Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[SaintsSeptember]

No they have all been shafted tradies and customs

Porter Davis have most definitely scammed customers and tradies for the last 6 months

Just astonishing

If its trading insolvent , isn't that a jail term for those involved?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Never ever going to happen , they were just talking sh1t

Well they mentioned someone high up that how tries every single year to get it either back or another one
The state has never stopped trying apparently

Tbh I’m not fussed
We went in high school but it doesn’t really interest me now
Give me Mansel senna Prost PK etc

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Fancy thinking a bloke that’s worked his whole life employs 4 blokes trained up a dozen apprentices over the years , that’s it’s ok that he has been shafted because he has made a living for himself

Its the same with lots of businesses.
You make more money, but you open yourself up to a lot more risk.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Getting amongst the Kink Salmon up at Karumba.

 

[CursingFijian]

Hope you come out the other side ok.

I’m out the other side. But it hasn’t been easy, staying on top of bankruptcy proceedings while you’re having to work twice as hard to make ground caused by said bankruptcy is not easy. Lots of days where I’ve sent the boys home and put in 3 or 4 extra hours in diminishing light just so that I can afford to pay my crew.

I reckon the system needs an overhaul. Staff wages and superannuation should always be the first things cleared.

Then creditors should get first dibs at a bankruptcy auction, where we can bid for items up to the value of our verified debt.

Under that system I would have happily bid $27k for a couple of computers, a printer and a desk knowing that the alternative is to get very close to zero.

The issue, in my mind, is that the liquidator doesn’t like that approach because there’s less cash to fleece before he throws the crumbs to the creditors. I hope I’m not offending anybody here when I say that, but my experience has led me to genuinely believe that.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m out the other side. But it hasn’t been easy, staying on top of bankruptcy proceedings while you’re having to work twice as hard to make ground caused by said bankruptcy is not easy. Lots of days where I’ve sent the boys home and put in 3 or 4 extra hours in diminishing light just so that I can afford to pay my crew.

I reckon the system needs an overhaul. Staff wages and superannuation should always be the first things cleared.

Then creditors should get first dibs at a bankruptcy auction, where we can bid for items up to the value of our verified debt.

Under that system I would have happily bid $27k for a couple of computers, a printer and a desk knowing that the alternative is to get very close to zero.

The issue, in my mind, is that the liquidator doesn’t like that approach because there’s less cash to fleece before he throws the crumbs to the creditors. I hope I’m not offending anybody here when I say that, but my experience has led me to genuinely believe that.

The real difficulty in the building industry is the sheer number of contractors.
The actual staff are probably paid out, but how many are there? 100 or 200? There would be way more contractors than that.

If it was a normal thing, where the debt and the cash flow got out of hand, it could be fixed by administrators taking over, negotiating price hikes for buyers, and deals with contractors to complete the work , before winding up the business. Means the customers and everyone else would be a "bit" out of pocket, but not devastated.
But if, and its possible they have , they've been spending deposits from construction that hasn't started to keep paying debts, then that is really shonky and just makes the whole thing a massive mess.

I don't envy the liquidators, or administrators, they get paid to be the villains and to make the best out of something that can't be made good.
Imagine all the building sites involved, equipment belonging to all sorts of people ( how traceable is it )? with everyone angry and wanting it right now, but them not knowing who is the legitimate owner of anything. They can't just go, " oh you say that's your cement mixer , off you go with it then ".
Ownership of unused material is something i don't agree with ,even though the law may say otherwise.
Especially if its something like timber , where it will perish on the ground, yet they don't let the supplier take it away and use it.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Getting amongst the Kink Salmon up at Karumba.

Whatever floats ya boat Saintos

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Whatever floats ya boat Saintos

Haha typo

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Haha typo

That's a shame.

I reckon CaptainRisky would've been reel keen to haul in some Kinky Salmon

 

[CaptainRisky]

Getting amongst the Kink Salmon up at Karumba. View attachment 1651338View attachment 1651339

No crocs where i was this week but it sure was nice

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I have read some absolutely rubbish on here over the years but that’s up there

Yeah only blokes in suits should make money lol

The suits should earn less.
Some know less than the coalface and yet get paid more.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

 

[Saintos The ITK]

There were actually quite a few crocs about. More than I’ve ever seen.

 

[BigPowerForward]

I’m a tradie who has lost money, and the system is so ed, it has literally made me cry in my Ute on my way to work for *** weeks! Man tears too, the kind you quickly wipe dry so nobody can see, because you have to be strong, and end up just bottling it all inside.

One business asked me to deliver materials on a Friday, knowing full well that their gates were getting padlocked that day, and that I would never get paid for them. ******* criminal imo.

Another I was working 5 stories up and had all my tools locked up on site and had to literally fight the administrators security just to get them back so I could get to another job and try to patch together some semblance of a cash flow.

On another job the owner builder asked me to do something post build that was off plan (he wanted an attic space) and once I’d formed it he refused to pay because it wasn’t shown on the plan. He was a lawyer in a ******* mansion in Nedlands overlooking the Swan. He had money coming out his ears, and chose not to pay me because he thought he could get away with it. What a campaigner.

i get so many clients who think I should throw in extra work for free just because they’re paying me for work done. It’s like St Kilda asking the trainee receptionist to vacuum the floors because theyre doing him the favour of paying his receptionist wage. Then they get affronted if you have the dignity to say no.

But worst of all are the liquidators. They send me a document introducing themselves which includes a schedule of rates. The work experience kid that is just packing s**t in boxes and who aspires to get an accounting degree they charge out at nearly $60 an hour. The rates go up on a sliding scale to the head honcho who is getting paid upward of $500 an hour. When all is said and done the final report always somehow shows that the liquidators fees miraculously match the entire cash in bank held by the bankrupt entity. And we get asked to accept 3 cents in the dollar as final payment. Meanwhile everything from that business has been sold at auction for a pittance. I was owed $27k for material and labour on one job and called the liquidator and said that I would gladly write that off if I could just get back my unused material on site (worth maybe 5 or 6k). No surprise the answer was no and likely because they know they can screw me even further.

On the 5 storey job, the developer ended up engaging a new builder and they rang me to finish the job. I asked will I be getting paid for the material and labour previously supplied and invoiced, but they said no. I didn’t want to go back to a site that literally made me nauseous so I declined and they paid someone else to finish the job using my material. It makes me feel outraged to this day.

The whole system feels like it is setup to protect the former employees (fair enough) and then the liquidators. Get ****ed I say.

Now people get stroppy with me when I ask for materials to be paid prior to delivery. Or if I stop work because labour invoices haven’t been settled in a timely manner.

I swear to god tradies are underwriting a massive chunk of a lot of builds.

We had a customer declare bankruptcy, then opened up a couple weeks later under another name. They owed us over $18,000. They came to us a couple of months later wanting to buy stock. My intial response was GAGF, but then I realised every one of their suppliers would have said the same thing, so I told them they needed to prepay every order and I made them pay full retail for everything. That was over 10 years ago, and we have recouped the $18000 plus a hell of a lot more, and I'm still getting the satisfaction of making them pay up front and full retail.

 

[Sun Ra]

View attachment 1651515

Nice catch mate !

 

[Mowman]

Some Aussies off to good starts

 

[pebblesofsand]

If its trading insolvent , isn't that a jail term for those involved?

Virtually never happens. You could count on one hand (actually probably one finger) the number of people jailed on trading insolvent charges over the last 20 years.

Mostly they get fined - or get slapped on the wrist and get banned from being a director for a year or two.

White collar crime - apparently nobody got hurt!!!!

 

[gringo2011]

Virtually never happens. You could count on one hand (actually probably one finger) the number of people jailed on trading insolvent charges over the last 20 years.

Mostly they get fined - or get slapped on the wrist and get banned from being a director for a year or two.

White collar crime - apparently nobody got hurt!!!!

Pretty much just means you have a couple of years where you have to put the directorship in someone else's name. Pissy fines that the pricks have probably set aside while seeing the writing on the wall.

We have become a lot less regulated in the last 20 years especially in the building industry. Lots of self regulation means that cowboys can do what ever they want and leave the shit for the tax payer to clean up. The flammable cladding shit for example.

 

[StFly]

Virtually never happens. You could count on one hand (actually probably one finger) the number of people jailed on trading insolvent charges over the last 20 years.

Mostly they get fined - or get slapped on the wrist and get banned from being a director for a year or two.

White collar crime - apparently nobody got hurt!!!!

Also doubt porter davis were that stupid to write down "today I stiffed John by charging him 240k on a build I was never going to authorise as meeting Tim tomorrow. LOL" to you know, remove doubt how screwy their processes actually were in the end.

Given the amount of these groups that are on precipice or already folded, my money is on wrist slapping and "well, sort it out with your bank..." type responses.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Also doubt porter davis were that stupid to write down "today I stiffed John by charging him 240k on a build I was never going to authorise as meeting Tim tomorrow. LOL" to you know, remove doubt how screwy their processes actually were in the end.

Given the amount of these groups that are on precipice or already folded, my money is on wrist slapping and "well, sort it out with your bank..." type responses.

According to ASIC, the definition of insolvency is "..having insufficient money to pay your debts when they are due."

Lots and lots of people should have gone to jail if they actually enforced that definition.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Some of the stuff overseas is just scary numbers.

Evergrande Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SaintsSeptember]

According to ASIC, the definition of insolvency is "..having insufficient money to pay your debts when they are due."

Lots and lots of people should have gone to jail if they actually enforced that definition.

If you're collecting down payments for one house, and using the money to buy what you need for another, it gets pretty obvious.
The normal financial records should reveal this.

Ever read about the original Ponzi?

Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Its kind of fascinating to the point that someone should make a movie about him. I just can't get my head around how someone can be like that.
Not just being such an arseh*le to take everyone's money but to be stupid enough to think it could work? What did he think the end game was , or was he just living for the now?

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Nice catch mate !

I had the best catch on earth at Batemans Bay. I somehow caught a juvenile Bream that was the size of a goldfish. Not though the mouth like normal. Skewered it though the tail.

 

[George]

I had the best catch on earth at Batemans Bay. I somehow caught a juvenile Bream that was the size of a goldfish. Not though the mouth like normal. Skewered it though the tail.

Naughty little thing. Did you get her number?

 

[Sully111]

psssst





last one




ever




f'real