Roast The Problem That Remains With Our List

[roos_fanatic08]

Personally,I reckon Bryce's recruiting in general has been poor since 2009. In fact, one could argue that he has been dining out on the 2009 catch for a long time. The massive question marks that have appeared over Black and Basti this year even threaten Bryce's 2009 effort. They were expected to explode into stardom in 2014 - not regress into mediocrity. The same has happened with Mullet. The only stars-in-the-making to emerge since then are Atley and McDonald(father-son).
Relatively speaking, we have been standing still and banking on the classes of 06-07-08-09(which was excellent) to carry us into the next great era.
The lack of pace and class is poor recruiting and poor list management.
When Harvey, wells, Petrie and Dal retire, the poor recruiting since 2009 will bite into us like a Great White Shark.
The odd free agent isn't going to do the trick.
I've been saying this for a while: if we can't crack a flag in 2015-16, it aint gonna happen in the following decade.

I don't think that is Bryce's fault. He has been very solid with his picks over the last 5 years. A couple of misses but you can't expect a 100% success rate.

I feel it is our development of players that is really lacking. None of Ziebell, Cunnington, Atley, Mullet, Harper, Garner or basti have stepped up to the top echelon of footballers.

 

[King Corey]

is that the recruiting or the coaches not developing those players to be able to take the next step?

Bingo. It's starting to become apparent how many players have stagnated or gone backwards on this list.

I can't see how we can recruit particularly badly. Even a layman could apply a conservative approach and pick players based on u18 statistics, AA carnival form etc. You'd expect them to run at 50/50 with this approach.

Other than Geelong no one else really pulls off reaches (not reacharounds) consistently. Hawks have employed poaching more than canny drafting having burned quite a few draft picks along the way themselves.

In other words we're picking players generally rated around the pick we take them at if not earlier. After that it's development.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Adams wont get delisted after signing a 3 year contract... I would trade him instead and look for what we can get with McKenzie and McMahon. Anthony will be delisted.

he signed a 2 year contract. Mckenzie is a slow burner, but I'm convinced that with his skill-set he is worthwhile persisting with for at least 1 more season. Mcmahon and Anthony are gone for sure.

 

[King Corey]

I don't think that is Bryce's fault. He has been very solid with his picks over the last 5 years. A couple of misses but you can't expect a 100% success rate.

I feel it is our development of players that is really lacking. None of Ziebell, Cunnington, Atley, Mullet, Harper, Garner or basti have stepped up to the top echelon of footballers.

Snap.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Bingo. It's starting to become apparent how many players have stagnated or gone backwards on this list.

I can't see how we can recruit particularly badly. Even a layman could apply a conservative approach and pick players based on u18 statistics, AA carnival form etc. You'd expect them to run at 50/50 with this approach.

Other than Geelong no one else really pulls off reaches (not reacharounds) consistently. Hawks have employed poaching more than canny drafting having burned quite a few draft picks along the way themselves.

In other words we're picking players generally rated around the pick we take them at if not earlier. After that it's development.

My thoughts also.

There is really only 2 draft blunders that we have really seen over the past 6-7 years.
-Picking Sam Wright over Hannerbury and Dayne Beams in 2008
-Picking Liam Anthony over Rory Sloane in 2008

Other than those 2 instances I've been pretty happy with our picks.

I honestly believe our development of players is lacking. Considering how much the club has spent on Utah and the like we still have a number of players who are severely lacking the running power required to compete at AFL level. While our physical development of players is also sub standard, we have way too many skinny-ish players who hasn't put on enough size.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

My thoughts also.

There is really only 2 draft blunders that we have really seen over the past 6-7 years.
-Picking Sam Wright over Hannerbury and Dayne Beams in 2008
-Picking Liam Anthony over Rory Sloane in 2008

Other than those 2 instances I've been pretty happy with our picks.

I honestly believe our development of players is lacking. Considering how much the club has spent on Utah and the like we still have a number of players who are severely lacking the running power required to compete at AFL level. While our physical development of players is also sub standard, we have way too many skinny-ish players who hasn't put on enough size.

It's the Saunders 10 year plan.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

It's the Saunders 10 year plan.

all well and good, but when you see the GWS kids already beefed up and holding their ground against men I find it incredibly frustrating. McKenzie, bastinac Garner and Wright are those that stand out the most to me. They haven't really grown much considering how long they have been in the system.

 

[King Corey]

My thoughts also.

There is really only 2 draft blunders that we have really seen over the past 6-7 years.
-Picking Sam Wright over Hannerbury and Dayne Beams in 2008
-Picking Liam Anthony over Rory Sloane in 2008

Other than those 2 instances I've been pretty happy with our picks.

I honestly believe our development of players is lacking. Considering how much the club has spent on Utah and the like we still have a number of players who are severely lacking the running power required to compete at AFL level. While our physical development of players is also sub standard, we have way too many skinny-ish players who hasn't put on enough size.

Even with your examples, who knows?

Sam Wright would've entered the Collingwood system circa 2009-10 that made plenty of blokes look far better than they were.

Dane Beams has some queries over his general lifestyle. At a club like North he might've been allowed more concessions and not been the hard running skilled athlete that he did at Collingwood.

Therefore I'm heavily favouring development and general player discipline/expectations as our weaknesses over recruiting.

 

[Wild Kangaroo]

We lack class.

I don't reckon we lack class, It's IMO that we just dont use it. Its either lazyness, or not going in hard enough. After Saturday nights' game, One thing is that I noticed we are slow, very slow. Geelong ran us off our legs.

 

[Jack Bradley]

Adams wont get delisted after signing a 3 year contract... I would trade him instead and look for what we can get with McKenzie and McMahon. Anthony will be delisted.

You seriously think another team would want McMahon on their team?

 

[kingcarey1]

Adams wont get delisted after signing a 3 year contract... I would trade him instead and look for what we can get with McKenzie and McMahon. Anthony will be delisted.

Package them up for a bowl of lukewarm soup. That's about market value.

 

[scooby1279]

You seriously think another team would want McMahon on their team?

with his experience gws or gc he may be alright for them. obviously none will give us round 1,2 or 3 selection but 4th rounder or exchange picks etc may work.

 

[Jack Bradley]

with his experience gws or gc he may be alright for them. obviously none will give us round 1,2 or 3 selection but 4th rounder or exchange picks etc may work.

Yeah nah - they are past the "recruiting old past it players" stage.

I cant believe how many players have gone backwards/Nowhere this year.

Gone backwards
Ziebel
Black
Petrie
Mullet
Thomas
Thompson
Goldstien
Adams
Bastinac

Going nowhere
Haper
Currie
Anthony
McKenzie
Jacobs
Wright (has played some good games, but also some shockers)

Improved
Harvey
Gibson
Nahas (over his richmond form)
Atley (from what i have seen)
Cunnington
Hanson (still doing a solid job)

I have left out players who have been injured/first year.

Our list is not is a good place right now.

 

[Black2Blue]

Yeah nah - they are past the "recruiting old past it players" stage.

I cant believe how many players have gone backwards/Nowhere this year.

Gone backwards
Ziebel
Black
Petrie
Mullet
Thomas
Thompson
Goldstien
Adams
Bastinac

Going nowhere
Haper
Currie
Anthony
McKenzie
Jacobs
Wright (has played some good games, but also some shockers)

Improved
Harvey
Gibson
Nahas (over his richmond form)
Atley (from what i have seen)
Cunnington
Hanson (still doing a solid job)

I have left out players who have been injured/first year.

Our list is not is a good place right now.

Would just add one more list

Most Improved
Levi Greenwood
the beacon of light in a dull northern sky

 

[King Corey]

Would just add one more list

Most Improved
Levi Greenwood
the beacon of light in a dull northern sky

"He knows he's still got a few things to work on"

 

[Black2Blue]

"He knows he's still got a few things to work on"

yeah, like deciding whether or not to re-sign after a couple of years of shabby treatment by Coach.

 

[Jack Bradley]

Would just add one more list

Most Improved
Levi Greenwood
the beacon of light in a dull northern sky

Ah yes sorry i missed him - hes been awesome Who knows - maybe another club might poach him from us . Is he still unsigned?

 

[archereleven]

Heres one of the problems:

Vickery has 23 goals from 12 games. 1 more than Black from 18 games.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Would just add one more list

Most Improved
Levi Greenwood
the beacon of light in a dull northern sky

last year in these type threads no one would want Levi and he was worthless on the trade table, maybe as steak knives I recall someone saying. Just shows a good pre-season can make a world of difference.

 

[scooby1279]

Heres one of the problems:

Vickery has 23 goals from 12 games. 1 more than Black from 18 games.

WOW, just WOW.... how many does Petrie have?

 

[Heaps of fun]

Heres one of the problems:

Vickery has 23 goals from 12 games. 1 more than Black from 18 games.

Black's having a bad year and Vickery's year has been marred by a couple of stinkers and suspensions. He hasn't actually been playing that badly.

 

[archereleven]

WOW, just WOW.... how many does Petrie have?

Petrie has kicked 30-21 but is ranked 5th in the league for CM

 

[Twinkletoes]

The biggest problem is the one highlighted on one of the footy chat shows on Monday night. They had two ladders side by side. One was the AFL ladder as it currently stands and the other was the order of clubs and their "pressure acts". The top five correlated exactly the same, with the top sides all being the top five "pressure act" sides in order as well. We stand in 6th on the actual ladder but 17th for "pressure acts".

 

[kingcarey1]

The biggest problem is the one highlighted on one of the footy chat shows on Monday night. They had two ladders side by side. One was the AFL ladder as it currently stands and the other was the order of clubs and their "pressure acts". The top five correlated exactly the same, with the top sides all being the top five "pressure act" sides in order as well. We stand in 6th on the actual ladder but 17th for "pressure acts".

Too many plebs in our current 22 have been gifted games their entire career. Why put out maximum effort when you know you’ll still get your paycheck next weekend?

I’m looking at you Bastinac, Cunnington and Adams (you have a lot of friends too!!). Bring in Harper, Dumont, with a whisper in their ear “show you want it”

 

[King Corey]

The biggest problem is the one highlighted on one of the footy chat shows on Monday night. They had two ladders side by side. One was the AFL ladder as it currently stands and the other was the order of clubs and their "pressure acts". The top five correlated exactly the same, with the top sides all being the top five "pressure act" sides as well. We stand in 6th on the actual ladder but 17th for "pressure acts".

That possibly explains why we never feel convincing to the naked eye. We've taken some good scalps head to head but don't really look and act like a genuinely strong side.

It's good to have this exposed and in some ways comforts some of us that anecdotally suspected this side is uncommitted but had no stat to back it up.