The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Next Waiting]

Hard to think of a more sh&t system? Try most of the world.
The system is working the best it can, people, especially lawyers will always be able to weasel around any system if they have bad intentions. The electoral college was designed to diffuse power. Their whole constitution is set up this way. Their system is designed to have to work with the opposing voices for most legislation, slightly differently to Westminster style who have a clear winner and a mandate for the length of their term. There is a continuing diffusion of power, it makes things slow and messy, but that is fine, good system, full of bad actors at the moment.

That I was suggesting a shit system within a democracy didn't seem like it needed spelling out. But OK, what I meant was a shit system in a democratic environment that has the heightened potential to deliver not very democratic outcomes in demographically modern America.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Fact is election day by statute is the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November.

Of course. The wider point is that Trump also wants same day counting as well.

So as to stop Dumps, Massive Dumps in the middle of the night. Otherwise known as the counting of the votes that don't favour him

In any case, fact is most States allow early voting and all States have absentee voting. If people want to vote, they have multiple ways to do it.

Where did I say otherwise?

What I did say is that states have multiple ways of disenfranchising people's voting rights.

It's interesting to me that Trump has seen the error of his idiotic ways and is now encouraging his voters to avail themselves of mail in ballots. If he hadn't done otherwise last election and suppressed his own vote there is a reasonable chance that the political genius would've been re-elected.

The electoral college system is desgined to strengthen democracy, not weaken it. It guards against what is known as the tyranny of the majority. It stops like-voting groups living in densely populated states forcing their will over smaller populations living on less densely populated lands far away.

Sure, its nice in principle, but the flip side of that is that its a system that over-represents the views of small rural or swing states and nullifies the popular vote at the expense of the rest of the country.

Thats a system that inherently favours Republican leaning states.

Just like a system that allows for state prosecutors to charge anybody with crimes that come under their jurisdiction. Whether thats a President found guilty of Sexual assault. Civil fraud and 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. Or anybody else accused of doing the same.

Thats a system that inherently favours Democratic leaning states.

Just like a system that allows for political appointees to sit on the judicial benches and oversee cases against the person responsible for their lifetime appointment.

Thats a system that inherently favours corrupt ex-presidents.

Or the system that allows federal prosecutors to reshape and refile the same charges after appeal.

Thats a system that inherently favours the law.

The crossroads of politics and the law has a funny way of finding an equilibrium.

Just another point about the allegations of voter supression being levelled at Republicans. Most of the proposaled bills criminalize voter fraud. Why do Democrats have a problem with that?

In any case there are only a handful those bills, which are dwarfed by the 162 bills that would improve voter access or election administration.


It amounts to more disinformation from the Leftist activists.

Republicans have already filed dozens of bills to restrict voting in 2023

Measures in Texas would raise criminal penalties and create voting-focused law enforcement unit

www.theguardian.com

Nobody is suggesting that criminalising voter fraud is a problem.

The problem is with the bills being drawn up by right wing activists and law makers in red states like Texas that are not really about voter fraud at all. They're about trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist beyond their own fever dreams, and an overriding desire to suppress the turn out of their political opponents. The idea that there is widespread or systematic voter fraud is just a distraction and yet another pathetic display of fealty to a felon that they have hitched their wagon to and have no way of ridding themselves of.

No matter how they are drawn up or spun, their real intent is to perpetuate the Big Lie of 2020 and make it harder for people to get out to vote.

Indeed Donald Trump lost 60 of 61 arguments that he brought before the courts claiming all kinds of fraud after the last election. The only win he had was on a technicality so minor that it was irreverent to his own argument.

Who can ever forget this display of buffoonery?

 

[dogwatch]

Hard to think of a more sh&t system? Try most of the world.
The system is working the best it can, people, especially lawyers will always be able to weasel around any system if they have bad intentions. The electoral college was designed to diffuse power. Their whole constitution is set up this way. Their system is designed to have to work with the opposing voices for most legislation, slightly differently to Westminster style who have a clear winner and a mandate for the length of their term. There is a continuing diffusion of power, it makes things slow and messy, but that is fine, good system, full of bad actors at the moment.

Fair point about bad actors. When there's a lot at stake, as there usually is in an election, people will find ways to exploit any weaknesses in the system. We have our "senate preference whisperers" for instance and with a few minutes thought I'm sure I could come up with various other attempts to undermine our system of voting.

The issue is not so much the system in place but the presence of people with the ability and the motivation to subvert whatever democratic system is in place.

None of them are perfect. I reckon ours is one of the best but I haven't studied the American system enough to form a strong opinion about it. I think a fair bit of its structure is a reflection of their history in the 18th century when they became a single independent nation.

 

[H Dolphin]

Unrestricted franchise, proportional voting, compulsory voting, secret ballot, holiday atmosphere around pollling day, Electoral Commission, universal confidence in the integrity of the electoral system. We are spoilt.

 

[Next Waiting]

Unrestricted franchise, proportional voting, compulsory voting, secret ballot, holiday atmosphere around polling day, Electoral Commission, universal confidence in the integrity of the electoral system. We are spoilt.

Could equally apply to this antipodean paradise

 

[H Dolphin]

Could equally apply to this antipodean paradise

Fred Dagg.

 

[LittleG]

This sh!t just got weird.

 

[Bulldog1954]

 

[Next Waiting]

Trump being Trump. What a muppet. He should be in an asylum.....for the criminally insane.

 

[Freshwater]

He’s just mocking the total bs that is DEI. The bad actors that make everything about race have divided America. It’s not about character anymore to them as MLK longed for its all about our differences not what unites. DEI is a poisonous snake that will never do anything good, whoever promotes it should never be elected.

 

[Bulldog1954]

He’s just mocking the total bs that is DEI. The bad actors that make everything about race have divided America. It’s not about character anymore to them as MLK longed for its all about our differences not what unites. DEI is a poisonous snake that will never do anything good, whoever promotes it should never be elected.

I know you'll defend nearly anything he says, but what he's doing is trying to whip up his supporter base by raising the idea that Kamala isn't black like he did with the Obama wasn't born in America rubbish.

He has a long history of racism, but it doesn't bother his supporter base, it's quite the opposite.

 

[Golden_6]

I know you'll defend nearly anything he says, but what he's doing is trying to whip up his supporter base by raising the idea that Kamala isn't black like he did with the Obama wasn't born in America rubbish.

He has a long history of racism, but it doesn't bother his supporter base, it's quite the opposite.

I honestly don't even understand his point though. Kamala is black, it's a literal fact.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I honestly don't even understand his point though. Kamala is black, it's a literal fact.

He never lets facts get in the way of starting a good old witch hunt.

 

[Freshwater]

I know you'll defend nearly anything he says, but what he's doing is trying to whip up his supporter base by raising the idea that Kamala isn't black like he did with the Obama wasn't born in America rubbish.

He has a long history of racism, but it doesn't bother his supporter base, it's quite the opposite.

I actually don’t defend him at all. I reckon DEI is one of the main reasons amongst a few, that go against the spirit of democracy, and that it’s no wonder we end up with someone like Trump. If the Democratic Party wants Trump defeated, they should steer away from this DEI cancer on western culture.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I actually don’t defend him at all. I reckon DEI is one of the main reasons amongst a few, that go against the spirit of democracy, and that it’s no wonder we end up with someone like Trump. If the Democratic Party wants Trump defeated, they should steer away from this DEI cancer on western culture.

In the video he says Kamala has "turned black" and your response was "he's just mocking the total BS that is the DEI". That seems like a defence to me, the use of the word "just" is the giveaway

He's not " mocking DEI, he is clearly suggesting

 

[Freshwater]

In the video he says Kamala has "turned black" and your response was "he's just mocking the total BS that is the DEI". That seems like a defence to me, the use of the word "just" is the giveaway

He's not " mocking DEI, he is clearly suggesting

It was a mock of her using her racial identity as a tool. Elizabeth Warren tried to be Indigenous many years back and Trump called her Pocahontas for years. I don’t necessarily like his style but when it comes to DEI I reckon mock that garbage for all it’s worth.

 

[bresker]

 

[Freshwater]

View attachment 2065043

Perfect example, because it can make any and potentially every workplace relationship toxic. Turning colleagues against one another. Questioning the merit of any promotion. Thinking everything is about power and influence. DEI takes people and organisations to dark motivations. The western world needs to reject it . If that means Trump, so be it, I’m glad he mocks it.

 

[bresker]

The guy on the left, like Trump, can worry about DEI and mock it all he wants. But luckily for him, he's still in a position of power & privilege. I doubt the DEI causes him much more trouble than a passing irritation as he drives home to the suburbs in his Raptor.

You do realise that people of colour, and especially women of colour , have to be always on top of their game & never put a foot wrong lest they get accused of using their skin colour to get an unfair advantage?

Meanwhile the tall bouffant haired white man could strangle a child with his bare hands on live TV and some of his followers would still vote for him.

 

[BEaston]

 

[BEaston]

I actually don’t defend him at all. I reckon DEI is one of the main reasons amongst a few, that go against the spirit of democracy, and that it’s no wonder we end up with someone like Trump. If the Democratic Party wants Trump defeated, they should steer away from this DEI cancer on western culture.

You literally defended him one post earlier.

 

[BEaston]

Perfect example, because it can make any and potentially every workplace relationship toxic. Turning colleagues against one another. Questioning the merit of any promotion. Thinking everything is about power and influence. DEI takes people and organisations to dark motivations. The western world needs to reject it . If that means Trump, so be it, I’m glad he mocks it.

I don't think you understood the picture.

 

[Freshwater]

I don't think you understood the picture.

Oh I got the picture, believe me I did. But it showed the toxicity both ways. I think you didn’t get it both ways?
And yes in this instance I do defend the orange nut.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It was a bold strategy for the white guy who inherited his wealth, has filed for bankruptcy protection 6 times. Is an adjudged rapist, is on the hook for a $500+ million business fraud and is a a convicted felon to take to the stage with 3 female black journalists in front of a room full of other black journalists. And then claim that a black woman, career prosecutor, Senator, Vice President and Presidential candidate was in essence a DEI hire and not fit to be President.

It doesn't take a degree in political science, sociology or common sense to understand that Trump in his tin eared way was reverting to type and blowing a giant dog whistle to his base and talking right over an audience that he believes have only been able to rise above their station in life because of the progress that society has made in the years since the civil rights movement of the late 50's and early 60's. Progress that right wing organisations like the Heritage foundation with their Project 2025 have been trying to wind back over the last 30 years.

You only need to look at his later comments about how migrants are coming in to steal black peoples jobs to understand this. Because he's been able to con and bullshit his way to a rarefied stratus of society he sees black people as either useful props for his political career or only capable of doing the menial service jobs of society. Positions that he would have blacks believe will be swallowed up by the hordes of brown people coming across the southern border.

He had this notion instilled deep into his cracked psyche by his father and its something that has been at the core of his being ever since.

Anyways, the DEI discussion is a mere sideshow from what was a disaster of an interview. One that his panicked staff had to pull the plug on as soon as the subject of Project 2025 was brought up. It's little wonder that his handlers never let the buffoon be interviewed outside of his safe places of Fox, OAN and RSBN.

When given the opportunity of speaking freely, he'll always say the quiet part of his inherent racism out loud. Thus exposing himself for the reprehensible arseh*le that he truly is. I hope that he does it more often over the next 99 days.

But I wouldn't bet on it after todays fiasco.

Some very familiar talking points on display here...

 

[Freshwater]

I don’t know whether Kamala Harris is vice president on merit or whether she was picked because of her sex and ethnicity? Opinions aren’t necessarily the truth? But the fact we question this shows the rot of DEI.
To think DEI is an extension of the civil rights movement is just not true. The civil rights movement wanted to fulfill the promise of the Declaration of Independence. To come together, to be treated equally before the law, to still obviously see our racial differences but not have them define us, or to get in the way, see each other as equal. We were getting there.
But Critical Race Theory came through the universities and reached corporate America and mainstream media and created affirmative action programs and DEI programs that divide and destroy culture. To artificially create racial quota objectives is wrong on every level.
As I mentioned I absolutely find this stuff toxic and no wonder people go to a narcissist unit like Trump because of this nonsense. All the big murderous authoritarian regimes of the of the 20th century practised separation along racial or economic lines. We can’t fall for it. That’s why I oppose so vigorously.