WSYD The reality of the Western Sydney challenge

[RUNVS]

I've seen Sydney Swans ads plenty of times this year on Foxtel, telling me to "be lifted" by players like Adam Goodes, Dan Hannebury, Ben McGlynn and Kieren Jack. Do they not put these ads on FTA television in NSW?

Not nearly as often. I mostly see those ads when i am watching a AFL related talk show on foxtel.

 

[Blackas87]

Head in the sand Mate!

With your attitude there would be no AFL and you would have a second rate broke VFL slowly dying on its feet and our own game in peril itself.

The only way forward for Australian Football is to expand into the areas were it has less penetration and Western Sydney is one of them and if in the future clubs like yours are badly managed and not viable then they should go out of existence like any badly run business.

You should be more worried about Melbourne surviving than anything that happens to GWS.

I would also hope that down the track the AFL has clubs in places like NZ and South Africa.

Football in Victoria is as strong as ever and it was strong for over 100 years without the other states being involved with us, but thats not my argument, i love having a national competition and would love to have more teams all over Australia but only if the support is there, if the sport grows at a grassroots level then yes put a team there, Aussie Rules is massive in Tasmania and the Northern Teritory with out ever having a team at the highest level so you dont need a AFL team to grow the sport.

THe swans have been in Sydney for nearly 30 years and the still have fewer members than victorias lowest club North Melbourne, in a city of 4.5million people the can only get 27000 members over 30 years after winning the premership a few years ago, to me it seems like the whole Sydney venture has been badly managed, my team Melbourne has 37000 members coming off no finals in 5 years including 2 wooden spoons i would say we are far ahead of the swans yet its always us vic clubs in the firing line of being poorly run.

Yes i would love Aussie Rules to be played in New Zealand, South Africa and the rest of the world, but the rest of the world doesn't play these sports the play others and they are happy with it so i dont see why we should make them play it.

The cake is MINE and you can't have ANY of it!

That's exactly what you are saying.

Why not spread our game? Why deprive the MAJORITY of Australians from enjoying the best sport in the world?

No thats not what im saying, everyone in Australia knows Aussie rules footy, and if they want to play it they can, reality is that people from NSW and Qld have chosen rugby to play, there are teams in there regions if they want to go to games and watch just like here we can watch the storm play in the NRL if we want but the most of us have chosen not to, the people in sydey can go to the afl but most choose not to.

as well as in NSW , QLD and NZ .

Yes but the sport has never taken off there.

 

[Sydney_gazza]

An interesting point. How immediate do you think the demand for success will be?

As a lifelong footy fan, I know that growing and evolving a successful team takes time and actually enjoy the journey as much as they ultimate success. I've got huge satisfaction from seeing guys like Todd Goldstein come on this year, watching Jack Ziebell blossom etc.

Do you think the WS support base will demand very quick success lest they lose interest?

Because obviously, this will affect how the AFL deals with them.

Yep. Almost instant success is needed. It's a congested marketplace, NRL is engrained in people's minds and alot of local juniors play for the teams in the West. Hayne, Jennings etc will always get the attention and sell papers. A few instant finals appearances and a possible flag will change that.

It won't be a quick exercise

 

[cos789]

Football in Victoria is as strong as ever and it was strong for over 100 years without the other states being involved .

Totally wrong .The AFL arose because Victorians weren't content to recruit only Victorians .The further you go back in history then the stronger the other leagues were in comparison with that in Victoria .

i love having a national competition and would love to have more teams all over Australia but only if the support is there, if the sport grows at a grassroots level then yes put a team there, .

Both NSW and QLD have a lot more football paticipants than WA or SA now giving rise to the two new AFL teams .

Aussie Rules is massive in Tasmania and the Northern Teritory with out ever having a team at the highest level so you dont need a AFL team to grow the sport.

But Tasmania historically played AR .It dosen't need an AFL team to grow football but to keep it that way .NT has been strong , but it has received a big boost just recently because they have higher level representation in the NT Thunder .The inclusion of a PNG team could have the same effect .

Yes i would love Aussie Rules to be played in New Zealand, South Africa and the rest of the world, but the rest of the world doesn't play these sports .

Totally wrong . Go and watch the 2001 International Cup .These are overseas teams formed of national players with little outside help .

that people from NSW and Qld have chosen rugby to play.

In NSW most people play soccer far ahead of any of the contact sports .
In QLD most people play soccer but it is a lot more even with little between the three contact football codes .

Yes but the sport has never taken off there.

AR was so popular in NSW that rugby changed it rules to be more attractive and when that didn't work Rugby locked AR out of enclosed grounds which it controlled .Finally Rugby used it's influence to ban AR from schools and then AR died considerably . In QLD AR didn't fare quite so bad and their league survived a lot stronger .IN 1903 there were something like 131 AR teams in NZ .

 

[BuffaloRules]

AR was so popular in NSW that rugby changed it rules to be more attractive and when that didn't work Rugby locked AR out of enclosed grounds which it controlled .Finally Rugby used it's influence to ban AR from schools and then AR died considerably . In QLD AR didn't fare quite so bad and their league survived a lot stronger .IN 1903 there were something like 131 AR teams in NZ .

Cossy - Rugby Union did this.

Rugby League didnt start in Australia until 1908.

Rugby union still uses its influence to ban Rugby league from certain private schools in NSW & QLD to this day.

Dont worry, us League fans hate Union just as much as you.

 

[cos789]

Cossy - Rugby Union did this.

I'm well aware of that .The statement was about the popularity of Australian Football . That is was popular and it took some political action to deprive people of choice .

Dont worry, us League fans hate Union just as much as you.

I don't hate Rugby ,in fact I played RU and rl and was good at it .
It would have been interesting had the English adopted colonial rules instead of just playing them occassionally and feeling threatened by the immensely popular game throughout Australia and NZ .It would have been interesting if the NSW and QLD hadn't been undermined by the school systems and the local football leagues remained strong like the rest of Australia . That is all history .

As for the future ,people are starting to get choice again through the use of cheap and effective technology .Australian Football has even been introduced into some overseas schools as pilot schemes with great effect .

And I don't hate rl ,just some of their fans occassionally who feel the need to badmouth the Australian game .

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

It would have been interesting had the English adopted colonial rules instead of just playing them occassionally and feeling threatened by the immensely popular game throughout Australia and NZ .

Wah! The world plays soccer and rugby instead of AFL! Wah!

 

[.Shotties.]

Wah! The world plays soccer and rugby instead of AFL! Wah!

Wasn't really what he was saying.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

Wasn't really what he was saying.

What was he saying then?

 

[.Shotties.]

What was he saying then?

He's saying it would have been interesting to see Australia's sporting landscape if the sport had been allowed to flourish at the time instead of being banned and kick off most major sporting grounds in places like NSW.

I don't know where you got your petulant little snipe from.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

He's saying it would have been interesting to see Australia's sporting landscape if the sport had been allowed to flourish at the time instead of being banned and kick off most major sporting grounds in places like NSW.

What exactly does that have to do with the English?

 

[.Shotties.]

What exactly does that have to do with the English?

Are you serious? You think maybe he was referring to the English that held most positions of governance and power at the time? God damn, I know you can be deliberately obtuse at times but you constantly break new ground.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

Are you serious? You think maybe he was referring to the English that held most positions of governance and power at the time? God damn, I know you can be deliberately obtuse at times but you constantly break new ground.

Uh huh. And this is despite the fact that by the second half the of 19th Century, most of Australia was self-governing?

 

[.Shotties.]

Uh huh. And this is despite the fact that by the second half the of 19th Century, most of Australia was self-governing?

Jesus wept.

Which of the State Governors in Australia in, say the period of 1850-1900 were Australian born? I can tell you none of NSW or Victoria or South Australia had Australian governors. Queensland's first was in 1898. Even the Secretary of State was British, so I'm not sure what you mean by most of Australia was self-governing at this point when almost all positions of power were held by people from the British Isles.

Just admit you didn't understand Cos' reference and save yourself some time.

 

[Dimenhydrinate]

Jesus wept.

Which of the State Governors in Australia in, say the period of 1850-1900 were Australian born? I can tell you none of NSW or Victoria or South Australia had Australian governors. Queensland's first was in 1898. Even the Secretary of State was British, so I'm not sure what you mean by most of Australia was self-governing at this point when almost all positions of power were held by people from the British Isles.

Sorry buddy, but by about 1860, most of the states had autonomy with their own parliaments. Governors only had as much power as they were given; first by the monarch and then by the parliament.

 

[.Shotties.]

Sorry buddy

No worries, but you should really be apologising to cos. Don't worry though, this isn't as bad as the time you tried to mitigate the Mladic banners because you didn't think they were that big.

 

[Galileo9]

What about the 1million+ people in GWS that don't currently follow any football code? They are the key. The Giants realise this. The NRL does not.

i am not from there so i am only guessing but i imagine these people are immigrants and hence would be more prone to following soccer. there are only really a few cultures/countries in the world that link sport with brainless men setting out to hurt each other. i am sure some will like it however.

 

[cos789]

What was he saying then?

If you go back in history there were times when colonial football now known as Australian Football came close to having the opportunity to became the then then dominent football .The English Lions made tours of the cololonies and played them under Rugby rules and colonial rules and won only a few games under Rugby Rules .A movement was formed to take an "Australian: team to London to tour under Colonial rules .This was sabotaged at the last minute by those in the Rugby camp .So an opportunity lost there to get exposure from the very begginning .Colonial football was so popular in Sydney that the Waratah Rugby club changed to Colonial rules ,Such was the perceived threat that Rugby was going to be overtaken that they changed the rules of Rugby , orchestrated lockouts of enclosed ovals (rare at the time) and banned AR from schools .So another opportunity lost for AR to develope like it has in other states . Similarly QLD .Australian Football carnivals started in 1879 .Imagine the importance of this sport that it that it could afford conduct these events considering situation then .AR was international in 1908 when NZ attended thses carnivals .Another opportunity lost most probably from a flood of English into NZ soon after .

So it's nice to imagine what could have been .
Probably no code wars

 

[Ice-Wolf]

And other than Steve "Bracks" Barakat- Lebanese Australians who arent well educated are a nightmare people

I'd say that might have more to do with them being 1st or 2nd generation immigrants unlike Steve whose family immigrated in the 1890s.

 

[Giantman]

GWS will be a massive success. Big population. Big exposure. Plenty of AFL fans in Western Sydney who need their own team rather than the Swans who are mainly based in eastern suburbs and North shore.

 

[UrLordUnbeliever]

The Giants will eventually be a success, but it's going to take a while..

There are 2 Million people in Western Sydney.. And let's not forget they're targeting people in Canberra and rural NSW as well.
The first year or two looks like they are going to be pretty bleak, sure there is a buzz about - new club, new stadium, how will Izzy go etc. - but few people are going to sit through big losses week after week.
But through that period there is going to be more exposure to the sport throughout NSW, despite the NSW pro-league media bias. The Giants are going to be a part of people's weekly life in NSW, they may not like the Giants or the code at first, but as it becomes more socially acceptable - which it will - and as the kids get into it - which they will - more peoplee are going to start tuning in and showing up when the boys are more competitive.

I have spent a bit of time in Sydney, and the people I've met are like the people in Melbourne and Adelaide.. Those that like their sport fall into two categories - those who are curious about new things, and those who have absolutely no interest in any other sport.
The Media try to paint the picture that it's pretty much League or nothing to sports fans in Sydney, but you can take that with a grain of salt.

 

[SydneyGoose]

In addition to all the corrections above, at what point did lebanese mean islamic? I went to school with tonnes and they were all catholic down the line. Hell they all cheered for Celtic! Also, I must say that growing up I always thought the AFL was less racist than League. In Sydney I always felt like if you weren't "Anglo-Australian" you played soccer and not League. If you were Italian you cheered for Marconi, not Wests or Balmain.

 

[Arwib]

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[finders]

The Giants will become a very succesfull team over the longterm.

Western Sydney is ripe for the picking with hundreds of thousands of people not having an alligence to any code in particular.

A lot will depend on how quickly GWS become successful on the field and how the AFL markets the club and game to the kids who are the future of the club and Austrlaian Football in this massive area.

 

[Grongey]

The Cossacks went within a kick of beating both the Dogs and Collingwood last night. The Collingwood game was with the experienced players all resting.