The wooden spoon needs the attention it deserves

[Rosstickle]

All you hear about in modern football is how every club is all about premierships. Fans, players and officials of clubs all say that the only thing that matters is winning premierships and nothing else matters.

When you think about why a premiership is so great it's because it is the ultimate success in the AFL. It crowns you as the best side in the league and gives you bragging rights over everyone.

Yet when teams win the wooden spoon they talk about playing young players and preparing for next year. They just seem to shrug it off like it's not that big a deal. Some teams are even accused of trying to finish last for draft picks.

With Richmond and Carlton racking up the spoons over the last few years we need to ask ourselves "how many flags would we need to win for it to be worth it?". Is it really worth picking up 2 or 3 spoons and being a laughing stock for 8 years if you only get 1 flag out of it? To be honest I'd need Richmond to win around 3 or 4 flags over the next 7 or 8 years for me to be content about the last few.

I know many people will come on here and say that this kind of thinking is why Richmond have been down for so long. But when you consider that if every team has premiership success at an even rate then we have to wait on average 16 years for each flag (18 in a couple of years time). Is it your team really a failure on 15 occasions if it makes 12 or so finals apperances and doesn't win a spoon in that time?

What I wan't to know is why don't we care about the spoon? It's the ultimate disgrace and the sign of ultimate failure in the AFL. How can you celebrate the highs if you don't hurt during the lows?

 

[Riggy1]

create a second league, with relegation.

Get rid of the Draft. and salary cap.

I think that will stop tanking and make the league more competitive from 3-16 (Adelaide and West Coast 1 and 2)

 

[Kahuna]

Get rid of the salary cap and Carlton and Collingwood would be winning flag after flag, I like the idea of Carlton winning them but not Collingwood.

 

[jonoman89]

The spoon has lost a lot of significance since all the equalisation methods were put in place by the VFL. With the draft and salary cap you could say it's just a matter of time before every club gets one, kind of on a rotational basis.

The spoon is also rewarded with a top class pick, so it's not all doom and gloom for the supporters. If you got nothing like in the old days, you'd be shattered. Not anymore.

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Melbourne have the flag rapped for the next few years, and even then they still wont win a thing.

 

[shotta]

create a second league, with relegation.

Get rid of the Draft. and salary cap.

I think that will stop tanking and make the league more competitive from 3-16 (Adelaide and West Coast 1 and 2)

Stick to Grid Iron.

 

[EagleMan87]

Get rid of the salary cap and Carlton and Collingwood would be winning flag after flag, I like the idea of Carlton winning them but not Collingwood.

Adelaide, Freo and West Coast are the richest clubs in the country by a long way.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Get rid of the salary cap and Carlton and Collingwood would be winning flag after flag, I like the idea of Carlton winning them but not Collingwood.

Psh, Adelaide/West coast/Essendon make much more money then Carlton

 

[Burzum]

Get rid of the salary cap and Carlton and Collingwood would be winning flag after flag, I like the idea of Carlton winning them but not Collingwood.

LOL.

More like Adelaide/West Coast/Essendon/Collingwood

 

[tripple_C]

hawthorn made what a 4+ million profit this year id say with more success like 2008 we could quickly be on par with those clubs in wealth

 

[malph]

hawthorn made what a 4+ million profit this year id say with more success like 2008 we could quickly be on par with those clubs in wealth

Until you're down again. Those clubs are constant.

 

[Rockford]

hawthorn made what a 4+ million profit this year id say with more success like 2008 we could quickly be on par with those clubs in wealth

This is almost as good an argument as any to keep the cap. You'd see every club whoring themselves out to make the dollars so they could buy up marquee players, pushing the wages up and up in the process.

Hawks would make 8+ million profit but Jeff would have sold another 4 games interstate, other clubs would invest more heavily in pokie establishments etc... Our game isn't entirely about money yet, I'd prefer it to stay that way.

I agree with the OP to an extent. For every year in the bottom 4 I'd want my club spending a couple in the top 4, and for every Spoon I'd be hoping for a Flag.

 

[Kahuna]

LOL.

More like Adelaide/West Coast/Essendon/Collingwood

Richard Pratt.

 

[Riggy1]

This is almost as good an argument as any to keep the cap. You'd see every club whoring themselves out to make the dollars so they could buy up marquee players, pushing the wages up and up in the process.

Hawks would make 8+ million profit but Jeff would have sold another 4 games interstate, other clubs would invest more heavily in pokie establishments etc... Our game isn't entirely about money yet, I'd prefer it to stay that way.

I agree with the OP to an extent. For every year in the bottom 4 I'd want my club spending a couple in the top 4, and for every Spoon I'd be hoping for a Flag.

I would like that with Carlton. 13 straight wooden spoons please

 

[Neville Bartos]

Great OP. Winning the spoon is a massive blight on your club and should be treated accordingly so. One of our best wins over the last 5 years was beating Richmond in the final game of 2004 to avoid the spoon, and although we didn't get the number 1 pick, we kept an impressive streak without winning the spoon going which is good for a club's morale.

Apparently only 1 club has won the flag after winning the spoon since the draft became a factor and that was Brisbane who went on to win 3 in-a-row, and they barely used Des Headland (their no.1 pick for the spoon). Winning the spoon is a bad omen on a club, and it seems to have a strong psychological lingering effect on the players involved.

 

[tin can sam]

Having more Spoons then flags is something that clubs should be embarrassed about.

Taking the spoon should be a real sense of shame for the players and the club.

 

[winty]

Great OP. Winning the spoon is a massive blight on your club and should be treated accordingly so. One of our best wins over the last 5 years was beating Richmond in the final game of 2004 to avoid the spoon, and although we didn't get the number 1 pick, we kept an impressive streak without winning the spoon going which is good for a club's morale.

Actually you played Geelong in the last game of the 2004 season, and had 3 players playing loose in the backline to prevent your percentage falling below Richmond's. Was a pity we didn't kick straight that day (we kicked something like 18.21) or we'd have given you the spoon.

 

[LordLucifer]

Might be an interesting exercise for somone to create a table based on one point for every flag won and minus one point for every spoon won.

I'd like to see how that pans out especially if it was done up to the draft/salary cap commencement and then completely up to now.

 

[GordonBlue]

Adelaide, Freo and West Coast are the richest clubs in the country by a long way.

Psh, Adelaide/West coast/Essendon make much more money then Carlton

neither West Coast, Fremantle or Adeliade or Essendon own a football stadium that can hold a reasonable footy attendance

Should the league be no salary cap, no draft etc. then each club will need to own their own stadium, or rent one out. This is why Carlton would generate much much more money than those 4 teams.

Right now we have the worst deal with TD in which would mean where west coast generate x amount of money for 40k at subi, we make x/4 for the same attedance. If there is no salary cap, this would be turned on its head.

If there is no salary and we sit initially in a better position than most team, we can then upgrade OO even further to accomadate more people.

Plus we have one of the best sponsorship deal than most club (hawthorn and Collingwood) better than us. however if relegation/promotion is to come in, Hawthorn's major sponsor will be gone.

Above all that, we have rich supporters in which would mean we would be able to afford to pay our player the most. Dick Pratt (and his friends) alone would fund more than any other team combine can be able to fund.

And with promotion and relegation, the weaker teams will drop to lower level comp, allowing for an increase in support for the bigger club, and hence just on that alone, teams like Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon would only grow. And because initially we would be better of (again this is going back to stadium and rich people at the club), we would win more as we'd spend more on players and not paying ground hire... which would win us more games, more flags and hence more fans.

Enjoy the economic study boys and girls, the test in next week (closed book)

 

[Rockford]

neither West Coast, Fremantle or Adeliade or Essendon own a football stadium that can hold a reasonable footy attendance

Should the league be no salary cap, no draft etc. then each club will need to own their own stadium, or rent one out. This is why Carlton would generate much much more money than those 4 teams.

Right now we have the worst deal with TD in which would mean where west coast generate x amount of money for 40k at subi, we make x/4 for the same attedance. If there is no salary cap, this would be turned on its head.

If there is no salary and we sit initially in a better position than most team, we can then upgrade OO even further to accomadate more people.

Plus we have one of the best sponsorship deal than most club (hawthorn and Collingwood) better than us. however if relegation/promotion is to come in, Hawthorn's major sponsor will be gone.

Above all that, we have rich supporters in which would mean we would be able to afford to pay our player the most. Dick Pratt (and his friends) alone would fund more than any other team combine can be able to fund.

And with promotion and relegation, the weaker teams will drop to lower level comp, allowing for an increase in support for the bigger club, and hence just on that alone, teams like Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon would only grow. And because initially we would be better of (again this is going back to stadium and rich people at the club), we would win more as we'd spend more on players and not paying ground hire... which would win us more games, more flags and hence more fans.

Enjoy the economic study boys and girls, the test in next week (closed book)

LOL, with promotion and relegation brought in Carlton wouldn't be playing in the AFL anymore.

 

[GordonBlue]

LOL, with promotion and relegation brought in Carlton wouldn't be playing in the AFL anymore.

you obviously don't have a clue how it would work

 

[tin can sam]

Actually you played Geelong in the last game of the 2004 season, and had 3 players playing loose in the backline to prevent your percentage falling below Richmond's. Was a pity we didn't kick straight that day (we kicked something like 18.21) or we'd have given you the spoon.

That's pretty good form from the Hawks.

Obviously avoiding a spoon was important to the club, regardless of opposition and potential draft picks.

Shows what a disgrace Carlton are really.

 

[winty]

Might be an interesting exercise for somone to create a table based on one point for every flag won and minus one point for every spoon won.

I'd like to see how that pans out especially if it was done up to the draft/salary cap commencement and then completely up to now.

Carlton 13 (16 flags, 3 spoons)
Essendon 12 (16 flags, 4 spoons)
Collingwood 12 (14 flags, 2 spoons)
Richmond 3 (10 flags, 7 spoons)
West Coast 3 (3 flags)
Adelaide 2 (2 flags)
Geelong 2 (7 flags, 5 spoons)
Brisbane Lions 2 (3 flags, 1 spoon)
Melbourne 1 (12 flags, 11 spoons)
Port Adelaide 1 (1 flag)
Fitzroy 0 (8 flags, 8 spoons)
Fremantle -1 (1 spoon)
Hawthorn -1 (10 flags, 11 spoons)
Brisbane Bears -2 (2 spoons)
Western Bulldogs -3 (1 flag, 4 spoons)
University -4 (4 spoons)
Sydney -7 (4 flags, 11 spoons)
Kangaroos -9 (4 flags, 13 spoons)
St. Kilda -25 (1 flag, 26 spoons)

That's the total one. Up until the salary cap it'd look like...

Carlton 14 (14 flags)
Collingwood 12 (13 flags, 1 spoon)
Essendon 9 (13 flags, 4 spoons)
Richmond 7 (10 flags, 3 spoons)
Melbourne 3 (12 flags, 9 spoons)
Fitzroy 2 (8 flags, 6 spoons)
Geelong 1 (6 flags, 5 spoons)
Western Bulldogs -2 (1 flag, 3 spoons)
University -4 (4 spoons)
Sydney -5 (3 flags, 8 spoons)
Hawthorn -6 (5 flags, 11 spoons)
Kangaroos -11 (2 flags, 13 spoons)
St. Kilda -21 (1 flag, 22 spoons)

 

[Rockford]

you obviously don't have a clue how it would work

You're right, I have no idea how your fantasy works.

Blues have been rubbish over the preceding seasons, they'd have been relegated.

 

[Rockford]

So since the salary cap we've got:

Hawthorn 5 (5 flags, 0 spoons)
Essendon 3 (3 flags, 0 spoons)
West Coast 3 (3 flags, 0 spoons)
Brisbane Lions 2 (3 flags, 1 spoon)
Adelaide 2 (2 flags, 0 spoons)
Kangaroos 2 (2 flags, 0 spoons)
Geelong 1 (1 flag, 0 spoons)
Port Adelaide 1 (1 flag, 0 spoons)
Collingwood 0 (1 flag, 1 spoon)
Carlton -1 (2 flags, 3 spoons)
Fremantle -1 (0 flags, 1 spoon)
Western Bulldogs -1 (0 flags, 1 spoon)
Brisbane Bears -2 (0 flags, 2 spoons)
Fitzroy - 2 (0 flags, 2 spoons)
Melbourne -2 (0 flags, 2 spoons)
Sydney -3 (1 flag, 4 spoons)
Richmond -4 (0 flags, 4 spoons)
St Kilda -4 (0 flags, 4 spoons)

Either my maths is out or your figures were winty, Flags add up to 24 and Spoons to 25....

Obviously that list is very black and white, doesn't take into consideration making Grand Finals or missing out on finals altogether; more recently, finishing top 4 or bottom 4.