Autopsy The surprisingly mature post loss discussion.

[Doggstats]

Was frustrating to watch and we didnt do anything to adjust. Their 4 across the back of the square all got to the congestion at the ball near the centre circle before we did. Our inability to get a clear and decisive centre clearance over their heads ensured this tactic was effective all day. Was worrying from the box that we didnt adjust to negate this tactic.

Actually we did adjust. We started hitting the ball straight to them from ruck taps. How nice of us.

 

[footyfan000001]

Oh and a shoutout to Tom Bugg. If you're gonna be an absolute tool you'd wanna back it up. He comes from the Toby Greene school of being a campaigner. Only difference is Greene's a gun.

That hit on Wood from behind only to dive when it came back made me sick.

It was amusing to sit back and watch it. Only way he'll ever be relevant at AFL level. It'll bite him on the ass one day don't worry!

 

[Dogs Rule]

Lazy, disinterested, drinking too much of their own bath water and basically not giving a s***.

No, I'm not talking about a surly teenager, I'm talking about our players.

The last two weeks, but especially today, was an embarrassment. I was sitting there laughing, not because it was humourous, but because we were so clueless and inept.

I actually thought I was watching us circa 2003/04 today.

Bevo, time to earn your money.

Ugly stuff, very, very ugly.

 

[Dogs Rule]

We, as supporters deserve better than this shit. Reshuffle of the coaching panel, what a joke. Beveridge needs to clean out the coaching panel at the end of the year and say to Gordon and Chris Grant, trust in my coaching guys, let me pick my own panel. That's what needs to happen. Hansen, Gia and whoever else isn't up to it, piss off.

Who is teaching them to kick? If it's Gia, just get out, because our kicking is nothing short of disgraceful. It's absolutely appalling.

 

[Dog 36]

Who is teaching them to kick? If it's Gia, just get out, because our kicking is nothing short of disgraceful. It's absolutely appalling.

Our kicking is disgraceful followed closely by our ability to put ourselves or invite more pressure with every hand pass.

One thing is for sure and will never change a 40m kick to a players advantage will always get there quicker than you can run it or by using a chain of hand balls. Kicking well is genuine ball speed.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Our kicking is disgraceful followed closely by our ability to put ourselves or invite more pressure with every hand pass.

One thing is for sure and will never change a 40m kick to a players advantage will always get there quicker than you can run it or by using a chain of hand balls. Kicking well is genuine ball speed.

Totally agree. I'm not sure who's instructing them to handball while under the hammer down back, then keep handballing back until it gets turned over and the opposition kicks an easy goal.

Whoever it is though, can join our kicking coach on the dole queue.

 

[ScragCity]

Who is teaching them to kick? If it's Gia, just get out, because our kicking is nothing short of disgraceful. It's absolutely appalling.

Of course it's Gia. Anything that we do poorly is Gia's doing...no other coaches have any say. Gia makes all the calls and runs every drill and coaches every line and is 100% of the reason we are losing games.

 

[Sharkey66]

Anyone see what Jones did to Dahlhaus behind the play in the centre? Dahl was down for a bit

A drive by elbow disguised as a shoulder bump

 

[Dogs Rule]

Of course it's Gia. Anything that we do poorly is Gia's doing...no other coaches have any say. Gia makes all the calls and runs every drill and coaches every line and is 100% of the reason we are losing games.

Whoever is teaching them need to have a look at what they're doing. Gia, Bevo, Hansen, whoever.

 

[Unorth]

Honestly just sometimes feels like Caleb and Bont are the only mids we have that actually consistently intend on doing anything damaging with the ball. Caleb had a down start to the year but has been tremendous since his return. Equally, Bont had a down few weeks, but today was a good game. But whenever he tries to get something started with a kick, his only option is Stringer (or anyone else) being triple teamed.

The rest of our accumulator mids do nothing with it. They just handball to someone under pressure or kick sideways. This is what shits me. We were damaging as a TEAM. We had guys like Picken and Boyd take on the game to extents that under previous coaches they probably never thought they could. Everyone was willing to be dangerous with ball in hand, and that's what worked so well. Opposition teams had no idea what to expect.

Bont and Caleb seem to understand that **** all is going to be accomplished by faffing about with handballs/kicking sideways all day. I don't think any of the other mids do.

 

[bresker]

I love the stat about our forward 50 entries per goal. We don't aim for forward 50 entries. We aim for forward 30 entries, or forward 10 entries if we can get them. We want to handball right up to the goals because no-one can take a mark or take enough responsibility to have a shot. It's as if we have to beat an invisible goalkeeper. And other teams have so worked us out. Clog up our attack and break free along the wings, there's a goal for the taking.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Champion data ranked our contested ball diff last season as the 2nd highest ever recorded.

Clearly that isn't a sustainable game style

We need to move on because it become like clarkos cluster

 

[dogwatch]

My take on the players themselves today ...

Outstanding:

• nobody

Good:

• Daniel - creative, hard-working and courageous, a welcome sight to see a good user of the pill in a team of panicky hacks
• Liberatore - another who has been through the VFL school of rehab for premiership players. Not his best game but he got into it more as the game went on. A couple of clanger over the head handballs but he was always in and under having a go and also brought some much-needed steel when they tried to rough us up. Most importantly he got a fair bit of the ball and seemed switched on. Hoping it's a sign he's turned the corner.
• Dahlhaus - he's not flashy, his disposal is pretty ordinary and he's not even all that quick but you can always count on a gutsy four-quarter effort from Dahl. 15 CPs. Find it hard to believe he only laid one tackle - he was always applying pressure whenever I saw him.
• Cordy - yet another rehabilitated player. Welcome back Zaine. Probably our best big man on the day (not saying a lot).

OK:

• Wallis - couldn't quite squeeze him into the "good" players, despite the concerted effort. He had the most CPs and equal most tackles and had 20+ disposals but he didn't really hurt the opposition much and lacked some of his usual creativity.
• Bontempelli - Did a few nice things without being a great threat to the Dees. I think we judge him by a higher standard than most other players because of his rare talents. Was better this week but has had a lean trot for the last month. I still reckon there's something wrong with him physically. Or maybe he's having difficulty switching on this year? Dunno.
• Suckling - I've been a critic of his but he was actually OK and one of our better players today. I know there are knocks on him for not being hard enough at the ball but he was one of our few avenues for effective transition from defence. He delivered some great long low kicks to a player in only a little bit of space 50-60m away. When most of the side can't deliver like that over 35m you have to take notice and give credit. That said, there's still a fair bit about his play I don't like. Not happy to see him deep in defence when we don't have clean possession.
• Roughead - his best game since he came back but still way off what he's capable of. After the serious and unusual injury he had pre-season he's only just building form now. Will get better in the coming weeks.
• Macrae - meh, just squeezed him in on effort, but well below his best.

Others:

It follows that I reckon all the others were NOT ok. I won't go through them all, but will comment on a few:

• Honeychurch - I feel for him because he's an honest trier, but he blew a chance to kick 3 goals and be among our best. Worked hard but not clean enough and not damaging enough. He'll probably get another game on the two-game minimum principle but unless he can show a fair bit more I think that might be his last hurrah. Far from our worst today.
• Dale - just doing enough to hold his spot. We probably have to persevere and get games into him (he's only played 20). His point of difference is that he is usually a very good kick over 40m or less (despite his 55% DE today). If he can muster the courage and confidence to take the game on a bit more he will be an asset to our transitions which are currently dire. However he'll need to get a little bit more of the ball.
• Johannisen - going through a few mental horrors right now and was fairly ordinary today. I think his head has been elsewhere with all the contract talk and the feelers from other clubs, so he has brought it on himself to a large extent. Not worth $700k p.a. IMO but still a very valuable player when he's on. If he can work through the physical attention he's now getting I reckon he'll actually become an even better player than he was in 2016. He's still only 24 and has improvement in him.
• Picken - It's distressing watching one of my favourite players go around this year being so ineffective after being the Bulldogs' player of the finals in our premiership year. Last year he was the player we would turn to for something special when we were a few goals down and needed a lift. Good things always happened when he took possession. This year it's just not happening. It doesn't make sense that he should have "dropped off the cliff" because he is still only 30. If it's not the concussion after-effects what is it?

 

[BulldogJake]

I think what our biggest problem has been this season is the immense drop off from veteran players.

M. Boyd - done

Picken - Writing on the walls

Suckling - inconsistent

Cloke - Poor poor pick up

Crameri - Injury

Murphy - Been ok, serviceable, but not as how I remember him before his ACL.

I just pray to god Morris goes another year. Beneficial to so many players if he does.

 

[Dry Rot]

I think what our biggest problem has been this season is the immense drop off from veteran players.

M. Boyd - done

Picken - Writing on the walls

Suckling - inconsistent

Cloke - Poor poor pick up

Crameri - Injury

Murphy - Been ok, serviceable, but not as how I remember him before his ACL.

But only 2 out of that six played in our 2016 finals run.

 

[Mattdougie]

Dear god I'm sick of people saying Cloke has been a poor pick up. I actually think people that say this have next to now idea at footy. Sorry but it like the easy excuse of being a racist of you don't like Goodes or Jong it's pathetic.

1- Cloke cost us f!ck all!
2- He was bought in to fit a structure with Redpath out.
3- We actually are not playing that structure and are instead playing a high forward structure that does not suit him or any big forward.
4- Our delivery to him has been abysmal.
5- He has kicked more goals than Dickson and Redpath.

People need to make their own opinions and not just spout the same Sh!t they hear from others. Cloke has not been good but it isn't entirely his fault and no forward has been that much better.

 

[BRWB]

But only 2 out of that six played in our 2016 finals run.

True. But Moyd was AA and Picken the finals MVP or runner up to Kennedy. Big losses.

More to it though. Rough is finding his way back. As is Libba. Wallis seems to be fading Out after half time. Dunkley is out. Toyd hasn't approached his GF. Dickson is still coming back.

Also so many key players had surgery and interrupted pre seasons (Toyd, Bont, String etc) I'm thinking we just aren't cherry ripe. We also lost good depth in Stevens, Hrovat and Hamling.

Combine with maybe a little less hunger and teams picking our game apart and we could be destined for a tougher year than I imagined.

I thought our depth was better, but clearly it's not.

There is opportunity for our VFL players. Who will stand up? (And please don't say Honey)

 

[BRWB]

Dear god I'm sick of people saying Cloke has been a poor pick up. I actually think people that say this have next to now idea at footy. Sorry but it like the easy excuse of being a racist of you don't like Goodes or Jong it's pathetic.

1- Cloke cost us f!ck all!
2- He was bought in to fit a structure with Redpath out.
3- We actually are not playing that structure and are instead playing a high forward structure that does not suit him or any big forward.
4- Our delivery to him has been abysmal.
5- He has kicked more goals than Dickson and Redpath.

People need to make their own opinions and not just spout the same Sh!t they hear from others. Cloke has not been good but it isn't entirely his fault and no forward has been that much better.

I was against picking up Cloke but for what he cost? Meh.

My expectations were that he might impact a few games but he'd be mainly depth, so I'm not shocked. Actually think Cloke offers more than Red. But it's marginal. And neither is great shakes. But as you say Dunstall wouldn't get a kick with our delivery. Although I do think someone aggressively leading at the ball carrier wouldn't hurt. Chicken and egg.

Stringer looks great when he does lead. But he often seems to want a cheapie over the back. leading might be hard work or cause hard contact, both of which may worry Jake.

 

[ossie_21]

Mentally I am in pain when I bring myself to this board & read about how bad we are going. I'd be a liar if I said winning the flag last year doesn't soften the blow, but it's sure getting some gloss taken off the achievement.

We won a flag off an incredible contested ball game, but we are 3rd last in the league this year & are being beaten up in the middle. We have the same group of players, but what has changed it so much? It was painful the last couple of weeks just watching us play, as every time we move the ball forward everything seemed so hard just to hopefully get a goal scoring opportunity. But turn the ball over, there was just space everywhere & targets being spotted up for the opposition. I watch at least parts of a few different games each weekend, but the last few weeks I've been watching how other teams are going about it & just think "why do we never look like this?".

I don't want to question our work rate, but it has to be. Players aren't working hard enough to be an option, or even work off the ball to help create the space for someone else. So many times in our last two games, a long kick from the middle resulted in a defensive uncontested mark. We don't have anyone to kick to, but where are they?!! Cos they sure aren't being involved up the ground!

We became kings of the handball but teams just know we won't kick it forward quickly so numbers are too easy to get back. Then because we have worked up the ground in numbers, they can get loose somewhere out the back because, shock horror, they can kick it over several of our players that can't get back quickly.

It must be hard to modify a game plan quickly to implement more kicking, but we must. We are the team with the most handballs in the AFL, but second least kicks. Near the bottom for marks as a result, plus it wouldn't surprise me if there's a link there with our lack of kicking in games connected with our piss poor, worst in the league goal accuracy.

 

[Mattdougie]

True. But Moyd was AA and Picken the finals MVP or runner up to Kennedy. Big losses.

More to it though. Rough is finding his way back. As is Libba. Wallis seems to be fading Out after half time. Dunkley is out. Toyd hasn't approached his GF. Dickson is still coming back.

Also so many key players had surgery and interrupted pre seasons (Toyd, Bont, String etc) I'm thinking we just aren't cherry ripe. We also lost good depth in Stevens, Hrovat and Hamling.

Combine with maybe a little less hunger and teams picking our game apart and we could be destined for a tougher year than I imagined.

I thought our depth was better, but clearly it's not.

There is opportunity for our VFL players. Who will stand up? (And please don't say Honey)

Hamling was far better than depth mate.

A massive loss we will struggle to fill unless we throw big money at someone.

I've been saying for ages our depth is not good enough. It looked better last year because the better players where up and about and the depth had very limited roles that they were capable of. Now being asked to do slightly more they are being found out as not up to it. Admittedly some are kids are not ready but most are just not good enough.

It's laughable to think Honey Campbell Prudden Jong and co will sudden to step up and be quality AFL players after 4-5 years.

Don't get me wrong we have plenty of talent and some kids I have high hopes for but of this list now I see the following players as not good enough to play on our next flag.

Campbell
Honey
Prudden
Suckling
Moyd
Jong
Redpath
Collins

Add to that ten players on our list that have played less than 5 games that's half of our list we are getting next to zero from.

 

[bresker]

Dear god I'm sick of people saying Cloke has been a poor pick up. I actually think people that say this have next to now idea at footy. Sorry but it like the easy excuse of being a racist of you don't like Goodes or Jong it's pathetic.

1- Cloke cost us f!ck all!
2- He was bought in to fit a structure with Redpath out.
3- We actually are not playing that structure and are instead playing a high forward structure that does not suit him or any big forward.
4- Our delivery to him has been abysmal.
5- He has kicked more goals than Dickson and Redpath.

People need to make their own opinions and not just spout the same Sh!t they hear from others. Cloke has not been good but it isn't entirely his fault and no forward has been that much better.

But if we choose to play that harrying, helter-skelter forward style, why bother with Cloke at all? I feel sorry for the bloke, he could have chosen a club who suits his style more. He may not have cost much but he takes up a spot on the list someone more suited to our gameplan could have utilised.

 

[dogwatch]

Our woes lay squarely at the feet of our mids, rucks and coaching department with their set-ups who are yet again getting completely smashed at the contest and murdered on the spread. When they did get hands to the ball they were getting swamped by their opponents who were consistently harder and hungrier at the ball carrier resulting in blind and panicked hand passes to teammates in even worse positions. Teammates who would already have an opponent sweating on them that more often than not would see a turnover and the ball being swept at speed to the other end of the ground and into an open forward line.

When kicking they invariably want to take the easy route (in stark contrast to Melbourne's relentless driving of the ball long and forward) of chipping it 25 metres sideways by foot. Assuming they hit a target, its something that slows things down to a treacle like pace and allows their opponents to flood back through the midfield in numbers and set up another line of defence, where once again they can ramp up the pressure waiting for yet another turnover from a team devoid of confidence and well...you can guess the rest. All of which is nullifying any chance of us playing the free flowing run and carry game that won us a premiership a mere 9 months ago.

Whilst I am potting the mids, I want to make special mention of that fact that It just boggles my mind that Lachie Hunter has returned to the shitty floaty kicks of yore ones that barely cover 35 metres and only sometimes hit the target. Im also kinda tired of his weird attempts at a spoil where he just jumps up in the air and flails his arms about like a drunken octopus or a giant inflatable tube man with holes in it. It makes him look ridiculous and more often than not completely puts him out of the contest.

I wouldn't want to be a forward or backman in this side for quids, its a completely thankless task at the moment.

Im not looking forward to subjecting myself to the replay.

Not enough likes for this post. It's fundamental to our poor performances.

Today we had a massive theoretical advantage in the rucks and if you look at the stats we smashed them in the hitouts 61-19. Yet we still lost the clearances (both types) and got thrashed on the scoreboard. How can that happen?

One of the main reasons is we don't have the right personnel for roving to the rucks. Neither in the current 22 nor anywhere on our list as far as I can see. Players are poorly positioned (that could be tactical) and don't hit the ball or the packs running like Ablett, Dangerfield, Fyfe, Martin or Cooney/Swan in their prime. Nothing close to it fact. The best we have is Bont but he's a bit too slow and lumbering for that to be his forte (compare his acceleration to the group I just mentioned). Stringer could become the man but has he got the tank and the consistency and can he be replaced in the forward line? (Maybe yes, if today's offering is all we are going to get from him up forward.)

I think this is why Bev persevered so long with Jong at the bounces. He had the physique and the pace. Unfortunately he never had the clean handling and/or clear sense of purpose. After him we have no-one who can play that role. 185cm+, solid, pacy and good decision maker.

Forget KPPs, rucks and small forwards. This has to be our number one target whether by drafting, FA or trading.

Another shocker was the positioning at the contested mark. We seemed to have several competing in the air and maybe one or two hovering around at the sides. The Dees had players ready for the fall of the ball to the front of the contest and would just sweep it away.

The transitions through midfield are also appalling. This has already been dealt with a bit by Norm and others. We were better at it before other sides started doing their relentless pressure thing on us. Now we want to chip sideways and handball into a deteriorating spiral of ball security until we cough it up. I noticed Melbourne were prepared to bang it forward the moment they got it. Not elegant but if it's going to be in dispute why not have it in dispute 40m downfield than where it currently is? (I'm sure there are more sophisticated aspects to it than that, but you get the general idea.)

And if not kicking it, where is our moderate risk, high reward handball-and-run-forward strategy of 2016? Has it too been drowned in the relentless wave of pressure we are now getting?

 

[BRWB]

Hamling was far better than depth mate.

A massive loss we will struggle to fill unless we throw big money at someone.

I've been saying for ages our depth is not good enough. It looked better last year because the better players where up and about and the depth had very limited roles that they were capable of. Now being asked to do slightly more they are being found out as not up to it. Admittedly some are kids are not ready but most are just not good enough.

It's laughable to think Honey Campbell Prudden Jong and co will sudden to step up and be quality AFL players after 4-5 years.

Don't get me wrong we have plenty of talent and some kids I have high hopes for but of this list now I see the following players as not good enough to play on our next flag.

Campbell
Honey
Prudden
Suckling
Moyd
Jong
Redpath
Collins

Add to that ten players on our list that have played less than 5 games that's half of our list we are getting next to zero from.

I reckon Suckling could squeeze in. Don't see old mate Cloke playing in a flag either.

Don't disagree. Although Hamling could barely get a game in the first half of the season. Turned out alright - annoying we lost him for SFA. Adams seems injury prone and Fletch is...well Fletch. I like Cordy but just doesn't have the defensive smarts yet. So holes still back and if Boyd is a ruckman then we have no KPF. And our mids are a bunch of kamikaze butchers.

Be interesting to see what we do come seasons end.

 

[Adz]

Spends more time doing his hair than trying to take a mark.

Drives. Me. Insane.

yeah, I have to say I'm getting a little sick of watching Toyd getting outplayed in marking contests by players that are my size (175 cm)

 

[perro_loco]

A bit of perspective. Although I could watch the game, it is clear that we were terrible. But remember we are one game and percentage off 4th place. Things can turn around pretty quick. I don't believe the players and coaches are happy with what produced today. GO DOGS!!!

On Nexus 6P using BigFooty.com mobile app