The Way Forward

[Merv]

Some of you may remember me being very critical of our style of play during the pre season.

I had picked us to finish in 10th but after seeing our pre season, i dropped us down to 11th.

Now we have many many deficiancies as a club but the 2 biggest in order are

1: Our gameplan.
This chip chip backwards sidewards BS only makes it easier for us to be beaten.
When we hold onto the ball and chip it around, it just allows the opposite team to man up, flood our forward line, thus making us chip more.

Until we change our gameplan we are destined for failure.


2: Our whole club and a large majority of our supporters have an inflated opinion of ourselves.

We think we have a list good enough to play finals and even make statements here and there about top 4.
Our CEO came out and stated publicly that we were the best team to EVER finish in 15th spot.

This rubs off on our supporters, who many, including on here, thought with lloyd returning to the team, finals would follow.
After our 2 first HA wins, this turned to guaranteed top 8 possible top 4.
Delusional at worst, total optimism at best.

Our President publicly stated today that we have suffered from complacency as club.
That is the best statement i could have heard, as at least they are now admitting their failings in that area so they can start to rectify them.

We have many many deficiancies in our list, but i don't care what list we had until we change our style of play we won't get anywhere.

I am almost convinced it is not only time to get rid of Sheedy as coach at the end of the year, but i am really starting to come around to getting a NON Essendon person.

This is not sour grapes written after a loss but a collection of my thoughts, (that i have hinted at for awhile) that i have been mulling over for awhile now.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I agree.

I've posted in the where we are thread and it is dawning on me that we are becoming a second rate club in all facets.

We have become negative in the media, constantly play games with injuries and selection and portray a negative attitude.

We need to become elite again and it might take a few changes.

 

[Strike Swiftly]

agree. 2000 was a long time ago. we are at risk of becoming mediocre

 

[Crave]

agree. 2000 was a long time ago. we are at risk of becoming mediocre

We are mediocre.

 

[Strike Swiftly]

in all facets

 

[stander]

I am almost convinced it is not only time to get rid of Sheedy as coach at the end of the year, but i am really starting to come around to getting a NON Essendon person./quote]

Ahhh Swervyn, after 27 years you've nearly had enough. You've still the left the door open a bit you crafty soul.

 

[GmeUP]

Sydney won a premiership and followed it up with a runners up finish the next year using a chipping game.

 

[Crave]

Sydney won a premiership and followed it up with a runners up finish the next year using a chipping game.

They can at least hit most of their targets.

 

[ant555]

The problem we have isnt our game plan. If we are given the chance we are only too happy to play open attacking footy and it is our prefered style. The problem we have is we dont get enough run from our entire midfield which leads us to start kicking the ball sideways and backwards becasue of the lack of targets up field and the inability to break open the game on the switch.
We have Pev, Stanton and JJ that seem to be the only players who provide the run to space regulary. Other teams have 5 or 6 players doing this role and quite often they are a little better than our guys as well (eg Crawf and Mitchell v Pev and Stants)
People are venting their frustartion on any number of things but it stems from over rating our list. We are not a good side. I for one didnt expect us to be making the eight .
For me the problems are....

1) Ruck department. Hille is an average ruckman and he is our number one guy but to be honest he would struggle to be the number two guy at a number of clubs.
Laycock as number two is not experienced enough and becasue of his injury problems lacks the overall fitnees base to take on the number one role if needed.I have a little concern with him not being totaly focused with things 100% of the time. He is still learning but the jury is out as he has a ways to go.
Ryder can jump and get his hand to the ball but he is still very short of the mark as far as the around the ground work goes .
I am not convinced we have a good enough ruck coaching set up going either.

2) Midfield. Currently we only have Pev, Stanton and JJ that seem to be able to provide the continual run and find space all day. The problem with this is all three lack the real class of a Crawford or Rob Harvey. Pev is in career best form but ranking wise he is only what you would call your 4th or 5th mid. Stanton is a good young player but he isnt an elite midfielder either. Similar to JJ he is the type of player that gives great support to your top line mids (eg would be the number 3 guys behind a Crawford and Mitchell)

Next we have Hirdy. It is clear that he isnt as good as he was. He is still damaging at times but when he is at the clearance's he usually has the hardest tag and is mugged as soon as he grabs the footy. The drop off in his ability to really hurt other sides is hurting us as well.

Winderlich gets a pass here at the moment. Didnt show today what he had in the first three games but he was one guy who was providing run and speed.

After this we get to the disapointing/ failing to fire brigade.
Angus Monfries hasnt given us what we hoped he would in the middle. At this stage he probably isnt going as well as he was last year.He has talent and youth on his side but has yet to show mcuh at all as a midfielder.
Jobe Watson simply hasnt been as effective this year. The lack of confidence in his kicking seems to be having an effect on his overall game and he seems to be lacking some of the link work he provided last year.
Andrew Lovett , shows flash's of brilliance but still has to give us more over the whole game.
Ricky Dyson is going nowhere. Yes he does spend a lot of time on the bench but then so do a lot of mids from other clubs. Being benched at times didnt stop the Hawks boys today from coming on and making an imediate impact through hard running. Is simply too indicisive as to what he has to do when he is out there.
Chris Heffernan.Has been ok defencive but has rarley given us much as far as attack goes.

This all becomes a problem when you dont have a couple of super mids. Without them you simply have to get output from 5 or 6 of your lesser/unhearladed mids (aka Sydney) which we simply dont get.

As far as the club goes they identified a lot of deficient areas early in 2006 and put some mesures in place to start fixing them. The pre season work has been altered to work on skills which have been a little better over all than previous years.A lot of work on tackling and tackling technique has shown up as improvement. Both these areas still need more work but have been a bit better. The players have clearly been pushed harder in the fitness workload this pre season compared to other years.
More people have been added to recruiting so i guess we will see what happens in that area.
The coaching will be the next review and that is currently beeing assesed with the results from this year.

 

[Strike Swiftly]

our biggest downfall since 2000 has been our recruiting. average at best.

 

[ant555]

our biggest downfall since 2000 has been our recruiting. average at best.

Between 1999 and 2002 it was. Wouldnt say that 2003 and beyond has been bad Kepler Bradley aside.

 

[J.Hetfield]

our biggest downfall since 2000 has been our recruiting. average at best.

Yes, and lack of opportunity to those good kids who were...If Sam lonergan doesnt get a good run of games soon im going to impale myself on my essendon flag..What does he have to do?

 

[Merv]

stander
Ahhh Swervyn, after 27 years you've nearly had enough. You've still the left the door open a bit you crafty soul.

hehe, well he has at least earned that much.
He has fought back from some very tough periods in the past, and while i don't belive he will or can this time, he has at least earned the right to try.

 

[Motown]

The problem we have isnt our game plan. If we are given the chance we are only too happy to play open attacking footy and it is our prefered style. The problem we have is we dont get enough run from our entire midfield which leads us to start kicking the ball sideways and backwards becasue of the lack of targets up field and the inability to break open the game on the switch.

You're right. When things aren't going well for us and we fall back to chipping, Clarkson cops the same from Hawks supporters too. Most supporters can't seem to come to grips with the fact that chipping the ball about is a gameplan breakdown, not the gameplan itself.

We played a 3-4 man midfield zone today which you guys found hard to get through, hence the chipping. We tried the same against the dogs and it didn't work nearly as well because of their superior footskills and willingness to run through/around it in numbers.

The problem's more to do with execution than gameplan.

 

[Merv]

The problem we have isnt our game plan. If we are given the chance we are only too happy to play open attacking footy and it is our prefered style. The problem we have is we dont get enough run from our entire midfield which leads us to start kicking the ball sideways and backwards becasue of the lack of targets up field and the inability to break open the game on the switch.
We have Pev, Stanton and JJ that seem to be the only players who provide the run to space regulary. Other teams have 5 or 6 players doing this role and quite often they are a little better than our guys as well (eg Crawf and Mitchell v Pev and Stants)
People are venting their frustartion on any number of things but it stems from over rating our list. We are not a good side. I for one didnt expect us to be making the eight .
For me the problems are....

1) Ruck department. Hille is an average ruckman and he is our number one guy but to be honest he would struggle to be the number two guy at a number of clubs.
Laycock as number two is not experienced enough and becasue of his injury problems lacks the overall fitnees base to take on the number one role if needed.I have a little concern with him not being totaly focused with things 100% of the time. He is still learning but the jury is out as he has a ways to go.
Ryder can jump and get his hand to the ball but he is still very short of the mark as far as the around the ground work goes .
I am not convinced we have a good enough ruck coaching set up going either.

2) Midfield. Currently we only have Pev, Stanton and JJ that seem to be able to provide the continual run and find space all day. The problem with this is all three lack the real class of a Crawford or Rob Harvey. Pev is in career best form but ranking wise he is only what you would call your 4th or 5th mid. Stanton is a good young player but he isnt an elite midfielder either. Similar to JJ he is the type of player that gives great support to your top line mids (eg would be the number 3 guys behind a Crawford and Mitchell)

Next we have Hirdy. It is clear that he isnt as good as he was. He is still damaging at times but when he is at the clearance's he usually has the hardest tag and is mugged as soon as he grabs the footy. The drop off in his ability to really hurt other sides is hurting us as well.

Winderlich gets a pass here at the moment. Didnt show today what he had in the first three games but he was one guy who was providing run and speed.

After this we get to the disapointing/ failing to fire brigade.
Angus Monfries hasnt given us what we hoped he would in the middle. At this stage he probably isnt going as well as he was last year.He has talent and youth on his side but has yet to show mcuh at all as a midfielder.
Jobe Watson simply hasnt been as effective this year. The lack of confidence in his kicking seems to be having an effect on his overall game and he seems to be lacking some of the link work he provided last year.
Andrew Lovett , shows flash's of brilliance but still has to give us more over the whole game.
Ricky Dyson is going nowhere. Yes he does spend a lot of time on the bench but then so do a lot of mids from other clubs. Being benched at times didnt stop the Hawks boys today from coming on and making an imediate impact through hard running. Is simply too indicisive as to what he has to do when he is out there.
Chris Heffernan.Has been ok defencive but has rarley given us much as far as attack goes.

This all becomes a problem when you dont have a couple of super mids. Without them you simply have to get output from 5 or 6 of your lesser/unhearladed mids (aka Sydney) which we simply dont get.

As far as the club goes they identified a lot of deficient areas early in 2006 and put some mesures in place to start fixing them. The pre season work has been altered to work on skills which have been a little better over all than previous years.A lot of work on tackling and tackling technique has shown up as improvement. Both these areas still need more work but have been a bit better. The players have clearly been pushed harder in the fitness workload this pre season compared to other years.
More people have been added to recruiting so i guess we will see what happens in that area.
The coaching will be the next review and that is currently beeing assesed with the results from this year.

Good summary ant and while i agree with a lot, i think we still differ on our views of game plan.

If you watch the players up the field when we have the ball, they lead to about 15-20 mtres away from the players with the ball.
The player that takes a mark for example looks immedialtely to either switch play or chip it.

Now you are right when talk about the workrate and run of the opposition, but our style of play helps them in this area as it allows them more time to get back.

I also think we play our forwards too far up the ground, but that's another topic in itself

 

[ant555]

You're right. When things aren't going well for us and we fall back to chipping, Clarkson cops the same from Hawks supporters too. Most supporters can't seem to come to grips with the fact that chipping the ball about is a gameplan breakdown, not the gameplan itself.

We played a 3-4 man midfield zone today which you guys found hard to get through, hence the chipping. We tried the same against the dogs and it didn't work nearly as well because of their superior footskills and willingness to run through/around it in numbers.

The problem's more to do with execution than gameplan.

Yep i went and watched the Hawks v Bulldogs game last sunday and you are right it was the superior skills and willingness of all the Bulldogs players to run which lead them to break up the zones and win the game. Have to say that i was impressed with Hawthorns workrate all day despite the fact they lost and it was my big worry going into todays game.

 

[RED AND BLACK SOLDIER]

Good summary ant and while i agree with a lot, i think we still differ on our views of game plan.

If you watch the players up the field when we have the ball, they lead to about 15-20 mtres away from the players with the ball.
The player that takes a mark for example looks immedialtely to either switch play or chip it.

Now you are right when talk about the workrate and run of the opposition, but our style of play helps them in this area as it allows them more time to get back.

I also think we play our forwards too far up the ground, but that's another topic in itself

Wev'e got 2 of the best forwards in the league, i think we should just give Lloyd and Lucas space (in the forward 50) to lead into, with Davey at lurking around the forward 50 and our forward line would work alot better. It would also help if our disposal was alot better, has sheedy focused on speed and fitness too much and forgotten to worry about disposal?

 

[ant555]

Good summary ant and while i agree with a lot, i think we still differ on our views of game plan.

Well there will always be different slants on things

If you watch the players up the field when we have the ball, they lead to about 15-20 mtres away from the players with the ball.
The player that takes a mark for example looks immedialtely to either switch play or chip it.

Yes i do know what you are saying here and i think it stems from a lot of lazy work leading up to it. Sometimes we dont position ourselves correctly or we simply wander into space dragging our oponent along behind us rather than breaking fast and pushing hard into the open areas. we are also very slack in the area of second efforts. often players make a single lead and if it is ignored they stop rather than trying to work to another spot or to a spot for the next possession.

Now you are right when talk about the workrate and run of the opposition, but our style of play helps them in this area as it allows them more time to get back.

Yes it does which comes back to working and thinking at 120% all game.

I also think we play our forwards too far up the ground, but that's another topic in itself[

Yes it is and something we need to look at.

 

[ant555]

Wev'e got 2 of the best forwards in the league, i think we should just give Lloyd and Lucas space (in the forward 50) to lead into, with Davey at lurking around the forward 50 and our forward line would work alot better. It would also help if our disposal was alot better, has sheedy focused on speed and fitness too much and forgotten to worry about disposal?

There has been a big focus on skills and you would have to say that despite the mistakes we make our skills have improved this year.They still need further improvement particualry when we are under pressure but we dont make as many blunders when not under pressure as we did last year.
Like bee's to honey we often get too focussed on one traget rather than exploring all options .

 

[Dr Moose]

Yes i do know what you are saying here and i think it stems from a lot of lazy work leading up to it. Sometimes we dont position ourselves correctly or we simply wander into space dragging our oponent along behind us rather than breaking fast and pushing hard into the open areas. we are also very slack in the area of second efforts. often players make a single lead and if it is ignored they stop rather than trying to work to another spot or to a spot for the next possession.

As opposed to actually manning up on our opponents. This trait is a big change from what Michael was accustomed to at Brisbane, and why I'm not bagging him. He is a good FB, but the midfield he's been delivering the ball into for the past 5 years was far more capable than what he's aiming at now. I've got no problem with our forwards, our conversions once inside 50 isn't too bad, it's just getting the ball to them that's the crisis.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Where was our run from half back yesterday?

Mcphee was playing on Buddy, MJ is really struggling and then we have Ryder, Mal and Fletch.

Why play Mcphee on Buddy when we lose so much drive. Haven't we learned the lessons of the last few years?

He ended up kicking 9 anyway. They had a midget backline providing run. Collingwood last night had a small backline providing run as do the other sides.

Play Mal and Fletch and maybe Ryder on KPP's and let the others play there natural game.

 

[Audemars Piguet]

Between 1999 and 2002 it was. Wouldnt say that 2003 and beyond has been bad Kepler Bradley aside.

Recruitment has been a massive problem.

1999- 2001 was an insipid effort, only 2 players remain on the list from that 3 year period:- Hille and Welsh are nothing to get too exited about either.

As for 2002 onwards, only Stanton, Monfries have had a sustained impact, with Ryder and Winderlich just hitting their straps.

I thikn 2006 was a good year for us at the draft table, but it was for most clubs.

 

[Not a Wellman]

Good summary ant and while i agree with a lot, i think we still differ on our views of game plan.

If you watch the players up the field when we have the ball, they lead to about 15-20 mtres away from the players with the ball.
The player that takes a mark for example looks immedialtely to either switch play or chip it.

Now you are right when talk about the workrate and run of the opposition, but our style of play helps them in this area as it allows them more time to get back.

I also think we play our forwards too far up the ground, but that's another topic in itself

When we do try and run the ball, eg take a mark then try to give the hands off oppisition sides read us to well and put the bloke running past under pressure. Then our footskills let us down badly. Then we look worse then when we try and switch the play and chip around with it. Also why can't we kick it in front of Johns or Lucas instead of putting it on top of thier heads? And how come they seemed to have a loose man in defence and we didn't for half the match?

 

[M29]

Game plan wise we were totally fazzled when it came to hawforns flooding. How we allowed 3 or 4 loose men to run away with it in the middle was baffling. Some players are far to unaccountable.

That said, I'm saving most of my rage for our inevitable norf loss this friday night. At least hawforn have some handy players. Norf have no forward targets and are ordinary, but we're bound to play someone into form for 4 quarters.

Between 1999 and 2002 it was. Wouldnt say that 2003 and beyond has been bad Kepler Bradley aside.

Camporeale and Cole.

Utter rubbish.

 

[bomberstomake8]

i dont think our gameplan is the problem either, we do attack when we get an opening, its just that it rarely happens.. we chip because teams flood and it is a way of combating flooding.. we won the first few games because our disposal was great and we didnt have many turnovers. what i saw yesterday was woeful disposal.... ialso think we have a very poor work rate in our midfeild.... there quick with ricky, winderlick, lovett, but our engine room pretty much consists of stanton and now JJ. i dont think we overestimated ourselves, i think 6-10th was a good projection for our year, we have what has been touted by many (including many non essendon related supporters) as the best forward line in the comp and the stats show that too... our backline i think is in the top 3 in the comp, they get beaten only because our midfeild arent accountable for there players so the ball goes inside our defensive 50 twice as much as our forward 50.. its just our midfield and unfortunately for us it is proving to be the most important area of the game these days...