The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

Assuming you also think that the UK, Italy, France, Spain, UAE, Qatar etc. shouldn't bother doing anything.

I didn't say we shouldn't do anything, i said it doesn't make any difference if we do or not.

UK is interesting, their CO2 per capita peaked in the 1970s, and is as low now as its been since the 1850s.
Their use of gas and nuclear gave them a pretty good starting point maybe.
15% of the electricity in UK comes from Wind and Solar.
27% of the electricity in Victoria comes from Wind and Solar.
Yay the english....boo for australia cringe cringe cringe.

45% of the electricity in Spain is from Wind and Sun, an amazing achievement , but....guess what the bulk of the 55% is.
72% of the electricity in France is from Nuclear. 3% comes from gas. Why should they worry about doing anything? Their electricity has less than 10% the CO2 of Germany.


Germany are a basket case, when the "Greens" got in they shut down the nuclear power, causing them two emit 73% more emissions over the last 2 decades.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes yes. Murdoch has instructed its drones to mindlessly regurgitate this fallacy as loudly and whingy, wherever possible.
Do you also think no individual should pay tax?

Huh...
Which fallacy are you suggesting i regurgitated. Where are you suggesting i got it from?
The fact that i haven't really read anything about it from the Murdoch press means your state-of-the-art online pigeonholing of people is well off the mark. You don't have a clue about me, i suspect that you don't have a clue period. You're just regurgitating some left wing crap about murdoch.

Tell me this, if Australia could stop emitting ANY CO2 in 2025, what would be the affect on the planet?

 

[nut]

The planet doesn't care about "per capita" China is INCREASING its emissions. China is putting out a lot of emissions.
The island of Palau in the pacific has around 3 times the emissions per capita of Australia.

Can you accept that the island of Palau is really insignificant in the grand scheme?
Show me any mathematics to suggest that Australia is any more significant.
If you nuked Australia tomorrow, and we put out no more CO2 in future, it wouldn't make any difference to what is happening globally.

China stupidly bred themselves into a state of overpopulation, they acknowledged that and took steps to stop it, but that doesn't automatically give them the right to fill the atmosphere with CO2.

In 2024 the world emitted 37.4 Billion tons of CO2 from fossel fuels. Nearly 1% higher than 2023.
more than 10 of those Billions came from China.
The USA around 5 Billion.
India around 2.9 Billion.
Russia 2 Billion.
Japan 0.8 Billion or less.

Australia around 0.44 Billion.
International Shipping 0.7 Billion ( and increasing ).
Air transport - around a Billion.

If you arrive here from outer space with the task to stop us putting CO2 into the atmosphere, you'd be pretty stupid to put much focus on Australia.

Australia has reduced their emissions since 2005. The world has increased them by 37 Billion Tons.

China should soon be to the point where their emissions start going down, but they will still be pumping out around 10 Billion tons per year every year.

If you are on a boat and its taking on water at 300 litres per minute, ( a drum and a half ) the leak up our end of the boat is 4 litres.

By the way, Australia's CO2 per capita has been dropping fast, ( probably due to immigration and de-industrialization as much as anything else ), its currently the lowest its been since the 80s.
The CO2 per capita in China is still increasing.

Absolute crap. Per capita has everything to do with it, as a rich nation we should be leading the way.
Oh and bad China is reducing its emissions … peak reportedly was in 2023.
The reason CO2 is dropping in Australia and China is because of renewables …. 4.2 million homes in Australia with roof top solar.

 

[Grin]

Huh...
Which fallacy are you suggesting i regurgitated. Where are you suggesting i got it from?
The fact that i haven't really read anything about it from the Murdoch press means your state-of-the-art online pigeonholing of people is well off the mark. You don't have a clue about me, i suspect that you don't have a clue period. You're just regurgitating some left wing crap about murdoch.

Tell me this, if Australia could stop emitting ANY CO2 in 2025, what would be the affect on the planet?

If you stopped paying tax, what difference would it make to Australia's tax receipts?

Next time, before you mindlessly regurgitate the rubbish you've been fed, try thinking it through. If you're intellectually capable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Absolute crap. Per capita has everything to do with it, as a rich nation we should be leading the way.
Oh and bad China is reducing its emissions … peak reportedly was in 2023.
The reason CO2 is dropping in Australia and China is because of renewables …. 4.2 million homes in Australia with roof top solar.

Was planned for 23. Didn't make it. Australia leading the way might make you feel warm and fuzzy. But it's not going. To stop global warming

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you stopped paying tax, what difference would it make to Australia's tax receipts?

Next time, before you mindlessly regurgitate the rubbish you've been fed, try thinking it through. If you're intellectually capable.

Paying tax? Please point me towards something I regurgitated otherwise you seem to be the mindless one. You aren't able to refute anything just mindlessly spout nonsense about Murdoch.

 

[Vitriol]

Why should I give up my slave? Other people have more slaves than me and freeing him won't change the global slave population In any meaningful way. Let's change nothing.

Herp derp nonsense type of argument morons have been making for too long. Stop it. It's pathetic and nobody with a brain will be swayed by it.

 

[nut]

Was planned for 23. Didn't make it. Australia leading the way might make you feel warm and fuzzy. But it's not going. To stop global warming

China has contributed more renewables than any other country on the planet, 95% of our solar is made in China.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

China has contributed more renewables than any other country on the planet, 95% of our solar is made in China.

He's not disputing that and in fact, manufacturing in China is one of the reasons China's CO2 emissions are so high. For example, each panel they produce results in 16 - 40 kgs of CO2 being emitted into the atmosphere.

 

[nut]

He's not disputing that and in fact, manufacturing in China is one of the reasons China's CO2 emissions are so high. For example, each panel they produce results in 16 - 40 kgs of CO2 being emitted into the atmosphere.

Yes, so we have been transferring our emissions to China through manufacturing.
The good thing is China does actually GAF as opposed to twits that think it’s pointless to do anything because Chachachachina…

China emissions fell in march 2024 by 3% and their per capita emissions are falling.

To point the finger at China is nonsense on stilts. It’s stupidity.

Also the % of renewable energy in their mix is increasing rapidly, so everything they produce is using less and less fossil fuels including Solar panels.

 

[swingdog]

He's not disputing that and in fact, manufacturing in China is one of the reasons China's CO2 emissions are so high. For example, each panel they produce results in 16 - 40 kgs of CO2 being emitted into the atmosphere.

More generally on manufacturing, this is part of the argument for a carbon tax on consumption not production.

It’s easy for Western nations to act holier than thou on their emissions when they have outsourced all their industrial production to China.

 

[swingdog]

I didn't say we shouldn't do anything, i said it doesn't make any difference if we do or not.

UK is interesting, their CO2 per capita peaked in the 1970s, and is as low now as its been since the 1850s.
Their use of gas and nuclear gave them a pretty good starting point maybe.
15% of the electricity in UK comes from Wind and Solar.
27% of the electricity in Victoria comes from Wind and Solar.
Yay the english....boo for australia cringe cringe cringe.

45% of the electricity in Spain is from Wind and Sun, an amazing achievement , but....guess what the bulk of the 55% is.
72% of the electricity in France is from Nuclear. 3% comes from gas. Why should they worry about doing anything? Their electricity has less than 10% the CO2 of Germany.


Germany are a basket case, when the "Greens" got in they shut down the nuclear power, causing them two emit 73% more emissions over the last 2 decades.

Where’s the logic in doing something that makes no difference?

EDIT: oh I see others have called you out on this weak bullshit.

 

[nut]

More generally on manufacturing, this is part of the argument for a carbon tax on consumption not production.

It’s easy for Western nations to act holier than thou on their emissions when they have outsourced all their industrial production to China.

Yes and it makes it alot easier for poorer countries to look at Australia and other western countries and not GAF as well.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Where’s the logic in doing something that makes no difference?

EDIT: oh I see others have called you out on this weak bullshit.

Did you not the the very first line in Saint's reply?

I didn't say we shouldn't do anything, i said it doesn't make any difference if we do or not.

 

[nut]

Did you not the the very first line in Saint's reply?

Of course it makes a difference …. Leadership makes a difference , technology advancements makes a difference, investment flows makes a difference.
And China is leading and making the most difference.
Mean while the EU, Canada and the US is taxing their citizens via tariffs and preventing millions of people access to cheap renewables and good affordable EVs.
It now costs a US citizen 3-4 times as much to install solar than here in Australia… is that making a difference?

But ChaChaChaChina…

 

[swingdog]

Did you not the the very first line in Saint's reply?

Yes, I was poiinting out his logical fallacy.

 

[Deliverance]

I didn't say we shouldn't do anything, i said it doesn't make any difference if we do or not.

UK is interesting, their CO2 per capita peaked in the 1970s, and is as low now as its been since the 1850s.
Their use of gas and nuclear gave them a pretty good starting point maybe.
15% of the electricity in UK comes from Wind and Solar.
27% of the electricity in Victoria comes from Wind and Solar.
Yay the english....boo for australia cringe cringe cringe.

45% of the electricity in Spain is from Wind and Sun, an amazing achievement , but....guess what the bulk of the 55% is.
72% of the electricity in France is from Nuclear. 3% comes from gas. Why should they worry about doing anything? Their electricity has less than 10% the CO2 of Germany.


Germany are a basket case, when the "Greens" got in they shut down the nuclear power, causing them two emit 73% more emissions over the last 2 decades.

Germany: carbon dioxide emissions 1990-2023 | Statista

Carbon dioxide emissions in Germany fell by more than 10 percent in 2023 to their lowest level for more than three decades.

www.statista.com

 

[Deliverance]

Let's just do it for cheaper electricity then. Aging, expensive, unreliable coal stations will hurt us more and more. Nuclear is borderline impossible in this country, decades too late, too slow and too expensive.

 

[nut]

Let's just do it for cheaper electricity then. Aging, expensive, unreliable coal stations will hurt us more and more. Nuclear is borderline impossible in this country, decades too late, too slow and too expensive.

Exactly

it’s funny how people are complaining about how the government is stealing their solar exports by decreasing feed in tariffs and at the same time complaining about the cost of electricity and the cost of renewables. The reason the feed in tariffs are falling is because the wholesale price is falling.
What we need is the government to start to pressure retailers to pass on the falling prices.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Why should I give up my slave? Other people have more slaves than me and freeing him won't change the global slave population In any meaningful way. Let's change nothing.

Herp derp nonsense type of argument morons have been making for too long. Stop it. It's pathetic and nobody with a brain will be swayed by it.

Moronic to use that analogy.

Obviously with slaves, each individual is suffering.
CO2 is a question of scale.
Do you agree that the CO2 emissions at Palau are insignificant? Or should there be a concerted effort to improve the CO2 per capita there?
At what point does it become important?

Stupid Analogy.
Herp Derp.
Morons.
Stop it.

Wow , You've certainly swayed me Einstein.

 

[nut]

Do you agree that the CO2 emissions at Palau are insignificant? Or should there be a concerted effort to improve the CO2 per capita there?

Palau is making an effort … with renewables and we are helping and it’ll make a difference.
Going renewable isn’t just about climate change… it’s also about health.

https://www.aiffp.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-12/AIFFP_DSN_Factsheet_%232_Building%20Palau%27s%20first%20utility-scale%20solar%20power%20plant_20241212.pdf

Palau eyes 20% green energy this year

By Pacific Island Times News StaffPalau has set an ambitious target of achieving 20 percent of its electricity generation from renewable energy sources this year as it works toward hitting the goal of 100 percent by 2032. As a developing nation, Palau is focused on reducing reliance on imported...

www.pacificislandtimes.com

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Of course it makes a difference …. Leadership makes a difference , technology advancements makes a difference, investment flows makes a difference.
And China is leading and making the most difference.
Mean while the EU, Canada and the US is taxing their citizens via tariffs and preventing millions of people access to cheap renewables and good affordable EVs.
It now costs a US citizen 3-4 times as much to install solar than here in Australia… is that making a difference?

But ChaChaChaChina…

So far China have not reduced their emissions , how is this leading?
It is good that they are working on it , and won't keep putting out more and more, but they will be continuing to pump a huge amount of CO2 out every year.

Here is the world.

Global CO2 emissions by year 1940-2024 | Statista

Annual global carbon dioxide emissions have increased by more than 60 percent since 1990 and are now at their highest ever levels.

www.statista.com

Here is Australia.

Australia co2 emissions per year 2023 | Statista

How much carbon dioxide does Australia produce? In 2023, Australia's greenhouse emissions were forecasted to reach a 10-year low of around 458 MMTCO2e.

www.statista.com

Some others.

Global CO₂ emissions by country 2023 | Statista

Annual CO₂ emissions in the U.S. have reduced since 2010, whereas China’s have increased by more than 30 percent.

www.statista.com

Oh look the USA have improved. Improvement is good right?

Australia are not the disgrace some seem to think.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Palau is making an effort … with renewables and we are helping and it’ll make a difference.
Going renewable isn’t just about climate change… it’s also about health.

https://www.aiffp.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-12/AIFFP_DSN_Factsheet_%232_Building%20Palau%27s%20first%20utility-scale%20solar%20power%20plant_20241212.pdf

Palau eyes 20% green energy this year

By Pacific Island Times News StaffPalau has set an ambitious target of achieving 20 percent of its electricity generation from renewable energy sources this year as it works toward hitting the goal of 100 percent by 2032. As a developing nation, Palau is focused on reducing reliance on imported...

www.pacificislandtimes.com

Nice, good on them. Will it save the planet? But they will feel warm and fuzzy about doing their bit and we can feel warm and fuzzy about helping them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Germany: carbon dioxide emissions 1990-2023 | Statista

Carbon dioxide emissions in Germany fell by more than 10 percent in 2023 to their lowest level for more than three decades.

www.statista.com

Germany emitted 73% more emissions than they would have if they retained Nuclear Power.
Imagine how magnificent their results would be if they had. They would be like France by now, but with more renewable s and less Nuclear.

 

[nut]

So far China have not reduced their emissions , how is this leading?
It is good that they are working on it , and won't keep putting out more and more, but they will be continuing to pump a huge amount of CO2 out every year.

Here is the world.

Global CO2 emissions by year 1940-2024 | Statista

Annual global carbon dioxide emissions have increased by more than 60 percent since 1990 and are now at their highest ever levels.

www.statista.com

Here is Australia.

Australia co2 emissions per year 2023 | Statista

How much carbon dioxide does Australia produce? In 2023, Australia's greenhouse emissions were forecasted to reach a 10-year low of around 458 MMTCO2e.

www.statista.com

Some others.

Global CO₂ emissions by country 2023 | Statista

Annual CO₂ emissions in the U.S. have reduced since 2010, whereas China’s have increased by more than 30 percent.

www.statista.com

Oh look the USA have improved. Improvement is good right?

Australia are not the disgrace some seem to think.

What those graph shows is the potential disaster India could become if we don’t show leadership and set an example…
Imagine India not GAF because Australia doesn’t….. etc..