The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[Saint]

"Capturing the AEC" is another thing that won't happen nor any attempt will happen.

I reckon they used to say this about political institutions in the US and the UK. It starts with Departments (which have become politicised in Australia over the past decade) and moves down the chain.

The fiasco of the AAT is an example where this kind of thing could easily happen in Australia.

Electoral Commissioners are appointed by the Governors and it's not too beyond the realms of possibility of seeing politically appointed Governors making politically appointed Electoral Commissioners.

Governors are appointed by the King, so it really only takes a crazy king to start the demise of Australian democracy. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it's not a glaring-wide hole in the constitution for politicians to drive through.

It's worth learning and strengthening our democracy from observing what happens overseas, not just assuming it couldn't happen here because it hasn't before.

 

[The Punter]

I reckon they used to say this about political institutions in the US and the UK. It starts with Departments (which have become politicised in Australia over the past decade) and moves down the chain.

The fiasco of the AAT is an example where this kind of thing could easily happen in Australia.

Electoral Commissioners are appointed by the Governors and it's not too beyond the realms of possibility of seeing politically appointed Governors making politically appointed Electoral Commissioners.

Governors are appointed by the King, so it really only takes a crazy king to start the demise of Australian democracy. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it's not a glaring-wide hole in the constitution for politicians to drive through.

It's worth learning and strengthening our democracy from observing what happens overseas, not just assuming it couldn't happen here because it hasn't before.

Firstly, I am not advocating against a sense of vigilance against an attack on institutions. I just have more faith in our political class (of which I am a member) would strongly push back against such an attack as stacking the AEC or denying an election result than others around here. Personally I have indicated I would be critical of such a move in this thread.

But I also think there is a tendency to want to revel in believing the worst about people you don't agree with, and that was mainly what I was pushing against when suggesting a leader denying an election result was highly, highly unlikely regardless of who lost. Across the world, perhaps some of our issues in our polity could be solved just by moving closer to the viewpoint that those with whom we disagree are not that different from ourselves, and that we seek to approach that difference of opinion with grace and civility.

 

[QuietB]

I reckon they used to say this about political institutions in the US and the UK. It starts with Departments (which have become politicised in Australia over the past decade) and moves down the chain.

The fiasco of the AAT is an example where this kind of thing could easily happen in Australia.

Electoral Commissioners are appointed by the Governors and it's not too beyond the realms of possibility of seeing politically appointed Governors making politically appointed Electoral Commissioners.

Governors are appointed by the King, so it really only takes a crazy king to start the demise of Australian democracy. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it's not a glaring-wide hole in the constitution for politicians to drive through.

It's worth learning and strengthening our democracy from observing what happens overseas, not just assuming it couldn't happen here because it hasn't before.

It would be helpful if Australians did protest against the attacks in Australia on the Westminster system by Morrison - but alas, other than a few diehards no one even understands what happened.

 

[Rob R]

It would be helpful if Australians did protest against the attacks in Australia on the Westminster system by Morrison - but alas, other than a few diehards no one even understands what happened.

Didn't we vote then out which seems to be the ultimate protest against a polly?

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[The Punter]

Didn't we vote then out which seems to be the ultimate protest against a polly?

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Also, pretty sure the story the broke after he lost the election.

 

[QuietB]

Didn't we vote then out which seems to be the ultimate protest against a polly?

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We didn't find out until after the election and there have been zero consequences, and there will be zero consequences.

 

[The Punter]

We didn't find out until after the election and there have been zero consequences, and there will be zero consequences.

We didn't find out until after the consequences.

 

[Saint]

We didn't find out until after the election and there have been zero consequences, and there will be zero consequences.

Albanese hasn't even bothered to change the rules so that any ministerial swearing in has to be made public.

They could have at least done that to make a point.

 

[QuietB]

Albanese hasn't even bothered to change the rules so that any ministerial swearing in has to be made public.

They could have at least done that to make a point.

It is pretty disappointing to be honest. We have a toothless corruption commission, no action on any of the other stuff that depended into farce (FOI, ministerial appointments, any other possible transparency) and Labor seem to be all in on Dutton's race to the bottom - university caps the latest farce.

Politics in this country is depressing - I hope the Teals win a majority at the next election just to say **** you to both majors.

 

[The Punter]

It is pretty disappointing to be honest. He have a toothless corruption commission, no action on any of the other stuff that depended into farce (FOI, ministerial appointments, any other possible transparency) and Labor seem to be all in on Dutton's race to the bottom - university caps the latest farce.

Politics in this country is depressing - I hope the Teals win a majority at the next election just to say **** you to both majors.

To govern effectively they would have to admit they are a political party.

 

[QuietB]

To govern effectively they would have to admit they are a political party.

I really don't care at this stage - complete anarchy would be better than the current race to the bottom.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I’m all for a minority Labor government as the next election result. Maybe that’ll snap them out of trying to be a pale carbon copy of the party in the title of this thread; the one we so resoundingly rejected in 2022.

 

[The Punter]

I really don't care at this stage - complete anarchy would be better than the current race to the bottom.

There's plenty of places in the world where something close to complete anarchy is being attempted if you wanted to see what it is really like. I'll stick with the place where overblown hyperbole can pass by like so much used food wrapper in a late-August Melbourne day.

 

[QuietB]

There's plenty of places in the world where something close to complete anarchy is being attempted if you wanted to see what it is really like. I'll stick with the place where overblown hyperbole can pass by like so much used food wrapper in a late-August Melbourne day.

I genuinely think Australia would be better served with a non majority government where it is much more difficult for vested interests to capture the government of the day. For this to actually work you would need much more engaged electorate which is probably not happening any time soon.

Both major parties are entirely captured by special interests.

 

[The Punter]

I genuinely think Australia would be better served with a non majority government where it is much more difficult for vested interests to capture the government of the day. For this to actually work you would need much more engaged electorate which is probably not happening any time soon.

Both major parties are entirely captured by special interests.

Fair enough. I don't agree on the minority government but I do agree the major parties need to do much better, and at least my party needs to move away from being so easily influenced by special interests (I've made the point in other threads this is the ALP's raison d'etre - they are the political wing of the union movement - so hoping the ALP does is pointless IMO).

And it is the political parties job to engage the electorate. I'm not in the habit of blaming the wider population for not being engaged - most people have more than enough going on in their lives.

 

[Rob R]

We didn't find out until after the election and there have been zero consequences, and there will be zero consequences.

That is a good point, there wss just a censure in parliament. Ultimately though why would Australians protest against a government no longer in power? It isn't still happening.

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[Rob R]

It is pretty disappointing to be honest. We have a toothless corruption commission, no action on any of the other stuff that depended into farce (FOI, ministerial appointments, any other possible transparency) and Labor seem to be all in on Dutton's race to the bottom - university caps the latest farce.

Politics in this country is depressing - I hope the Teals win a majority at the next election just to say **** you to both majors.

We need the majors to be forced into a minority government which I expect will happen as Albo is very disappointing in many areas and Dutton is unelectable (but would probably win if not for his idiotic nuclear policy)

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[Saint]

We need the majors to be forced into a minority government which I expect will happen as Albo is very disappointing in many areas and Dutton is unelectable (but would probably win if not for his idiotic nuclear policy)

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I think the Liberals' nuclear policy is only a little bit more silly than the ALP's energy policy.

At least the Libs are honest that they don't care about fossil fuels or climate change. The ALP's line seems to be "gas for thee, but renewables for me". Australians are paying exorbitant high energy prices while becoming one of the worlds' largest energy exporters.

 

[QuietB]

I think the Liberals' nuclear policy is only a little bit more silly than the ALP's energy policy.

At least the Libs are honest that they don't care about fossil fuels or climate change. The ALP's line seems to be "gas for thee, but renewables for me". Australians are paying exorbitant high energy prices while becoming one of the worlds' largest energy exporters.

Make America Rich(er) Again

 

[western royboy]

I genuinely think Australia would be better served with a non majority government where it is much more difficult for vested interests to capture the government of the day. For this to actually work you would need much more engaged electorate which is probably not happening any time soon.

Both major parties are entirely captured by special interests.

Have you seen some of the exhibits in the Senate lately? Babet, Roberts, Hanson? They’re not fit for anything let alone sit in parliament

 

[QuietB]

Have you seen some of the exhibits in the Senate lately? Babet, Roberts, Hanson? They’re not fit for anything let alone sit in parliament

And of course Rennick.

For all the bleating about marxism and lefties and woke, imagine if there was someone in parliament who was as far left as those guys are to the right of the political spectrum? I'm not actually even sure what that would look like - although the Greens seem to be currently striving to find it. Even The Greens have turned into a populist party of reactionaries.

I guess in the game of democracy it is time to declare the media - and more specifically its owners - the winner.