmedows that comes from a lineage of an uneducated povety stricken family. Yet middle (and upper to middle class) social justice warriors insist that white males are privileged because they are white. We cannot expect the disadvantaged white guy to accept this rating. In no way is he benfitting from his "white privilege". The reality is he is dismissed as a bogan and his opportunities are scarce.

Point being i think it is time to call out this distinction and accept that we also have a "class privilege " which is agnostic when it comes to gender and race.

 

[faible]

3) Absolutely delusional. Other parts of the world have taken trickle down economics to the extreme and it has lead to disastrous results.

The economy needs too as much as possible be left to the free market without government interference.

I don't think it's entirely invalid; an element of inequality has been present in many successful societies, it's just the level of that inequality that is becoming a concern.

I don't think a rampant socialist agenda or entirely free market capitalism is the answer in either way, I think we've got a good model for a functional - albeit still flawed - society that both rewards those who have the ability and will to do more that just the basic requirements, while still providing a safety net for those less able, or in less conducive circumstances.

For me; the biggest concern should be with how do we reduce (or erase) the barriers that stop people from being able to move 'up' in the world. Giving educational opportunities, limiting the effects of homeless, basic access to healthcare and such are all things that provide a positive thing to society.

Sure a free-for-all approach to let the wealthy continue to earn more, and the levels of inequality to increase can offer some trickle down benefits. Alternatively we end up with South Africa where you have gated communities for the rich, with staggering levels of crime, and huge amounts of unemployed (and unemployable due to lack of education) people who really have no quality of life at all.

I can't imagine wanting to go and walk the streets after dark in Cape Town is an intelligent idea no matter how rich you are.

 

[Coolangatta]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned or not, but in Japan, they are considering passing a law to ensure that the corporate tax cuts trickle down to workers instead of up to the top of the socioeconomic ladder.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I kinda agree with the OP.

Whilst i believe we have a way to go with gender issues and racism, I think we need to revisit the "white male privilege " label.

In the US and Australia there is a significant chunk of white, intergenerational poverty, and white men from this demographic do not benefit from "white male privilege ". So it is offensive and invalidating, to their life experience, to insist that they are part of a privileged class of people, they are not.

In Australia they are dismissed as bogans. I wpuld confidently argue that a lesbian that was privately educated at Caulfield grammar experiences more privilege than a white guy from Broadmedows that comes from a lineage of an uneducated povety stricken family. Yet middle (and upper to middle class) social justice warriors insist that white males are privileged because they are white. We cannot expect the disadvantaged white guy to accept this rating. In no way is he benfitting from his "white privilege". The reality is he is dismissed as a bogan and his opportunities are scarce.

Point being i think it is time to call out this distinction and accept that we also have a "class privilege " which is agnostic when it comes to gender and race.

Old left vs new left

 

[nicky]

Old left vs new left

Yes, and what a great quote, so true.

We touched on this in another thread, you are right there is an old left v new left thing going on.

If we drew up a Venn diagram we would see overlap on issues like 'aboriginal deaths in custody' but the priorities of the new left are different to the old left AND the "new left focus on "white male privilege' with not enough focus on class.

Not to say I don't care about racism and gay/gender LGBT/feminist rights but class is a massive issue which is getting worse. The fallout from this is extreme "alt right", neo-nazi groups that will stick together because they are a strong minority group. I don't like these groups (obviously) but we don't help the situation by rubbing their faces in their non-existent "white male privilege".

*I am generalising here because I'm sure there is a cohort of genuine racists that come from wealthy backgrounds.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The new left often ignore class entirely.

It's the new left that get the media attention. Tabloid media loves it.