The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[stefcep]

"Kamala Harris, for the people".

I thought that was brilliant. The 5 opening words she used as a prosecutor and the idea that a crime perpetrated against one is a crime against all and protecting the all represented by one (or a handful) in a court.

And the transference of that to the Presidency. Kamala Harris for the people. All the people.

It really was brilliant.

Unless you are a "priveleged" white male living in a trailor with your crack addict mum.

 

[Next Waiting]

Unless you are a "priveleged" white male living in a trailor with your crack addict mum.

I've been pretty transparent that my interest lies in the strategy of winning the election. That and being repulsed by Trump as a person and hoping that the party who have so willingly embraced the repulsive person should have their day of reckoning.

I have no inclination to dive deeply into the policies of either contender other than being aware that there are significant differences and that they appeal (as the candidates do) to different demographics and probably values.

I have a superficial interest in who wins. I've chosen a team to barrack for and that's the Democrats.

The Republicans to me are simply a political equivalent to GWS and Melbourne football clubs in that they are utterly unlikeable. Trump is Toby Greene and I hope he fails. A Trump victory would be as unpalatable as watching Greene lift the cup.

The game plan is the interesting bit.

 

[Dogs 13]

Your mother is a wise woman

No she isn’t

 

[Dogs 13]

Unless you are a "priveleged" white male living in a trailor with your crack addict mum.

Did you mean caravan ??

 

[yebach]

The old saying power corrupts is a valid one.
Must admit I take little interest in local politics, even at the federal level.
On the whole both parties here are at least reasonably respectable ???

I have only entered this debate because a Trump like figure is so morally bankrupt, I struggle to think of a worst actor in the democratic western world in my lifetime.
He has highjacked a long standing respected party to the point they have become as morally bankrupt as him !

That's fair enough.

For me though it would have to be the Bush family. They have had a hand in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people across decades.

 

[King Harold]

That's fair enough.

For me though it would have to be the Bush family. They have had a hand in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people across decades.

That’s fair enough too.
All I would say is the Bush’s weren’t bad people as such , they may well have had a miss guided foreign policy and how their power should police the world.
Miss guided or not, I think they had the American people at heart.

 

[Freshwater]

He’s a shit talking cooker who’s now selling his soul for a seat at the big table. He clearly has no principals and doesn’t give a **** about the things he claims, much like Trump. So not surprised he warms your heart.

He’s now aligning himself with the worst of the worst

You talk about values, but you cheer guys like this on. You defend Trump and spruik right wing cooker narratives.

It’s pretty clear it’s not others that need to check their values

You obviously didn’t listen to his great speech.

 

[darklake]

I've been pretty transparent that my interest lies in the strategy of winning the election. That and being repulsed by Trump as a person and hoping that the party who have so willingly embraced the repulsive person should have their day of reckoning.

I have no inclination to dive deeply into the policies of either contender other than being aware that there are significant differences and that they appeal (as the candidates do) to different demographics and probably values.

I have a superficial interest in who wins. I've chosen a team to barrack for and that's the Democrats.

The Republicans to me are simply a political equivalent to GWS and Melbourne football clubs in that they are utterly unlikeable. Trump is Toby Greene and I hope he fails. A Trump victory would be as unpalatable as watching Greene lift the cup.

The game plan is the interesting bit.

Get out of my head!!

 

[Nath09]

Unless you are a "priveleged" white male living in a trailor with your crack addict mum.

I'll bite. I'll start by saying that I'm not a proponent of identity politics, but this is a fairly straightforward misrepresentation / misunderstanding of the concept of 'white privilege'. One can be afforded the privilege of presenting as "white" in a society that values whiteness, while still be disadvantaged financially, economically, structurally. The same applies to discussions of gender.

I don't think anyone of any import has ever made the argument that possessing white or male privilege makes you privileged in totality, and I'd suggest that this kind of interpretation is emblematic of the kind of nuance missing from the conservative side of this debate.

 

[stefcep]

I'll bite. I'll start by saying that I'm not a proponent of identity politics, but this is a fairly straightforward misrepresentation / misunderstanding of the concept of 'white privilege'. One can be afforded the privilege of presenting as "white" in a society that values whiteness, while still be disadvantaged financially, economically, structurally. The same applies to discussions of gender.

I don't think anyone of any import has ever made the argument that possessing white or male privilege makes you privileged in totality, and I'd suggest that this kind of interpretation is emblematic of the kind of nuance missing from the conservative side of this debate.

If a white suffers financial, economic and structural disadvantage, there is literally no privilege that they have that is of any consequence for their lot in life.

If you have financial advantage, economic advantage and structural advantage, and you can't make it in life, then its not your skin color to blame. Its YOU. YOU are the problem, not the white dude living in poverty-he ain't holding you back.

Not being able to articulate things and making vacuos statements that rely on made up phrases like "white privilege" does not make the discussion "nuanced". It makes it a load of waffly, pretentious bullshit.

 

[Nath09]

Again, not a fan of identity politics. But a person who presents as white may get preferential treatment, say in job hiring, obtaining a loan from a bank, by doctors in the treatment of medical ailments, by police officers and in court. This is all that is being referred to, and to say that there is literally no privilege in being part of the dominant social group is just wrong. Yes it's an academic concept, but it's also a phenomenon that is backed statistically, by much research.

Considering nuance makes the discussion nuanced. Calling it waffly pretentious bullshit is just proving my point.

Carry on.

 

[H Dolphin]

Again, not a fan of identity politics. But a person who presents as white may get preferential treatment, say in job hiring, obtaining a loan from a bank, by doctors in the treatment of medical ailments, by police officers and in court. This is all that is being referred to, and to say that there is literally no privilege in being part of the dominant social group is just wrong. Yes it's an academic concept, but it's also a phenomenon that is backed statistically, by much research.

Considering nuance makes the discussion nuanced. Calling it waffly pretentious bullshit is just proving my point.

Carry on.

In the last couple of years, the prime ministers / first ministers of England, Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland have been brown. The current PM of Australia is the son of a southern Italian. The favourite, as far as this thread is concerned, for the next President of the US is the daughter of an Indian and a black West Indian (do you think she can bowl ?), there's already been a black President. Canada ? Let's not go there, too cold. "White privilege" in the Anglophone is a nonsense.

 

[Nath09]

Yes, the racial profile of select politicians is definitely causally related to the everyday experiences of citizens from the wider population, and definitive proof that there is absolutely no benefit to being white in Anglo society. Jesus.

Implying that Anthony Albanese is effectively a person of colour is champagne comedy though.

 

[H Dolphin]

Y....

Implying that Anthony Albanese is effectively a person of colour is champagne comedy though.

Come in, spinner. In the words of Marty McFly "Lighten up, dude." This thread's a joke, enjoy it whilst it lasts.

 

[stefcep]

Again, not a fan of identity politics. But a person who presents as white may get preferential treatment, say in job hiring, obtaining a loan from a bank, by doctors in the treatment of medical ailments, by police officers and in court. This is all that is being referred to, and to say that there is literally no privilege in being part of the dominant social group is just wrong. Yes it's an academic concept, but it's also a phenomenon that is backed statistically, by much research.

Considering nuance makes the discussion nuanced. Calling it waffly pretentious bullshit is just proving my point.

Carry on.

The reason why the white privilege narrative falls down is because its a generalization. White skinned people of European descent are not one homogenous group. Their ancestry, customs, culture, food, language, family upbringing, economic, geographic, and social statuses varies enormously. You can't say that whites get preferential treatment because that depends on the white group you are talking about.


As a white European, the bank knocked back my first home loan application. I didn't make enough money to service the loan. What happened to my white privilege? I could go on..

The word nuance means "a subtle difference". By definition these are small things.. The fact that you need to go ever more insignificant criteria to prove the narrative is an indication the narrative is false or deeply flawed.

There are are 33 million whites in the US who live in poverty. What privileges does their skin afford them?

 

[stefcep]

Yes, the racial profile of select politicians is definitely causally related to the everyday experiences of citizens from the wider population, and definitive proof that there is absolutely no benefit to being white in Anglo society. Jesus.

Implying that Anthony Albanese is effectively a person of colour is champagne comedy though.

What it shows is that you cannot compartmentalise people in to arbitrary groups like skin color and then generalize about their lot in life.

These politicians from minority backgrounds were able to rise to the most powerful position in their nation. That's what predominantly white Western societies gives you: opportunity to succeed irrespective of your background, your skin color, you ancestry. No other society does that. All thanks to the white privilege.

 

[Royale]

I dont understand the preoccupation with race. I really dont.

I grew up an Asian kid in the early 80's in Australia and experienced stuff. But its 2024. Its not a factor. And never has been in my life.

My god, imagine thinking that the world is inherently racist and that you can attribute your lot in life because of your skin colour. Utterly galling.

 

[King Harold]

The reason why the white privilege narrative falls down is because its a generalization. White skinned people of European descent are not one homogenous group. Their ancestry, customs, culture, food, language, family upbringing, economic, geographic, and social statuses varies enormously. You can't say that whites get preferential treatment because that depends on the white group you are talking about.


As a white European, the bank knocked back my first home loan application. I didn't make enough money to service the loan. What happened to my white privilege? I could go on..

The word nuance means "a subtle difference". By definition these are small things.. The fact that you need to go ever more insignificant criteria to prove the narrative is an indication the narrative is false or deeply flawed.

There are are 33 million whites in the US who live in poverty. What privileges does their skin afford them?

Just checking, the bank knocked back your loan cause you couldn’t service it ?

 

[Fossie 32]

Come in, spinner. In the words of Marty McFly "Lighten up, dude." This thread's a joke, enjoy it whilst it lasts.

 

[King Harold]

I dont understand the preoccupation with race. I really dont.

I grew up an Asian kid in the early 80's in Australia and experienced stuff. But its 2024. Its not a factor. And never has been in my life.

My god, imagine thinking that the world is inherently racist and that you can attribute your lot in life because of your skin colour. Utterly galling.

That’s fantastic for you , it’s great you have grown up without too many issues. As it should be !
Asian people right across the board have been great for our country.

But have you experienced the South of the USA ?
Not all , but a significant proportion of the population is unabashedly racist.

I agree most people are not racist, but to dismiss it because you have largely had a good experience maybe a little naive.

 

[stefcep]

Just checking, the bank knocked back your loan cause you couldn’t service it ?

I didn't earn enough to make the repayments, yes.

As an aside, 20 years ago I was part of diabetic eye disease detection program in Melbeourne's West because the area had a disproportionate number of people going blind in the West due to diabetes. These people were all whites. Where was their white privilege in the health system?

 

[stefcep]

That’s fantastic for you , it’s great you have grown up without too many issues. As it should be !
Asian people right across the board have been great for our country.

But have you experienced the South of the USA ?
Not all , but a significant proportion of the population is unabashedly racist.

I agree most people are not racist, but to dismiss it because you have largely had a good experience maybe a little naive.

Yes but they are also poor, and poorly educated, with poor health outcomes and bigger social problems.

 

[stefcep]

I dont understand the preoccupation with race. I really dont.

I grew up an Asian kid in the early 80's in Australia and experienced stuff. But its 2024. Its not a factor. And never has been in my life.

My god, imagine thinking that the world is inherently racist and that you can attribute your lot in life because of your skin colour. Utterly galling.

Aah but you're ASIAN. Asians are the group next in the queue for earning the label of being privileged. Its already happening in the US. This is because Asians have strong stable families ties, respect hard work, are law-abiding value education and are driven to rise up the socio-econimic ladder and improve themselves unreliant on privileged middle class white activists to do it. The left is having none of that.

 

[King Harold]

I earn enough to make the repayments, yes.

As an aside, 20 years ago I was part of diabetic eye disease detection program in Melbeourne's West because the area had a disproportionate number of people going blind due to diabetes. These people were all whites. Where was their white privilege in the health system?

Not trying to provoke any argument.
But asked about the bank loan because I assume the bank should knock back a loan application if you can’t demonstrate the ability to service it, no matter the colour of your skin.
Seemed an odd way of making your point.

I think the issue is the word “ privilege “
And now a big talking point for the right wing podcasts , they love the phrase “ where’s the white privilege “
as if all bar white people have privileges !

The debate is not really about privilege, the question is are you discriminated against because you are different .
To argue there is no discrimination,I think is wrong, but it’s a very complex issue that I expect has been around since Noah started junior footy.

 

[King Harold]

Yes but they are also poor, and poorly educated, with poor health outcomes and bigger social problems.

Ok , they might be .
I assume you think that at least explains , maybe even justifies the racism ?

But you have lost the thread , go back to what I replied to.
If you can be bothered.