The war against renewable energy

[Seeds]

Ten solar panels on 100 rooftops, no different from 1000 in a paddock. Only the installation costs.
Often (Usually ) rooftop can use existing infrastructure, where a solar farm may need something built.

Installation and maintanance costs are cheaper for grid then rooftop due to economies of scale. But you are also missing the wind complement advantage the grid has. The wind blows when the sun is not shinning. So a lot less backup storage is required for a renewable grid system then for an offgrid system based off solar.

 

[Seeds]

No that would be the marginal cost not the fixed cost. I don't know what it's like in the east but in Perth the tariff has been upped because of the penetration of roof top solar.

Do you really think we are going to be permitted to have free power after capital cost? The grid will need to be paid for.

Yes the grid will need to be paid for as well as additional transmission cost. But this is still cheaper then the current set up. Excess profits are prevented as long as there are numerous players in the market previnting monopoly power. Which tends to be the case with renewables and batteries as its an easy industry to invest in.

 

[sdfc]

Yes the grid will need to be paid for as well as additional transmission cost. But this is still cheaper then the current set up. Excess profits are prevented as long as there are numerous players in the market previnting monopoly power. Which tends to be the case with renewables and batteries as its an easy industry to invest in.

As power prices go down the funding for the grid declines. That will have to be offset.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Installation and maintanance costs are cheaper for grid then rooftop due to economies of scale. But you are also missing the wind complement advantage the grid has. The wind blows when the sun is not shinning. So a lot less backup storage is required for a renewable grid system then for an offgrid system based off solar.

I'm still not buying your model of how much the wind is blowing when the sun is not. Actual events in Europe don't confirm it.
I consider that the truth is that "sometimes" the wind blows.

Power is proportional to the windspeed squared, so a 5km/h wind will produce an eighth of the power that it will at 20km/h.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As power prices go down the funding for the grid declines. That will have to be offset.

We need surplus Solar and Wind, and that means those building them would struggle to return their investment without heavy subsidy.

 

[sdfc]

Yes the grid will need to be paid for as well as additional transmission cost. But this is still cheaper then the current set up. Excess profits are prevented as long as there are numerous players in the market previnting monopoly power. Which tends to be the case with renewables and batteries as its an easy industry to invest in.

I'm not anti-renewables by the way, AGW makes sense to me. I just think people underestimate the task at hand.

 

[sdfc]

We need surplus Solar and Wind, and that means those building them would struggle to return their investment without heavy subsidy.

Prices will come down and batteries and solar will continue to improve. Free power is off the agenda though.

 

[nut]

Going off grid with solar and battery can be done but unless you are prepared for the odd blackout, you need some sort of backup generation, at the moment with fossil fuel. ( Potentially ammonia/hydrogen ).

Wind power doesn't really lend itself to small scale applications.

I’m a fairly high electricity user..


my consumption is 9000kw per year… before battery it was 50/50 from solar and grid, but my total solar production was 12700 kw per year.
I’ve increased my solar from 8.6kw to 15kw and added a 19.2 kw battery.
I’m confident now I could go off grid, but I’m better off selling excess solar and battery to the grid.

If grid costs continue to increase and I can’t sell enough back to the grid, than I’ll consider going completely off grid.

This is where EVs will secure off grid systems. Having the ability to use your cars battery as back up to house consumption via Vehicle to house.
If you are experiencing poor weather over a few days, just jump in the car and go charge up battery and bring power home and transfer that to your home battery, obviously at a cost.

 

[nut]

As power prices go down the funding for the grid declines. That will have to be offset.

That’s happening now with the wholesale pricing …
Currently the “grid price” is 30c usage cost - 11c feed in= 19cents for grid costs.

 

[sdfc]

We need surplus Solar and Wind, and that means those building them would struggle to return their investment without heavy subsidy.

I have little doubt that we will eventually have the capability to make households self sufficient. Free power is not happening though.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I get bugger all Solar at this time of year.
Would i be "anti green" if i found a way to get rid of my neighbors trees?

 

[sdfc]

I get bugger all Solar at this time of year.
Would i be "anti green" if i found a way to get rid of my neighbors trees?

My neighbour's tree is dumping leaves all over my yard and in my pool. Hate it in winter. love it in summer.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My neighbour's tree is dumping leaves all over my yard and in my pool. Hate it in winter. love it in summer.

At least the leaves don't block the solar in winter.
Mine has a full Cypress hedge. Sunset is sometime after 3:30 this time of year.

Some of the farms had some sort of disease in their cypress , and i was seriously thinking of finding a diseased one, and going in and finding some branches that were affected. Plan was to turf them in amongst the neighbors trees.

 

[nut]

Upgrading the grid is important to unlock massive amounts of un utilised solar.
A lot of rooftop Solar is limited to 5kw export, when at peak periods could export a lot more.

Let’s say half of the 3.5 million houses could export more than the 5kw… ie have larger systems.
Say 1.7 million times 1kw…. That’s significant.

 

[sdfc]

At least the leaves don't block the solar in winter.
Mine has a full Cypress hedge. Sunset is sometime after 3:30 this time of year.

Some of the farms had some sort of disease in their cypress , and i was seriously thinking of finding a diseased one, and going in and finding some branches that were affected. Plan was to turf them in amongst the neighbors trees.

I'm in Perth, we don't have a problem with sunlight.

 

[nut]

I'm in Perth, we don't have a problem with sunlight.

And Dutton wants to build nuclear…

 

[nut]

Make America Dumb

 

[Seeds]

I have little doubt that we will eventually have the capability to make households self sufficient. Free power is not happening though.

That sounds very right wing libertarian of you.

I believe we live better lives together as a community that helps and relies on each other. This includes food production, public transport and infrastructure, police, health, education, child care and energy supply. Economics, morality and neuroscience all back up my view.

Self sufficiency is bad for so many reasons.

 

[nut]

That sounds very right wing libertarian of you.

I believe we live better lives together as a community that helps and relies on each other. This includes food production, public transport and infrastructure, police, health, education, child care and energy supply. Economics, morality and neuroscience all back up my view.

Self sufficiency is bad for so many reasons.

There is a difference between self sufficiency and being sustainable IMO.

I agree that protecting the grid is extremely important and it will be interesting to see how they Encourage people to stay connected.
The current path that we are on will see grid prices increase as the cost to go off grid decreases.

The US has already put tariffs on imported Solar panels and Batteries.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There is a difference between self sufficiency and being sustainable IMO.

I agree that protecting the grid is extremely important and it will be interesting to see how they Encourage people to stay connected.
The current path that we are on will see grid prices increase as the cost to go off grid decreases.

The US has already put tariffs on imported Solar panels and Batteries.

With more and more people living in shoeboxes....um i mean apartments. Good luck becoming self sustainable to them all.

Wind is a very important component of sustainable generation, and doesn't lend itself to home use.

I remember years ago that my father in law used to bring several jerry cans when he came to melbourne , and fill them, because at the time petrol was a lot cheaper in the city than the country.
Reminds me of what you are suggesting with using your car to top up your home battery.
I'm kind of imagining rainy days with charging stations clogged up with people waiting for their 45 minute fast charge so they can go home and watch tv.

Some of the things you are enjoying at the moment won't be possible when electric cars are mainstream.

The USA often do stupid dumb things.

 

[nut]

With more and more people living in shoeboxes....um i mean apartments. Good luck becoming self sustainable to them all.

Wind is a very important component of sustainable generation, and doesn't lend itself to home use.

I remember years ago that my father in law used to bring several jerry cans when he came to melbourne , and fill them, because at the time petrol was a lot cheaper in the city than the country.
Reminds me of what you are suggesting with using your car to top up your home battery.
I'm kind of imagining rainy days with charging stations clogged up with people waiting for their 45 minute fast charge so they can go home and watch tv.

Some of the things you are enjoying at the moment won't be possible when electric cars are mainstream.

The USA often do stupid dumb things.

I think long term petrol stations will die off. The power source for EVs are everywhere, at your work at the shops at the club at the local parks etc etc

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think long term petrol stations will die off. The power source for EVs are everywhere, at your work at the shops at the club at the local parks etc etc

At the moment its a gimmick to get people in. That won't be the case when demand goes up.
Workplaces won't be paying electricity unless they have their own glut of solar.
You know that fast chargers need a certain amount of electrical infrastructure, who will be paying for that infrastructure at local parks?

Even Supermarkets and shopping centres , where they seem a good idea, because at least you aren't sitting on your arse waiting in the car, may struggle with increased demand.
How many charging stations do you think they will install. 100? 500?
How many cars are normally parked at Westfield shopping centres?

 

[peetoo]

I think long term petrol stations will die off. The power source for EVs are everywhere, at your work at the shops at the club at the local parks etc etc

Like back to the future, sling a cable over the tram wires

 

[nut]

V2H with BYD .. big news.

Ambibox Successfully Deploys Bidirectional Charging (V2H) With The BYD Atto 3

Ambibox has successfully deployed one of the first V2H (vehicle-to-home) demonstrations of the BYD Atto 3.

zecar.com

 

[nut]

Gravity batteries coming to Australia

Energy Vault Executes EPC and O&M Contract with ACEN Australia for 200 MW/400 MWh of Battery Energy Storage Deployments

ACEN Australia and Energy Vault to begin deployment of two battery energy storage systems (BESS), with a total capacity of 200 MW/400 MWh, at ACEN Australia’s 720 MW New England Solar project The project will be built using the most advanced grid-forming inverter technology which can provide...

investors.energyvault.com