Autopsy The surprisingly mature post loss discussion.

[ScragCity]

True. But Moyd was AA and Picken the finals MVP or runner up to Kennedy. Big losses.

More to it though. Rough is finding his way back. As is Libba. Wallis seems to be fading Out after half time. Dunkley is out. Toyd hasn't approached his GF. Dickson is still coming back.

Also so many key players had surgery and interrupted pre seasons (Toyd, Bont, String etc) I'm thinking we just aren't cherry ripe. We also lost good depth in Stevens, Hrovat and Hamling.

Combine with maybe a little less hunger and teams picking our game apart and we could be destined for a tougher year than I imagined.

I thought our depth was better, but clearly it's not.

There is opportunity for our VFL players. Who will stand up? (And please don't say Honey)

Hamilton is our last hope

 

[Easty]

Think people are missing the key areas that are letting us down (even though I agree about the poor forward structure)

- we're getting smashed at stoppages, in part because we don't employ a sweeper, in part because we're second to the ball.

- our two way running is applauding at the moment. There's no double leads at all happening, or at times even single leads which is cramping everything up. No one seems interested in doing 'unrewardard running'

No point looking at anything else until you address these 2 points

 

[DelRe]

- our two way running is applauding at the moment.

Sounds like a nasty case of the clap.

 

[_M_16_]

Champion data ranked our contested ball diff last season as the 2nd highest ever recorded.

Clearly that isn't a sustainable game style

We need to move on because it become like clarkos cluster

Hard to call that out when we have not even been winning the contested count. Massive difference in this years ratio vs last years when we were winning... maybe it was a good thing?

 

[Mattdougie]

Champion data ranked our contested ball diff last season as the 2nd highest ever recorded.

Clearly that isn't a sustainable game style

We need to move on because it become like clarkos cluster

Just proves again how useless CD stats are to judging a games result

 

[The Inbetweener]

That't what i took from it too. He was flat as a tack and looked like he had no answers.

That was tough watching at the game. First half i can't recall a half like that where not a single thing went right. I was all for recalling the honeybadger, have to reward 2's form, but today proved why Bevo hasn't promoted him, that miss in the goal square i feel will be the final nail in his career, game was over when it went up the other end and tin ass Watts goaled after the siren. How anyone didn't touch that is beyond me, another example of poor decision making for 5 guys not to be standing on the goal line. 2nd half heads dropped, turnovers were chronic and they got their tails up and buried us as good teams should.

Bugg posting that pre-game shows no one fears us, would anyone do that to Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis etc at Hawthorn? No chance. If they did the whole hawks team would have buried Bugg all day, Wood at least went at him pre-game, but why wasn't the whole team into him all game to make a statement. He would have walked off the ground laughing today.

Have so much to fix, will take the whole clubs and all the leaders to make a stand and turn it around (not just Bevo). Look forward to us breathing absolute fire v Norf and showing what this club is about.

Your point about them not doing it to a Hawks player is spot on.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Do yourselves a favour and download SEN's assessment of the Dogs just then. Similar to what people saying here

 

[Doggies_13]

Our issues are pretty simple.

Our team defence isn't there we are slow to transition back, we don't push back hard enough at all, it is constantly the opposition getting to the drop of the ball first.

We don't pressure enough which breaks down our zone defence as teams have time to hit a target.

We are second to the ball at stoppages constantly that is why we are so high up
In tackles as we have to tackle as we don't get to the ball first.

We over handball the ball. When our players are clear to kick we look to handball the ball again which allows oppositions to clog our forward line.

If you look at this year compared with last year, our contested ball is down cause we are second to the ball, our time in forward half is down as our pressure is down allowing easy exits from our forward 50 by opposition teams.

Opposition teams are coming at us physically and we aren't handling it. I now understand the unsociable hawks. With out looking back I would suggest that in 09 teams went after the Hawks physically too. We need to play right on the borderline if we lose some players to suspension so be it but we need to set the tone that you don't f*** with this team.

 

[Lex22]

yeah, I have to say I'm getting a little sick of watching Toyd getting outplayed in marking contests by players that are my size (175 cm)

Needs to start acting like a big man, a little runt like Jetta (I think it was him) should know better than to do that but Toyd simply doesn't know how to use his size. Needs to start hurting them overconfident little men that are continually getting in his way, drive your knees in the marking contest, hit it at speed etc.

He needs to go back and watch the Prelim and see what Cordy did to Ward, nothing dirty/against the rules but hurt them blokes that don't think twice about getting your way. Let them know you're there, Tom and you'll start getting more space as them little turds will start dropping off them contests.

 

[MrChristo]

Stringer pisses me off at times. Really shirks contact at times..

It's not "At times" that's the problem, imo, it's all the time.

He's barely put in a 1-1 contest all year, and he's constantly taking the 'easy' option...which is either 1) Dropping off the back of packs and hoping for an easy one, or 2) Trying to take a ridiculously unrealistic (for him) hanger, which generally results in him giving away a free-kick...or at best dropping it and we lose it at ground level because we're now out-numbered.

He's kicked multiple goals in half the games he's played this year (and 10 out of 23 last year), so he's clearly giving us something, but 3 tackles in his last 4 games is more of an indication of where his career is at, imho.
Frustrating as hell.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Sounds like a nasty case of the clap.

Bravo

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

And Stringer. His body language today was absolutely deplorable today, especially in the second half.
To be honest though i think it was a combination of frustration with the umpires and realizing it was one of those days that nothing was going right.
Watching at the ground and then on the replay you could see their frustration with the way the game was going.

You watched a replay???

 

[bresker]

Worst and best moment from yesterday, anyone?

Worst - When Stringer marked on the wing outside 50, did a little dance on the spot for 20 seconds, then kicked the ball out on full to the jeers of the Melbourne supporters. A perfect microcosm of where we're at right now.

Best - when the ball was in dispute on the edge of 50m and Caleb took control, picked it up and sent through the most perfect straight shot over a crowd of players . The smallest player in the AFL is our best player, he's doing work while others play.

 

[The Wonder Dog]

Honestly, I am disappointed but not even worried one big. Way too much overreaction and perhaps some over estimated how good we were last year. Don't get me wrong, we played really well last year, choked teams with our pressure despite not hitting the scoreboard hard, and surprised them with our break neck disposal. Our end of season win/loss record would have gotten us into the top 4 about 60%-75% of the time since the year 2000. And we played one of the best finals series by any team in history

But the reality was, we won it well before we were meant to. Even Jason McCartney admitted he did not expect us to contend for another couple of seasons, myself probably a little longer than that. Our age profile and experience in terms of games played for a majority of the players was well off the typical premiership profile of many teams. We rode on the back of some of our veterans having close to career best seasons and a game style that was different

Now this year some teams have followed the same blue print, teams know how to beat us by putting the heat on us which we are not used to, forcing us into rushed and poor disposal, flooding the backline, and swarming numbers back behind us once they force the turnover. Many of those playing well then are not playing well now

Looking on the bright side, our list has greater depth and a wider variety of top end young talent or those with potential, more than most teams. If 80% of those become good to handy AFL players, and other teams have the same success rate, we will have more better players still. Not to mention I expect the league to become more even and closer in the years ahead. No team screams out flooded with youngsters that they will dominate, good teams like Adelaide and Geelong rely on the most senior/older players who wont be around by the time our list reaches the right profile. And I am not even that convinced about GWS powerhouse tag yet, because they face a big salary cap battle to keep all their top ranked youngsters.

We still need to plug a few holes, a genuine tap winning ruckman, forwards who can take a mark, another key defender, and more midfield grunt, but with some pace and good kicking skills

We won the flag last year, our first in over 60 years, they are very hard to win. The way people are reacting now is being too negative, and not looking to the bright sides. We are acting like we have been s**t for a few years now. I see this as this decades 2008 Hawthorn. Will be disappointed if we miss the finals. But it may be what the team needs, a long preseason and some more good draft picks. We probably partied too hard and long last year as well

This.

Its never as good as it seems and it is never as bad as it seems.

Personally I think Bevo has/is making decision that are costing us games.

Total unwillingness to tag DangerWood...unwillingness to respond to teams strategies to stop our ball movement (Sydney, Dees).

I can only assume he is weighing the consequences of us responding to other teams strategies as undermining how we want to play. I think one of the consequences he may not have factored in is the impact on our teams belief in the game plan and themselves. We have looked scared and jittery the last two weeks, which is so unlike this team.

A long way to go in the season and a lot can still happen, but I hope Bevo is leaning heavily on some outside counsel from those he trusts.

Our list is not perfect and can be improved, but it is still plenty good enough.

 

[1961grandfinal]

Worst and best moment from yesterday, anyone?

Worst - When Stringer marked on the wing outside 50, did a little dance on the spot for 20 seconds, then kicked the ball out on full to the jeers of the Melbourne supporters. A perfect microcosm of where we're at right now.

Right in front of us, you can blame Stringer but he was looking for a lead, he had nothing to go to, nada. Same as picken on the other flank, arrives at hf and no-one else is around. Waits and turnover.

I know it is the modern game to have all players in a half but we do not maintain a structure which allows players to receive the ball on a breakaway move,

 

[Dog Rising]

Worst and best moment from yesterday, anyone?

Worst - When Stringer marked on the wing outside 50, did a little dance on the spot for 20 seconds, then kicked the ball out on full to the jeers of the Melbourne supporters. A perfect microcosm of where we're at right now..

That annoyed the crap outta me. He refused to kick it to Bont who was 1/1 at the time and leading to stringer like a forward should.

 

[Mattdougie]

Our list is not good enough moving towards and to think that is single minded bias.

We do not have a fromt line ruckman
We do not have a decent CHB
We do not have a decent CHF
WE do not have a decent FF


And we don't have kids in the squad to fill these gaps.

Our mature depth is rubbish.

Once teams worked out our small ball hand balling style we have zero plan B or the players to carry out a plan b.

 

[perro_loco]

I am so pissed I cannot work out what's wrong. But we'll take it around. And that's what matters. Greetings from Valparaiso. That is all I can say. Go Dogs!!!

On Nexus 6P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[yebiga]

I'm no tactical expert but I'm going to give it a shot here.

Our slump maybe more about game plan then player form. What I saw yesterday in the first and second quarters was very similar to last year - we dominated general play - but where last year we created repeated shots at goal and repeated stoppages in our forward 50 for repeated shots - inevitably crushing our opponents - we can't get those shots at goal.

Melbourne seemed to have enormous numbers back, covering every angle with smothers, tackles, etcetera to ensure we had few chances at even taking a shot. In the first and second quarters we spent long periods parked in our forward 50 for no return. When Melbourne finally had their entries and scored quick goals it was demoralising and as this pattern continued we inevitably conceded.

Statistically, we have had a problem taking contested marks for many a year. Bevo introduced a game plan last year which enabled us to get away without taking big marks up forward. We just smashed everyone in contests and clearances with bulk numbers coming out of the packs and creating breaks into our forward half. If we won a stoppage in our forward 50, the same numbers would grind the opposition into submission and we would inevitably get our fair share of shots.

Opponents have now studied this and are throwing in both numbers and intensity in those tight areas and its breaking down our method.

But I'm not sure we can or even should overhaul our game plan. Our personnel give us strength and depth in the congestion. We are no a big marking team or a super.

A bit of tinkering maybe all that is required. Maybe rather than overhauling the game plan - we double down on it - turn the game into a grind. When we get the ball into our forward 50 - as we are still capable of doing - we just keep it there as long as possible - cut off the exits - take no risks on the fat side and just rugby style keep the ball planted in the forward half with the intent of exhausting them mentally and physically with the repeated pressure. A quarter of that and most opponents will wilt - opening the game up on our terms for the balance.

 

[Dog Rising]

Can anyone enlighten me as to what Pickens role is? Here's a guy who previously would have killed himself by diving on the ball, run down an opponent and pure gut run to get to the next contest. Why is he now skirting around the packs barely getting his hands dirty? He barely gets up to a canter. He looks lost. What is his current role at the minute?

 

[Dogsbestfriend]

Some people on here are funny
If we don't have the list or a ruckman or a FF or CHB then how the F@&k did we win the flag just last year?

It's all about form confidence attitude teamwork and work ethic.
The coaches have to get them to work as a team again.
Some may not agree after the last 2 weeks displays but our list is still very talented.
If we sneak into the finals healthy there will be other clubs sh!ting themselves.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

There it is! The "No plan B" trope.

Its the one constant that gets run right across every Bigfooty board when their team has a run of loses.

 

[yebiga]

Right in front of us, you can blame Stringer but he was looking for a lead, he had nothing to go to, nada. Same as picken on the other flank, arrives at hf and no-one else is around. Waits and turnover.

I know it is the modern game to have all players in a half but we do not maintain a structure which allows players to receive the ball on a breakaway move,

That's BS - Bont was one out about 15 meters from goal - he had two options kick to Bont immediately or play on and don't argue the opponent.
He waited until every option dried up except the pass near the boundary which he fluffed.
The bigger error was the hesitation.

 

[Dog 36]

Some people on here are funny
If we don't have the list or a ruckman or a FF or CHB then how the F@&k did we win the flag just last year?

It's all about form confidence attitude teamwork and work ethic.
The coaches have to get them to work as a team again.
Some may not agree after the last 2 weeks displays but our list is still very talented.
If we sneak into the finals healthy there will be other clubs sh!ting themselves.

Agree.

Plenty of stats going around to explain our decline etc etc BUT the one stat that doesn't get mentioned is that if we do get into the 8 the stat that we have that no one else has is WE HAVE DONE IT BEFORE

 

[TheQuietTurtle]

Do yourselves a favour and download SEN's assessment of the Dogs just then. Similar to what people saying here

Which one?