The Pumpa has lost it.

[sgbn77]

This recruiting team and the one beforehand, put together the side that won the 2008 grandfinal, and 12 months later you're calling for their heads!

I knew there was a reason I hated the general public!!

As Adelaide Hawk stated above, lets just take a chill pill. Dean Cox played in an underperforming team this year. Sandilands absolutely dominates, and Freo suck. We won a flag with two serviceable well coached ruckman, and Collingwood landed top 4 with Fraser and Wood. What does this all mean??? A ruckman is a nice to have. He has to be able to compete. Sometimes he has to be able to nillify. But its the little blokes around his feet that make the difference, and quite frankly, we've got some of the best, most competitive and well coached mids in the league.

The National Draft is a vehicle to build your club for the future. Even the bloke who started this thread has subsequently acknowledged that outside of Rioli and Renouf...rarely do your players have an impact the following year. I can think of Selwood coming straight in. I can think of a few number 1 and 2 draft picks (obviously), but lets not lose our minds that our players won't be having immediate impacts.

The reason we won the flag in 2008 is despite having some absolute guns in Franklin, Mitchell, Hodge, etc, our real improvement came from Bateman, Ladson, Ossie, etc...blokes with near on 100 games under their belt. This will continue to be the way.

And to those people who are losing their nut over not picking up Matt Macguire...I'm not going to lie to you, I was also a bit interested in picking him up...but he slid through to practically one of the last picks of the draft, and even then, was only picked up by freakin' Voss (who appears to have found the Dennis Pagan Manual on Rebuilding lying around). So maybe after all our conjecture, he HAS in fact lost too much pace and has the turning circle of a jumbo jet. Mature aged, strong bodied defenders are not all one and the same. Gone are the days of Gehrig sitting in the goal square asking for the ball to be dropped on his head. You have to be big these days, but you HAVE to be able to run quickly. As a result, sometimes you really just need a guy who is pacey and can get to the fall of the ball. Hawthorn has the runs on the board to have noticed when the game is changing, and sometimes we're the reason it changes.

Give our guys some credit, and stop expecting Jesus Christ to be available at pick 39.

The National Draft excites me because we've built for the future, we've got defenders and we've got rucks who will learn their trade with us. We also did very well in trade week with a goddamn BURGOYNE now playing for us, and Gibson to shore up the backline. We still have the PSD, so maybe we will get a ruckman, but he'll only be a backup, if that.

Mark my words, the Hawks are having a tilt this year, and we'll be singing their praises by July.

 

[TimmehJC"]

So this is a thread ranting about why we didn't pick up an immobile backman who just spent a year playing forward in the reserves and still has some major injury concerns, another backman who has shown promised, but is now 23 and still only really got on the park for 1 season and a hack back up ruckman?
Yes, we will probably have to take some sort of ruckman in the rookie draft, but pretty much an insurance policy, because whoever we got was never going to be a starting ruckman.
Maguire would not have got a game, unless Gibbo or Gilham went down.
Smith, unlikely to play more than 50 games.
Pattison, ok, but was delisted by Richmond.
I'm really failing to see what we've missed out on.
Instead we've made moves to sure up our ruck department in the future, as well as our backline.
Our window is not closing, we have a forward line based on two 22 year olds and a little 20 year old. Our Midfield still has plenty of youth, and we've now just added youth to the backline and rucks.
Pelch seems to be building a team for sustained success, continuous building to avoid having to bottom out. Whoever we picked up in the draft was unlikely to change our best 22 (and probably our best 28) for the next season, except for Smith if he got fit.

Just to quickly break it down
Rucks - Starting with Taylor and Renouf with hopefully Bails back towards to end of the season, then Lowden and the new bloke, probably something in the Rookie draft to fill the gap between Renouf and Lowden.
Midfield - Hodge, Mitch etc. Young guys - WhiteX, Sav, Shiels,
Forwards - Just awesome
Backline - Gibbo, Gilham, Shoe as the bigmen, Birch, Goo, Laddo - pretty happy.

I don't understand how you could expect us to be drafting guns when our first pick wasn't until 39. If it makes it easier, just look at it as we had already taken junior burger and Gibbo before that.

 

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

This recruiting team and the one beforehand, put together the side that won the 2008 grandfinal, and 12 months later you're calling for their heads!

I knew there was a reason I hated the general public!!

As Adelaide Hawk stated above, lets just take a chill pill. Dean Cox played in an underperforming team this year. Sandilands absolutely dominates, and Freo suck. We won a flag with two serviceable well coached ruckman, and Collingwood landed top 4 with Fraser and Wood. What does this all mean??? A ruckman is a nice to have. He has to be able to compete. Sometimes he has to be able to nillify. But its the little blokes around his feet that make the difference, and quite frankly, we've got some of the best, most competitive and well coached mids in the league.

The National Draft is a vehicle to build your club for the future. Even the bloke who started this thread has subsequently acknowledged that outside of Rioli and Renouf...rarely do your players have an impact the following year. I can think of Selwood coming straight in. I can think of a few number 1 and 2 draft picks (obviously), but lets not lose our minds that our players won't be having immediate impacts.

The reason we won the flag in 2008 is despite having some absolute guns in Franklin, Mitchell, Hodge, etc, our real improvement came from Bateman, Ladson, Ossie, etc...blokes with near on 100 games under their belt. This will continue to be the way.

And to those people who are losing their nut over not picking up Matt Macguire...I'm not going to lie to you, I was also a bit interested in picking him up...but he slid through to practically one of the last picks of the draft, and even then, was only picked up by freakin' Voss (who appears to have found the Dennis Pagan Manual on Rebuilding lying around). So maybe after all our conjecture, he HAS in fact lost too much pace and has the turning circle of a jumbo jet. Mature aged, strong bodied defenders are not all one and the same. Gone are the days of Gehrig sitting in the goal square asking for the ball to be dropped on his head. You have to be big these days, but you HAVE to be able to run quickly. As a result, sometimes you really just need a guy who is pacey and can get to the fall of the ball. Hawthorn has the runs on the board to have noticed when the game is changing, and sometimes we're the reason it changes.

Give our guys some credit, and stop expecting Jesus Christ to be available at pick 39.

The National Draft excites me because we've built for the future, we've got defenders and we've got rucks who will learn their trade with us. We also did very well in trade week with a goddamn BURGOYNE now playing for us, and Gibson to shore up the backline. We still have the PSD, so maybe we will get a ruckman, but he'll only be a backup, if that.

Mark my words, the Hawks are having a tilt this year, and we'll be singing their praises by July.

Post that saves the thread.



Best to remember this is the last time we'll get a decent drink at the well for a while so it's better to fill a 44 with water rather than grab a six pack of Coke.

The Coke might be refreshing, but will run out quickly and only leave you really thirsty.

The 44 of water will be harder to handle at first, but it will see you the journey in great shape.

 

[Nightwolf]

Shutup, seriously. Youve got no idea.

I for one dont want recycled hacks clogging up space when they simply either are too injury prone, or CRAP!

Youve never seen anyone of our players selected (Bar Hooper, and i reckon youve only seen 1 minute footage of him too), but you can make a judgment? Turn it up...

 

[TalkBox]

Poor analogy.

Pick 5 in 2004, compared to picks in the stratosphere in 2009.

FWIW, I am neither an apologist nor a critic.

The only absolute fact we have is that the Hawthorn staff know our need better than us, and have access to better information than us.

Is that true or not?

Then why the angst?

Good post.

Another problem with the off-season, blokes spend too much time reading up on juniors and attaching actual AFL standards to names such as Vardy, Trengove, Gawn etc. Remember none of the blokes picked yesterday have proven themselves at AFL level, we (as in BigFooty, the casual observer) have no idea how any of them will adapt, certainly when compared to the AFL recruiters.

All we get fed here is match write ups bigging up junior players because we are all bored and need something to get excited about. So we didn't pick up 'big name' junior players, so what? None of them are AFL proven yet, lets review it in a few years. Actually, it's handy at this point to remember we did pick up SHAUN BURGOYNE a month ago, I guess you could consider him on par with the super talents of Tom Scully or Dustin Martin...

 

[ACTion Hawks]

It's funny, but a few years ago I used to get so excited by the draft, for exactly the reasons you are saying (and we had lots of low draft picks).

The thing is, I have seen none of the juniors play and am willing to admit I have NFI to their potential. Yet here I am feeling disappointed that our draftees are not highly rated by the Hun, Matt Burgan or some other journo or self-proclaimed expert. How stupid am I?

The hard thing with the draft is it is like being given a picture of a toy for Xmas, but not getting to play with it for at least four months (and that is for the exceptional starters like Junior) and generally not for about two years!!

Time to take a chill pill and leave it to the experts

 

[Neville Bartos]

How boring would this place be if people took a chill pill? Let the madness continue!

 

[grizzlym]

How boring would this place be if people took a chill pill? Let the madness continue!

Ah yes, have to agree. But I feel compelled to issue a warning saved for times like this:

 

[thebiff]

What a terrible original post. What did you expect, to have heard of every 18yo kid we drafted or something?

 

[Pharaoh]

Although most of us are ignorant of the talent available in the draft, I occasionally share the frustrations of those who've criticised our drafting. The odds of a kid picked 40+ becoming an AFL footballer are incredibly low (less than 5%?). That makes recycled players far less risky - even injury prone ones. I also speculate that recruiters who spend all year watching the kids will have a bias for kids over recycled players simply because it justifies their efforts - that's just human nature. The fact that a player of the calibre of Ben Cousins was left to the final pick of last year's PSD was a mystery to me and he's probably now Richmond's best player. Yes, he had risks, but imagine the depth he would have added to our midfield at the cost of a late pick in the 2008 national draft. Similarly, it amazes me that any club with a pick between 15 and 29 overlooked Luke Ball for a highly speculative kid - what were they thinking?? If more than one kid picked in the 20's becomes a serious AFL player I will eat my keyboard.

That being said, it is clear from our draft choices that we have a cunning plan. We have looked for the primary requisites of SPEED and KICKING ABILITY. All the kids we picked have these qualities. After all, a kid can look fabulous at under 18 level playing against boys, but may not have the physical talents to make it in the AFL.

Even though Grimley has only played four games at TAC level, the club obviously believes that his attributes (height, speed, agility, kicking ability, vertical leap, work ethic and competitiveness) will eventually make him the best ruckman of those that were available at pick 39. I am happy to back their judgement, given the success they've had in recent years.

It also appears that after being burnt by quite a few injury plagued players (Muston, Dowler, Thorp, Dew, Croad etc) that we aren't prepared to take a risk right on adding more injury prone players, despite their proven football ability (e.g. Jesse Smith, Matt McGuire). That may prove to be a bad decision, but I respect the club's judgement and understand why they have become more risk averse. No point in having a talented list if they are sitting on the sidelines most of the time.

I'm almost certain we will take one of Putt, Cloke or Meeson as a mature age rookie. It will be interesting to see who we get with the other rookie pick.

It is also worth remembering that the Gold Coast and West Sydney will be raping the next few drafts of all the best young kids, so we are obviously stockpiling as many kids as we can right now and may need to look at recycled players as stopgaps both next year and the year after.

 

[Arkadia]

How boring would this place be if people took a chill pill? Let the madness continue!

From Madness comes HOPE. Have faith my fellow Hawkers

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

How many times have you seen the kids we drafted play?

In Pumpa's defence, unless you were down watching the Caulfield Grammar side's games, you would hardly have seen Grimley.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

Mate, I don't give two shits what you or Jim from Hawthorn think of our draft because unless you're an AFL recruiter, you'd have no idea - just like me.

Let's just wait and see how they go before we start rubbishing them.

well said !

support the ones we got 100%
i could not do better and i know you sure could not do any better pumpa!

i guess you had your heart set on someone i was hoping GAWN would get through but sadly he was GAWN before he got to us and that is life you win some you lose some

 

[monhawks]

well said !

support the ones we got 100%
i could not do better and i know you sure could not do any better pumpa!

Well said also. Mappa

The comments about our premiership window being open and we need to draft for now are very short sighted. We basically won a flag before our time and went into this season with the youngest list in the AFL. Our window is open for years to come particularly with the new teams coming in. Our timing for a rebuilding program couldn't have been better when it started 5 years ago. The current dual premiership Cats side is loaded with players who've been around for 10 years plus. Have some patience and trust those who've already given you so much with a flag in 2008. They're very hard to win .Just ask the Bulldogs or Saints fans.We'll be very strong next year and even better in the 4 or 5 years after that. All them injuries last year just fast tracked a lot of our younger players ,similar to the Dons of the mid to late 90's.

 

[Brown Blood]

In Pumpa's defence, unless you were down watching the Caulfield Grammar side's games, you would hardly have seen Grimley.
ve

Not really.

The thing is our recruiters have seen him play, as well as many other potential draft picks - and after evaluating all the data chose him for that pick

Their decision can be considered informed as a result - I have not expressed an opinion regarding his pick apart from the fact that I don't know but have faith in those that do (untill I have further information).

 

[Trent Berger]

3 weeks ago I spoke to one of the VFL watchers. He told me forget Maguire. Wiiling but the legs are not up to it. He will be good at the second level but he is not able to do or react like he used to. I said what about the fact he has now had the rod taken out- reply was "I hope it helps but..."

As for Jesse Smith - he said the kid is an absolute gun. Used to be able to weave magic. It is a crying shame what has happened to him. he said he had heard the hawks were originally keen but the tests weren't flash.

As for Mr Hooper. His advice was you only will have to delist 2 more next year. Can he play - yes. Is he a nutcase - most probably.

If we can turn him a round he said at his age it would be the biggest coup this decade. Last time a player had such a bad attitude the club said see you and he went to Myrtleford. Ended up wearing number 5 for Geelong..... could play a bit!

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but which decisions have they consulted members over recently?

Eh?

He pays money to be a member. The club makes whatever decisions.

It's his right to question them.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

Eh?

He pays money to be a member. The club makes whatever decisions.

It's his right to question them.

the question is would the ones he wanted be good for us or not maybe yes maybe no yes be disappointed if you like that they did not go for who you wanted have no probs but here and there people are going mad at the picks why i do not know cause as i said earlier we could not do any better
he said

I am fumming out of my head with the players that Hawthorn has selected.

why be angry at something you can not control yes be disappointed that we missed picks that he thought were ones we needed

In a period our window is open & gaps to fill I cannot believe that we let Macguire, Smith & a ready made ruckman slip. Used our first pick on a guy who has played 3 games & other players who I have never heard of & will not be ready to play next year.

he does not know why they did not pick smith maybe there was an underling problem that pumpa does not know about and Macguire mmmm not sure if he would have been what we wanted ! he may not last long who knows but i am happy we did not pick him to be honest !
i would take the young unknowns over him any day !

anyway support the club 100% in what they do yes ask questions and opinions,
but there is no point getting angery at somthing you can not change

 

[Mcchawk]

Dude where's my car

 

[WooDawg]

The Dawg is fuming! Really unhappy that Pelch didn't pick up Shadforth with pick 69. Better luck next year Gary.

 

[Davo23]

I am fumming out of my head with the players that Hawthorn has selected.

In a period our window is open & gaps to fill I cannot believe that we let Macguire, Smith & a ready made ruckman slip. Used our first pick on a guy who has played 3 games & other players who I have never heard of & will not be ready to play next year. If anything he is a project player. Benjamin Stratton sounds like a good prospect (20 year old wafl player). Pelchen said that he is in the mould of a Darren Glass type defender, who sticks to his opponents & can spoil from behind which is great to hear. I would expect him to play next year.

To think with pick 39 that we passed on James Craig & Hardy is astonishing.

Didn't make a play for Smith @ pick 57 or 58.

Rhan hooper - can sort of see the reason for the selection, he excites me a little but we picked up one ex brisbane player last year and he was delisted this year. I hope hooper picks up his game & behaves & brings more to the hawks forward line.

Matt Maguire could of been the fix down back if he was fit. Vossy reckons he will be right to go & what a steal @ pick 91.

I have never felt so frustrated before. Trust in Hawthorn selectors I have had for all years & never doubted them, this year has scared the pants of me.

Do we even have a pick in the PD??? I think we need to delist a player to participate.

Yep, just look at the past mistakes:

• Tambling is killing it at Richmond.
• Hodge? What a mistake that was.
• Cyril: we could have taken a ruckman that year
• Buddy: one Coleman and he's finished.

The list goes on and on.


The Hawks have no idea - I vote Pumpa as the recruiting genius !


.

 

[BYWs Dimi Pumpa]

Yep, just look at the past mistakes:

• Tambling is killing it at Richmond.
• Hodge? What a mistake that was.
• Cyril: we could have taken a ruckman that year
• Buddy: one Coleman and he's finished.

The list goes on and on.


The Hawks have no idea - I vote Pumpa as the recruiting genius !

Trust in Hawthorn selectors I have had for all years & never doubted them, this year has scared the pants of me.

.

I have loved the way the recruiters have went about things Pelcho & co has done a super job in previous years, just this year concerned me. We didn't get a C for no reason from the supporters in HS poll.

 

[Cheeseman]

Supporters poll? Dude, supporters are just people, and as a rule, people are stupid.

 

[grizzlym]

We didn't get a C for no reason from the supporters in HS poll.

Mmmm, I actually know Kevin Rudd and he reads the Herald Sun from cover to cover. He pays particular attention to the fifty/fifty column on the letters page, where the public expouse their wisdom on crucial issues.

He models his policy decisions on what he reads in there. If it's good enough for Ruddy it's good enough for our recruiters.

 

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

Here Dimi Pumpa - I have found it for you, you can chill out now.