The Unofficial List Management thread... :-)

[tige19]

I've been over this a million times and it's getting annoying because you refuse to acknowledge anyone else's arguments. Hawthorn are in with a chance at a premiership, yes.

There's still an experienced core of players and enough young talent who have another preseason worth of improvement to nudge the top end of the ladder.

I'm not saying we're a lock for a top four spot because a lot of shit can happen in a season, but there honestly aren't many teams that are obviously better than we are; every team has sort of reshuffled and made changes but none have really improved no matter how much shit was spoken about.

Also, about talking shit to further an argument; "You're one eyed and bias in your view, a Hawthorn player would feed you a turd on a sandwiche and you'd swear black and blue it was the greatest thing you've ever eaten". You're the worst for it.

I think you're wrong, we won't be competing for a premiership next year. Top 4 is fanciful, however a birth in the 8 is a possibility (although I think a slight improvement on last year is more of a realistic outcome).

Our ageing stars who are "young enough" are not elite, we have a sprinkling of elite players but not enough based on last year (or previous years) to be considered a genuine threat. We have lost a lot of experienced talent, we have lost decades of leadership and I don't really see anyone jumping out wanting to take the mantle. I think 2018 will be a decent transition year, hopefully Jags can play a full season, he is 1 guy who has the possibility of leading this club but it will come down to his contribution on field and ability to stay out of the rehab group.

Our drafting of early-ish picks of the last decade has been quite poor (there are a few exceptions EG Burton), without getting those picks right, it makes it hard to stay at the pointy end.

We have some exciting talent, we have some good players to work with but we have some alarming holes, there are many areas we can be exposed and I think thoughts of a premiership tilt are just plain laughable.

 

[Hawk Dork]

We have some exciting talent, we have some good players to work with but we have some alarming holes, there are many areas we can be exposed and I think thoughts of a premiership tilt are just plain laughable.

Richmond Bulldogs

 

[tige19]

Richmond Bulldogs

Both of those clubs have more high end talent in the right age bracket.

 

[satan1]

Trent McKenzie if he goes dfa? Or does the boot not make up for the deficiencies?

 

[KermitJagger]

Both of those clubs have more high end talent in the right age bracket.

Richmond have Rance, Cotchin, Martin and Riewoldt then it falls off a cliff.

Bulldogs have even less, with Bontempelli, maybe Macrae and Hunter.

Like I said first up, you're overrating everyone else's list.

 

[KermitJagger]

Trent McKenzie if he goes dfa? Or does the boot not make up for the deficiencies?

That's probably the position we need the least reinforcements for.

 

[Black Hawk]

Ben lennon anyone?

Played well against us in the VFL prelim and might be worth a try. Clarko should ask Dimma what's going on with him during their weekly run.

 

[tige19]

Richmond have Rance, Cotchin, Martin and Riewoldt then it falls off a cliff.

Bulldogs have even less, with Bontempelli, maybe Macrae and Hunter.

Like I said first up, you're overrating everyone else's list.

Who are our elite?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Anyone seen much of Hammelmann? Looks to be a big tall contested marking forward type that Brisbane have cut.

Obviously being cut from Brisbane isn't a good sign but might be worth a look if he has potential as a rookie.

If Fagan cut him then it doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Who are our elite?

Established Elite: Cyril, Gunston, Mitchell

Emerging Potential Elite: Burton, Sicily, Hardwick

If He Gets Fit Back to Full Fitness and Confidence Potential Elite: O'Meara

 

[KermitJagger]

Who are our elite?

Positionally? It really all depends on how they perform next year but in the past two years we've had Rioli, Roughead, Burgoyne, McEvoy, Mitchell, Breust and Gunston elite for their position. If Jaeger plays even close to his potential there's another one. That isn't my opinion either, that's fact.

 

[Millsie69]

Gee that five bounce run and gun against the blues from the centre to half forward to then spot up rough was brilliant by Billy.
Something stinks about this but anyway, we aren't going to be a premiership threat because of or in spite of him, just hope he gets another chance elsewhere.
Willsmore been kissed on the dick here.

Let's not forget his efforts later in the game such as his run down to wing to simply bomb it into our forward 50 containing no Hawthorn players but laced out a group of 3 Carlton defenders.

Not to mention my personal favourite where he kicked more of the ground than the ball trying to execute a simple 20m uncontested lateral pass.

Hartung leaving is a good thing.

Agreed about Willsmore however. He's lucky that he already had a contract in place. Will probably spend all of next season in the VFL before being delisted along with Ty.

 

[Flag08]

Established Elite: Cyril, Gunston, Mitchell

Emerging Potential Elite: Burton, Sicily, Hardwick

If He Gets Fit Back to Full Fitness and Confidence Potential Elite: O'Meara

Hardwick? Wow, that is cart/horse in the extreme. Even Siss is not potentially elite, he’s still only potentially very good.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Hardwick? Wow, that is cart/horse in the extreme. Even Siss is not potentially elite, he’s still only potentially very good.

In his first year of football he had a top 15 in the league DE% and showed more composure than many senior players. He and Sicily both showed that they have the potential to become elite players. Whether it happens or not is another thing - but I have high hopes for both of them.

 

[beta_condition]

Hardwick? Wow, that is cart/horse in the extreme. Even Siss is not potentially elite, he’s still only potentially very good.

Sicily was the second best performing defender in the competition once he shifted back there, as a forward averages a goal and half a game, elite contested mark and elite kicking. He's already ****ing good no potential needed.

 

[amofootyfan]

Just wondering if anyone thinks Crameri would be a good pick up.
In 2017 we seemed to shift all our forwards to defence (Gunstan Sizz, even OBrien late in the season) so i was thinking a proven goal kicking forward might be of value.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Who are our elite?

I'd suggest:
- Rough is no worse than Riewoldt
- Tom Mitchell is around Cotchin
- O'Meara will be elite again if he can get his knee right, but he's no Dusty
- We don't have anyone anywhere near Rance, but Gunston's elite and Burton is defiitely heading that way...

Similarely, I think our bottom six are better than Richmond's...

 

[PhatHQ]

Anyone seen much of Hammelmann? Looks to be a big tall contested marking forward type that Brisbane have cut.

Obviously being cut from Brisbane isn't a good sign but might be worth a look if he has potential as a rookie.

Had this guy marked adb a potential target a whole back.

I think that there is definitely scope to work with on the rookie list

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just wondering if anyone thinks Crameri would be a good pick up.
In 2017 we seemed to shift all our forwards to defence (Gunstan Sizz, even OBrien late in the season) so i was thinking a proven goal kicking forward might be of value.

No.

 

[amofootyfan]

No.

why?

 

[Brishawk]

why?

Because he is rubbish.

 

[Gralin]

why?

We have an entire thread (two actually) on this board as to why

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Because he is rubbish.

What he said.

 

[Brishawk]

I'd suggest:
- Rough is no worse than Riewoldt
- Tom Mitchell is around Cotchin
- O'Meara will be elite again if he can get his knee right, but he's no Dusty
- We don't have anyone anywhere near Rance, but Gunston's elite and Burton is defiitely heading that way...

Similarely, I think our bottom six are better than Richmond's...

Rioli? Birchall?both top five players for us when fit.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Rioli? Birchall?both top five players for us when fit.

I love Birch, but even I would struggle to classify him as elite. Absolutely a crucial player for us next year though.