The long view.

[aristeas]

Just came back from the game as an observer. I had seats in front of Ratten's coaches box in the Medallion club. I thought Ratten was completely outcoached by a first year coach in Brenton Sanderson. I said it last week, and I'll say it again tonight. Carlton have got no structure at all..

Having Yarran as the sub, I heard this news and thought, that's gonna cost them already! And I was right. How much of a change did Yarran make as soon as he come on after half time? Straight away he gave them run. In the last quarter, the Crows looked fit enough to go around for another 4 quarters, where as Carlton's players looked spent, as they were coming off the ground....

How bloody depressing when a Bulldogs supporter can see it clearer than most people here. if we really respect Brett Ratten we need to accept that he's a limited thinker. The game's moved on and we're a year behind the news. There are other options than knee-jerk sacrificing the coach, but they are going to mean new blood and new ideas. We need a strategic thinker or two, and soon.

Plan A has been all about speed, skill and possession. This works fine when you are faster, sharper and tougher than the opposition. But everybody has to be sharp, fast and tough every week - EVERYBODY, EVERY WEEK. It's a strategy that falls over when one or two key players are out, off their game or taken out by a tagger.

We have to get everything right to win against real opposition, they only have to stop us in one or two key areas and we're under pressure. Playing Brock Maclean a few weeks back showed that to perfection. He's tough and skilled, but too slow to be effective the way we play. That put pressure on everyone around him, and pressure works against skill and speed.

I've been boring friends and family for the last two years saying we need a plan B. I don't expect miracles but do I demand more from the coach and his team than simply perfecting a plan A with holes in it.

Hird and Bomber Thompson worked out how to take us apart (and currently have the best new strategy for their limited talent pool - they have strong players, fast players and key playmakers). St Kilda took it to it's logical next step and took us apart. Sanderson watched that and copied it. It's going to happen again and again if we don't come up with some serious new ideas.

Plan B has to include some key position players playing in their positions. We have a forward line made up of crumbers with no talls who can mark and kick goals, or at least consistently give our crumbers first use of the ball. Whether this is Waite, Hampson or someone else we need to sort out now. Henderson was an improvement when he went forward late in the game, unfortunately it was too late by then.

We have been getting by on the strength of a midfield stacked with talent. Our goals come from fast, sharp close in work in the middle and fast delivery to mobile forwards. Take out Carrazzo, Murphy, etc and we're a side that can't compete for the ball. No ball, no win.

I've been watching Carlton for thirty years. Playing pretty, cute football doesn't win flags. it never has. We aren't big enough, tough enough or clear about how we are going to win games. Because we only play our way regardless of the opposition. That makes us predictable. And that means we are going to lose more games against teams we are better than when they adapt and we don't.

PS: Just noticed this on the AFL site. Our Coach calling for more of the same, harder.

AFL's Blues not playing as a team: Ratten

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We are getting smashed in the clearances, this is not purely about structure. We won games last year with Walker, Garlett and Betts up forward. They are not getting near it but playing the same positions. That is not structure related. I think Jamison, Henderson and even Bower are toiling manfully back in defence. The defensive structure is there but our mid sized defenders are out of sorts.

It is our midfield structure where we are down. I reckon the Bulldogs supporter is seeing rushed kicks, players out of position as a result and reacting to it.

As for Carlton looking better when Yarran came on, he was tagged out of defence and put into the forward line to get kicks. We were smashed more in the second half than we were in the first.

I'm not giving credit to half arsed theories. The midfield setup, the clearance stats and Carrazzo missing are far more plausible theories than a simplistic 'they have no structure and Yarran shouldn't have been sub'.

Let's face it, we are all mightily pissed off and will believe anything anybody says about us now.

 

[The Coach]

The Age article the OP tacked on includes:

But he said it was far from the only problem that needed fixing, with Adelaide smashing his side in winning the contested ball, running harder and applying much greater defensive pressure, as well as combining better as a unit.
"The best teams are the ones that do it together and work together," Ratten said.
"At the moment we're more about the individual, not about the team."

I do not like the last line too much, it seems a little "It is their fault not mine" and whether you believe that or not I don't like the coach saying it - unless he was to say "I have to get them to ...."

 

[davis_756]

We needed this wake up call, we have gone back to 2010 when we didn't run both ways.

Teams are starting with 8 defenders against us and we are leaving 4v4 up their end. Our spare men are just standing around in the middle of the ground.

Its also pretty obvious we need Carrazzo & Murphy in the middle to be competitive against the better sides but both of them out gives someone a chance to stand up which we need if were going to be competitive when someone like Murphy is well tagged.

Its only early and we play our worst football at Eithad, lets hope we develop our defensive side of the game over the next few months. We need to start defending 1st while we are losing clearances.

 

[blue gunslinger]

had a few wake up calls
must be strong temazepam

 

[steveo898]

We needed this wake up call, we have gone back to 2010 when we didn't run both ways.

Teams are starting with 8 defenders against us and we are leaving 4v4 up their end. Our spare men are just standing around in the middle of the ground.

Its also pretty obvious we need Carrazzo & Murphy in the middle to be competitive against the better sides but both of them out gives someone a chance to stand up which we need if were going to be competitive when someone like Murphy is well tagged.

Its only early and we play our worst football at Eithad, lets hope we develop our defensive side of the game over the next few months. We need to start defending 1st while we are losing clearances.

The rest of you're post I understand..... But didn't we have this wake up call against the Saints? This game against the Crows we were suppose to respond and come out hard & hungry for the ball, instead we came out & played much worse.

 

[GoBlues!]

The Age article the OP tacked on includes:

But he said it was far from the only problem that needed fixing, with Adelaide smashing his side in winning the contested ball, running harder and applying much greater defensive pressure, as well as combining better as a unit.
"The best teams are the ones that do it together and work together," Ratten said.
"At the moment we're more about the individual, not about the team."

I do not like the last line too much, it seems a little "It is their fault not mine" and whether you believe that or not I don't like the coach saying it - unless he was to say "I have to get them to ...."

Agree. Its the coach and his barrage of assistants responsibility to make the team gel.

Adelaide has essentially got the same players as last year, but they seem to be combining better and playing a stronger brand of footy. Maybe the players just decided to play better this year or maybe the new coach Sanderson is making a difference.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I do agree that the players are not working for each other. They are working to be the one receiving the ball, but not looking to put others in a better position. That or they are not maintaining it. There was a marked rise in intensity by us mid third quarter. It was noticeable all over the ground. But it only last 5 minutes or so and we noticeable went back into our shell and did some token one out running with no real intent.

 

[serenityNow]

We are getting smashed in the clearances, this is not purely about structure. We won games last year with Walker, Garlett and Betts up forward. They are not getting near it but playing the same positions. That is not structure related. I think Jamison, Henderson and even Bower are toiling manfully back in defence. The defensive structure is there but our mid sized defenders are out of sorts.

It is our midfield structure where we are down. I reckon the Bulldogs supporter is seeing rushed kicks, players out of position as a result and reacting to it.

As for Carlton looking better when Yarran came on, he was tagged out of defence and put into the forward line to get kicks. We were smashed more in the second half than we were in the first.

I'm not giving credit to half arsed theories. The midfield setup, the clearance stats and Carrazzo missing are far more plausible theories than a simplistic 'they have no structure and Yarran shouldn't have been sub'.

Let's face it, we are all mightily pissed off and will believe anything anybody says about us now.

Thought that was good coaching by Adelaide, they already had a plan ready to go for Yarran (sub or not). Covered all their bases well.

 

[Krooooze]

We needed this wake up call, we have gone back to 2010 when we didn't run both ways.

Teams are starting with 8 defenders against us and we are leaving 4v4 up their end. Our spare men are just standing around in the middle of the ground.

Its also pretty obvious we need Carrazzo & Murphy in the middle to be competitive against the better sides but both of them out gives someone a chance to stand up which we need if were going to be competitive when someone like Murphy is well tagged.

Its only early and we play our worst football at Eithad, lets hope we develop our defensive side of the game over the next few months. We need to start defending 1st while we are losing clearances.

A wake up call? Surely not! We must have had a record number of wake up calls in the last a couple of years. We had one against the Bombers, one against the Saints and one against the Crows. How many more wake up calls does a club need to actually come good?

What amazes is that the media and other clubs have pretty said "Teams have worked out the blueprint to beat Carlton" etc etc, yet the experts neglect to comment on the Blues structures and what they do to counter this blueprint.

This suggests to me that nobody knows what our game plan is, and that Ratten either has no idea or is running out of ideas.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Ratten's time will be up if he doesn't turn the attitude of the playing group around. They are coming out so flat and really looks like a lot of them don't give a stuff.

If we were a shit team with limited talent, then I could understand the lack of competitiveness, but when you're a team that should be in the top 4 it is unacceptable.

Shouldn't they be motivated even more now that they close to winning a flag? There's no real dominant team this year like there has been in the past so this year could've been perfect for us to become that dominant team, instead we serve up this crap for 5 weeks in a row.

We are not getting ANYTHING from our number 1 draft picks. Although Murph unfortunately suffered an AC injury, he wasn't really doing anything special before he got injured. He was being well held and you'd think after copping a hard tag against the Saints they would've prepared him for this. Then there's Kruze who for the first time I saw him not got 200%. Even he was giving half arsed efforts at times and really had no impact whatsoever.

Gibbs is another one but I kind of expected it from him. That effort on the wing that resulted in a Crows goal is the effort of a guy who doesn't give a stuff.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Thought that was good coaching by Adelaide, they already had a plan ready to go for Yarran (sub or not). Covered all their bases well.

Which tells us they have the versatility and toughness in their side to be able to plan for anyone. We are quite limited in our options. Lack inside mids, lack hard bodies (at this stage), the hard bodies we do have are not necessarily instinctive contested players (Robbo aside), lack quality small defenders that can hold goalsneaks, so we kind of need the game style to fall into our laps to play to our strengths. Or we need to get out of the blocks early to force the opposition to shy away from their game plan that might have had us beat all things being equal.

 

[phoenix69]

Which tells us they have the versatility and toughness in their side to be able to plan for anyone. We are quite limited in our options. Lack inside mids, lack hard bodies (at this stage), the hard bodies we do have are not necessarily instinctive contested players (Robbo aside), lack quality small defenders that can hold goalsneaks, so we kind of need the game style to fall into our laps to play to our strengths. Or we need to get out of the blocks early to force the opposition to shy away from their game plan that might have had us beat all things being equal.

We were up and about early, the absolute soda that Gibbs missed from 20 out seemed to inspire the Crows and deflate the Blues. There has to be some form of accountability for that sort of error... perhaps a hair product ban for a month would suffice.

 

[The Coach]

It seems to me that Juddy is our only vocal leader (huddling the boys) and yet he is more renowned as a leader by example (Cousins continued to be the leader of WCE even when Juddy was Capt). Even if I am wrong about this - and Juddy is the most inspiring talker of all time, who else have we got that gets revved up vocally when we need to lift? Anyone know? I am thinking we might be missing Carrots and Laidler on that front too. Had a feeling Duigs was pretty talkative last year but maybe not so much now that he is struggling (due to injury) this year

Kreuze is not called Humpfrey for nothing and don't see Murph, Gibbs and Jammo open their mouths too often. I could list a dozen non-talkers. I don't know whether Robbo has the smarts to be a verbal leader - or Waite even but he and experienced players like Scotty and Simmo should not be leaving it (like everything else) to Juddy. We need some players to be almost over the top to compensate for Jeffy, Yazza, Hammer, Bower ....

I have been a knocker of Brock but with the injuries he has to come back in this week and he (if his confidence is not shattered) could be a talker - sheez Ratts may as well tell him he has got until Murph and Carrots get back to have a final fling at it.

Comparisons have been made to old premiership teams in respect to toughness but it could also be frightening to compare how verbal - cheeky, enthusiastic, angry - Fraser Brown, Wayne Johnston, Sticks, Jimmy Buckley, Mark Maclure, SOS and even Diesel were compared to our present group

 

[audas]

We were up and about early, the absolute soda that Gibbs missed from 20 out seemed to inspire the Crows and deflate the Blues. There has to be some form of accountability for that sort of error... perhaps a hair product ban for a month would suffice.

Now you're getting it ! Nice !!

No more Disco blue BOYS.
No more DISCO BUMPS.
We are meant to be playing footy - not this....

[YOUTUBE]LaCn0P-G2lQ[/YOUTUBE]

The hardest bump all day (Murphy aside).

 

[audas]

It seems to me that Juddy is our only vocal leader (huddling the boys) and yet he is more renowned as a leader by example (Cousins continued to be the leader of WCE even when Juddy was Capt). Even if I am wrong about this - and Juddy is the most inspiring talker of all time, who else have we got that gets revved up vocally when we need to lift? Anyone know? I am thinking we might be missing Carrots and Laidler on that front too. Had a feeling Duigs was pretty talkative last year but maybe not so much now that he is struggling (due to injury) this year

Kreuze is not called Humpfrey for nothing and don't see Murph, Gibbs and Jammo open their mouths too often. I could list a dozen non-talkers. I don't know whether Robbo has the smarts to be a verbal leader - or Waite even but he and experienced players like Scotty and Simmo should not be leaving it (like everything else) to Juddy. We need some players to be almost over the top to compensate for Jeffy, Yazza, Hammer, Bower ....

I have been a knocker of Brock but with the injuries he has to come back in this week and he (if his confidence is not shattered) could be a talker - sheez Ratts may as well tell him he has got until Murph and Carrots get back to have a final fling at it.

Comparisons have been made to old premiership teams in respect to toughness but it could also be frightening to compare how verbal - cheeky, enthusiastic, angry - Fraser Brown, Wayne Johnston, Sticks, Jimmy Buckley, Mark Maclure, SOS and even Diesel were compared to our present group

Rhys Jones, Hickmott !!

 

[BlueFeaver]

Long time between posts for me......... most of the points made have been accurate.
In addition to them I would like to know what their current training loads are.....it seems even in the early stages of the preseason it was being spruiked we needed to play towards finals and finish the year in a stronger fashion. In previous years we have limped into the finals on the back of some flat form and physical duress.
I saw a team on Sunday that was flat on both a mental and physical level.......it would be great to know what loading phase they are going through at the moment if at all.......I am sure there are some posters with more knowledge on the timing of training loads and there affect.

 

[Worm4]

Probably no need to disect the game more than what already has been pointed out.
I will say this, the sooner we get away from Ethihad the better. We are a five goal worse side at that ground ( not that it would have mattered much over the past fornight )
For some reason the team plays better at the MCG and it will be nice to get back there playing our best football.
I'm not going to bag players etc, but whoever wears no 2 shouldnt be in the side - period

 

[thylacine60]

Talk about "I'm not a racist but ..."

 

[The Coach]

I think you have misconstrued Thy - he is talking from a numerology perspective

 

[carlton09]

Am I the only one with hope? We are a quarter way through a very long season and things change quickly. It was only 3 weeks ago that we were talking premierships We showed with a full and healthy list our potential and I think that if our injury list is fresh come finals time we can have a real big crack.

We are without a few key players and it will only strengthen our team in the long run.

 

[davis_756]

The rest of you're post I understand..... But didn't we have this wake up call against the Saints? This game against the Crows we were suppose to respond and come out hard & hungry for the ball, instead we came out & played much worse.

No i think last week they just assumed they had an off game and would be fine if they just hit the ball a bit harder, now they realize there is more to it then that and they are going to need to do a lot of hard work between now and finals time.

 

[audas]

Am I the only one with hope? We are a quarter way through a very long season and things change quickly. It was only 3 weeks ago that we were talking premierships We showed with a full and healthy list our potential and I think that if our injury list is fresh come finals time we can have a real big crack.

We are without a few key players and it will only strengthen our team in the long run.

It was pretty apparent after the Essendon game there was a serious, serious problem.
Limped in against Freo, then struggled against GWS, before we got smashed last two weeks. So yes, you are on your own.

 

[The Coach]

No i think last week they just assumed they had an off game and would be fine if they just hit the ball a bit harder, now they realize there is more to it then that and they are going to need to do a lot of hard work between now and finals time.

But there were just as many realist supporters who did not expect a miracle on Sunday - see below.

It was pretty apparent after the Essendon game there was a serious, serious problem.
Limped in against Freo, then struggled against GWS, before we got smashed last two weeks. So yes, you are on your own.

Form is how you have been performing - supporters who do not analyse our performances are liable to receive some nasty surprises

 

[davis_756]

A wake up call? Surely not! We must have had a record number of wake up calls in the last a couple of years. We had one against the Bombers, one against the Saints and one against the Crows. How many more wake up calls does a club need to actually come good?

What amazes is that the media and other clubs have pretty said "Teams have worked out the blueprint to beat Carlton" etc etc, yet the experts neglect to comment on the Blues structures and what they do to counter this blueprint.

This suggests to me that nobody knows what our game plan is, and that Ratten either has no idea or is running out of ideas.

We had a game plan for it last year, when they pushed back we put up the wall outside 50 and we tackled better then any side in the comp in our forward line. We forced turnovers and kept sending it back in.

Now we are not tackling as hard and our wall is full of holes, sides are pushing back and running the ball out easily and killing us on the rebound.

Our midfield has also gone backwards, clearances win matches and we are not winning them. We have gone backwards in this area since last year when guys like curnow, ellard & robinson were addressing our lack of inside mids. Scotland as well provided that bigger body and is not in the same form he was last year.

If you check our turnovers inside 50 & goals conceded on the rebound will be hugely different from 2011.

-----------


In my book there is 3 things we need to change

#1 Lift our tackling intensity
#2 Find a consistant clearance winner outside of Judd, Murphy & Carazzo (I'd like to take off Judd's tally and see us still winning clearances against Melbourne and Port while the other 2 are missing, someone needs to stand up)
#3 Tighten up our defensive press/zone, the players have got slack on it and it needs work (Pressure is still the key to making a press work).

Other then that get Waite, Murphy, Carazzo, Laidler & Warnock back and we should be looking better. Hopefully a Kruezer, Hampson or Mitchell can stand up at FF for us to give us decent tall option to go to against sides who push numbers back.

We should be 7-3 in a few weeks time, the 5 games after that will decide our season.