Discussion Thoughts at the Bye

[George]

What are we thinking as we head into the bye? How are we tracking compared to this time last year?

I think we're more compact and better structurally but the same issues above the shoulders continue to plague us. I'm almost certain this list isn't up to it in terms of going deep in finals and winning a flag.

We are more consistent than last year, in that we seem to give effort for longer. Last year it would be 10-15min bursts to win games, this year it's more measured.

I think we make finals from here but can't see us doing any damage. Heaps to improve on. Need to be more resilient. Only really should've beaten Port and Hawthorn out of the 4 losses so far IMO.

Also expecting a decent cleanout at end of year, lots of guys who have been in the system for several years just aren't up to it.

 

[Miha]

We're all thinking the same downfall we saw last year is upon us. If we roll out with the same midfield you can expect the same result. I just want to see us blooding the youngsters, no point making up numbers in finals because that's all we'll do though who knows if we even make the 8.

 

[gringo2011]

Looks like it wasn't Ratts. At least Lyon will teach them how to be professionals when we rebuild again. We ruined a few careers under the last 2 "coaches". Hopefully we move on plenty of them. Most of them I'm done with. I can't be bothered investing any more trust in them.

 

[sunny3193]

I hear CC’s are reviewing their sponsorship proposal.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

We are in a transitional phase, youth is looking good and have energy and it is our older players that are the ones who will hopefully be phased out in 18 months time.

Would like to see how Jack Hayes would go as the 3rd tall/2nd ruck with King and Caminiti and allow us to have Owens as a pure mid.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Had us anywhere from 8-14 coming in.
When we had all the injuries I thought we’d be doing well to finish outside bottom 4ish.

Really liked the way the side was playing and looking early rounds. Whether it was youthful exuberance, lack of perceived pressure, the oppo not knowing wtf was going on with a Japanese boy and a steakhouse waiter double headed attack up forward, or an actual gameplan being implemented- who knows.

Since then, it has been the senior players letting us down. And in a big way. Mids have been MIA for 5 weeks. Crouch the best of them.

We’re screaming out for midfield talent, and pace. Jones went ok at times because he had wheels. If we can find an A grader (Parish), I’d keep Sincs through there permanently as a massively upgraded Jones.

To those saying nothing has changed since last year, I’ll counter with this;
Nas has levelled up, and continues to improve.
Owens is clearly a superstar in the making. With the exception of King, can’t recall a young player exciting me as much.
That being said, Pou is a micron off that same excitement level. The kid really should have been in this year’s draft, he is classy and confident beyond his years.
Stocker has slotted in perfectly. He is one we can count on to never take a backwards step, never let his teammates down.
King is a freak. When we sort our midfield woes he wins the Coleman, really is as simple as that.
Wood has levelled up.
Caminiti could be very handy, impressive hands and very hard at it.
Higgins back to near his best (today the exception.


I share the frustration of many with Windy not getting a game. Personally, I’d have him in for Ross. Steele also needs time off to have a good feed and get some emotion behind those dead eyes.

Overall I’d say we’re exceeding expectations from Sept last year. Will give RTB the season before passing judgement, he’s not had the easiest of starts, but would like to see him make changes more readily.

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

My hope for the remainder of the year is to see the club and the players correct this drop in momentum and direction.
I also think we need to be very bold at the trade table. Very few safe imo.

 

[gringo2011]

Had us anywhere from 8-14 coming in.
When we had all the injuries I thought we’d be doing well to finish outside bottom 4ish.

Really liked the way the side was playing and looking early rounds. Whether it was youthful exuberance, lack of perceived pressure, the oppo not knowing wtf was going on with a Japanese boy and a steakhouse waiter double headed attack up forward, or an actual gameplan being implemented- who knows.

Since then, it has been the senior players letting us down. And in a big way. Mids have been MIA for 5 weeks. Crouch the best of them.

We’re screaming out for midfield talent, and pace. Jones went ok at times because he had wheels. If we can find an A grader (Parish), I’d keep Sincs through there permanently as a massively upgraded Jones.

To those saying nothing has changed since last year, I’ll counter with this;
Nas has levelled up, and continues to improve.
Owens is clearly a superstar in the making. With the exception of King, can’t recall a young player exciting me as much.
That being said, Pou is a micron off that same excitement level. The kid really should have been in this year’s draft, he is classy and confident beyond his years.
Stocker has slotted in perfectly. He is one we can count on to never take a backwards step, never let his teammates down.
King is a freak. When we sort our midfield woes he wins the Coleman, really is as simple as that.
Wood has levelled up.
Caminiti could be very handy, impressive hands and very hard at it.
Higgins back to near his best (today the exception.


I share the frustration of many with Windy not getting a game. Personally, I’d have him in for Ross. Steele also needs time off to have a good feed and get some emotion behind those dead eyes.

Overall I’d say we’re exceeding expectations from Sept last year. Will give RTB the season before passing judgement, he’s not had the easiest of starts, but would like to see him make changes more readily.

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

My hope for the remainder of the year is to see the club and the players correct this drop in momentum and direction.
I also think we need to be very bold at the trade table. Very few safe imo.

Thanks legend, I needed that. Despondency was kicking in.

 

[Mowman]

Had us anywhere from 8-14 coming in.
When we had all the injuries I thought we’d be doing well to finish outside bottom 4ish.

Really liked the way the side was playing and looking early rounds. Whether it was youthful exuberance, lack of perceived pressure, the oppo not knowing wtf was going on with a Japanese boy and a steakhouse waiter double headed attack up forward, or an actual gameplan being implemented- who knows.

Since then, it has been the senior players letting us down. And in a big way. Mids have been MIA for 5 weeks. Crouch the best of them.

We’re screaming out for midfield talent, and pace. Jones went ok at times because he had wheels. If we can find an A grader (Parish), I’d keep Sincs through there permanently as a massively upgraded Jones.

To those saying nothing has changed since last year, I’ll counter with this;
Nas has levelled up, and continues to improve.
Owens is clearly a superstar in the making. With the exception of King, can’t recall a young player exciting me as much.
That being said, Pou is a micron off that same excitement level. The kid really should have been in this year’s draft, he is classy and confident beyond his years.
Stocker has slotted in perfectly. He is one we can count on to never take a backwards step, never let his teammates down.
King is a freak. When we sort our midfield woes he wins the Coleman, really is as simple as that.
Wood has levelled up.
Caminiti could be very handy, impressive hands and very hard at it.
Higgins back to near his best (today the exception.


I share the frustration of many with Windy not getting a game. Personally, I’d have him in for Ross. Steele also needs time off to have a good feed and get some emotion behind those dead eyes.

Overall I’d say we’re exceeding expectations from Sept last year. Will give RTB the season before passing judgement, he’s not had the easiest of starts, but would like to see him make changes more readily.

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

My hope for the remainder of the year is to see the club and the players correct this drop in momentum and direction.
I also think we need to be very bold at the trade table. Very few safe imo.

Great post
Hard to disagree with any of it

 

[George]

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

Why does it baffle you? He is the one that signed off on the whole Ratten fiasco. Fires a coach 3 months after re-signing him, lmao.

Cleaned house yet kept Lethlean there, one of the key decision makers, and even promoted him. Many here fault Lethlean as the reason for the mess or at least a huge part of it, yet Bassat moves him up the pecking order.

Changed the club's whole direction based off a convo on a boat cruise. Went after Lyon because Lyon did well for us 15 years ago. The amount of past players and staff at the club now is boys club type stuff. If it just so happened that these types were the best available and it was coincidence that they played or coached for us then fair enough but you'd have to have rocks in your head to believe that.

Not to mention the complete misreading of where we were at as a club, letting us go and appoint established players that weren't getting us to a premiership because in his mind that was what was required.

He's a very messy operator and had to spend the off-season cleaning up the shit that he originally signed off on.

Agree with the rest of your post. Think we've had some players really come on this year and like I said we look like a better drilled side.

Just no excuses letting a club that is battling for the spoon kick 5 unanswered goals on us in the fourth quarter to win a game.

 

[Miha]

Club is built on a losing culture. That’s what we are

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Club is built on a losing culture. That’s what we are

Have a rest mate. The sooking is unbecoming.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Why does it baffle you? He is the one that signed off on the whole Ratten fiasco. Fires a coach 3 months after re-signing him, lmao.

Cleaned house yet kept Lethlean there, one of the key decision makers, and even promoted him. Many here fault Lethlean as the reason for the mess or at least a huge part of it, yet Bassat moves him up the pecking order.

Changed the club's whole direction based off a convo on a boat cruise. Went after Lyon because Lyon did well for us 15 years ago. The amount of past players and staff at the club now is boys club type stuff. If it just so happened that these types were the best available and it was coincidence that they played or coached for us then fair enough but you'd have to have rocks in your head to believe that.

Not to mention the complete misreading of where we were at as a club, letting us go and appoint established players that weren't getting us to a premiership because in his mind that was what was required.

He's a very messy operator and had to spend the off-season cleaning up the s**t that he originally signed off on.

Agree with the rest of your post. Think we've had some players really come on this year and like I said we look like a better drilled side.

Just no excuses letting a club that is battling for the spoon kick 5 unanswered goals on us in the fourth quarter to win a game.

Will reply when I don’t have cans in me/can be bothered xoxo

 

[George]

Will reply when I don’t have cans in me/can be bothered xoxo

Nah reply now it's more exciting. I'm willing to put my verbal heavyweight championship of the world on the line.

 

[StFly]

Looks like it wasn't Ratts. At least Lyon will teach them how to be professionals when we rebuild again. We ruined a few careers under the last 2 "coaches". Hopefully we move on plenty of them. Most of them I'm done with. I can't be bothered investing any more trust in them.

It was, we're only halfway through and there's signs of a more complete version than under Ratts even though similar issues arise of a HFF failure and some midfield issues with defense being generally positive.

Ratts lucked out since Covid shoved everyone to the middle, rather heavy reliance on recovery and just action nuances and when Ratts needed to find a way outside of "kick it on Mings head and get cheapies out the back" he couldn't, meanwhile we've managed to find Owens as a CHF ruck chop out mid god and a Pou that likes to lead at the footy and kick from 50. It's just sometimes shit happens and it wouldn't be us if it didn't happen often.

Had us anywhere from 8-14 coming in.
When we had all the injuries I thought we’d be doing well to finish outside bottom 4ish.

Really liked the way the side was playing and looking early rounds. Whether it was youthful exuberance, lack of perceived pressure, the oppo not knowing wtf was going on with a Japanese boy and a steakhouse waiter double headed attack up forward, or an actual gameplan being implemented- who knows.

Since then, it has been the senior players letting us down. And in a big way. Mids have been MIA for 5 weeks. Crouch the best of them.

We’re screaming out for midfield talent, and pace. Jones went ok at times because he had wheels. If we can find an A grader (Parish), I’d keep Sincs through there permanently as a massively upgraded Jones.

To those saying nothing has changed since last year, I’ll counter with this;
Nas has levelled up, and continues to improve.
Owens is clearly a superstar in the making. With the exception of King, can’t recall a young player exciting me as much.
That being said, Pou is a micron off that same excitement level. The kid really should have been in this year’s draft, he is classy and confident beyond his years.
Stocker has slotted in perfectly. He is one we can count on to never take a backwards step, never let his teammates down.
King is a freak. When we sort our midfield woes he wins the Coleman, really is as simple as that.
Wood has levelled up.
Caminiti could be very handy, impressive hands and very hard at it.
Higgins back to near his best (today the exception.


I share the frustration of many with Windy not getting a game. Personally, I’d have him in for Ross. Steele also needs time off to have a good feed and get some emotion behind those dead eyes.

Overall I’d say we’re exceeding expectations from Sept last year. Will give RTB the season before passing judgement, he’s not had the easiest of starts, but would like to see him make changes more readily.

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

My hope for the remainder of the year is to see the club and the players correct this drop in momentum and direction.
I also think we need to be very bold at the trade table. Very few safe imo.

I'd just add since Owens is trending to midfield, I have similar scream to our F50 as it's Ming and Higgins or bust without Owens there as Caminiti is just too new to know where he lands. Butler literally gets picked up by strong core guys of varying sizes, he has zero body in a contest, literal man child. Gresh has done SFA to his disposal, is a liability. We really need Hayes and Keeler to provide support and depth to KP stocks in that F50 or we're back to bombing on smalls heads and a 3v1 Ming and it depresses me.

As I don't have any expectation pre round 7 as really it's all work rate and turnover up to that point mostly, we're good enough for 6-10th, Ratts with Covid bonus was anywhere from 4th to 14th, in general play, man robbed F50 to sure up defense so would be lucky to get 8th, RTB doesn't have that problem. Post bye, I just want further growth in the base, so since we went away from plans as fatigue sets in and sides work out solutions to, just becoming slightly smarter working slightly harder more often and just incremental things will be fine with me.

 

[Munga]

Feels like the opposition worked out our game a while ago, was probably against Port. A month since and no sign of a plan B.

The list have done well considering, but have recently slackened off just 1%. Sticking with the same players, even after getting pumped, playing ourselves out of form, a few with injuries who we keep throwing out there... It's gone sour.

Considering this was meant to be the season RTB tries a few things and sees where we're at, I'm unsure why we've stuck with the same old stagnant stuff, plan and players. We've changed neither.

 

[Miha]

Have a rest mate. The sooking is unbecoming.

Am I wrong?

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Is weird seeing some of you guys make meaningful comments.

Following this team is a hell of a ride. I signed up a while ago and I ain't getting off anytime soon.

 

[MrFoster]

Feels like the opposition worked out our game a while ago, was probably against Port. A month since and no sign of a plan B.

The list have done well considering, but have recently slackened off just 1%. Sticking with the same players, even after getting pumped, playing ourselves out of form, a few with injuries who we keep throwing out there... It's gone sour.

Considering this was meant to be the season RTB tries a few things and sees where we're at, I'm unsure why we've stuck with the same old stagnant stuff, plan and players. We've changed neither.

Also got to do with the fact that the game plan that we started the season with is very taxing and intense, inevitably our players get fatigued and other team’s fitness catch up, plus every team is deliberately using tactics to counter our style.. an almost a repeat of last season.. Last season we didn’t have a plan B, Ratten didn’t even think we had a problem/needed a plan B.

Let’s see how the so called master coach does any better after the bye.. One thing is for sure, we played an uncontested style of footy early in the season using our superior fitness, winning ground balls with extra numbers and applying frontal pressure to force turnover, when all these advantages have been taken away, our contested ball winning ability especially in the midfield is just not good enough compared to the good sides..

players consistently lose 1 on 1 contests or does not provide enough much pressure to win the ball back :

• Backs: Howard, Paton, NWM (first year player)
• Mids: Ross, Hill
• Forwards: Gresham, Higgins, Philippou (first year player)

That’s 8 players from 18..

Good contest players:

• Backs: Wilkie, Stocker, Battle, Sinclair
• Mids: Crouch, Steele (when not injured), Wood, Marshall
• Forwards: King, Caminiti, Butler.

Really need to build the side around good contested players and make sure Philippou and NWM can also win their own ball consistently.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Had us anywhere from 8-14 coming in.
When we had all the injuries I thought we’d be doing well to finish outside bottom 4ish.

Really liked the way the side was playing and looking early rounds. Whether it was youthful exuberance, lack of perceived pressure, the oppo not knowing wtf was going on with a Japanese boy and a steakhouse waiter double headed attack up forward, or an actual gameplan being implemented- who knows.

Since then, it has been the senior players letting us down. And in a big way. Mids have been MIA for 5 weeks. Crouch the best of them.

We’re screaming out for midfield talent, and pace. Jones went ok at times because he had wheels. If we can find an A grader (Parish), I’d keep Sincs through there permanently as a massively upgraded Jones.

To those saying nothing has changed since last year, I’ll counter with this;
Nas has levelled up, and continues to improve.
Owens is clearly a superstar in the making. With the exception of King, can’t recall a young player exciting me as much.
That being said, Pou is a micron off that same excitement level. The kid really should have been in this year’s draft, he is classy and confident beyond his years.
Stocker has slotted in perfectly. He is one we can count on to never take a backwards step, never let his teammates down.
King is a freak. When we sort our midfield woes he wins the Coleman, really is as simple as that.
Wood has levelled up.
Caminiti could be very handy, impressive hands and very hard at it.
Higgins back to near his best (today the exception.


I share the frustration of many with Windy not getting a game. Personally, I’d have him in for Ross. Steele also needs time off to have a good feed and get some emotion behind those dead eyes.

Overall I’d say we’re exceeding expectations from Sept last year. Will give RTB the season before passing judgement, he’s not had the easiest of starts, but would like to see him make changes more readily.

George your comment re: Bassatt “having nfi” does baffle me, if not satire. A self made billionaire, ruthless enough to see we were going nowhere with Ratts. He is no dummy and is certainly above the “boys club” trope. How many clubs would love Ross as their coach? I’d say a few.

My hope for the remainder of the year is to see the club and the players correct this drop in momentum and direction.
I also think we need to be very bold at the trade table. Very few safe imo.

Surprisingly good take with lots of reasoned discussion of many of the good and bad bits of our season so far. Only bit I really disagree with is the bit about getting Parish but only small

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Surprisingly good take with lots of reasoned discussion of many of the good and bad bits of our season so far. Only bit I really disagree with is the bit about getting Parish but only small

Surprisingly good you reckon

 

[George]

Surprisingly good take with lots of reasoned discussion of many of the good and bad bits of our season so far. Only bit I really disagree with is the bit about getting Parish but only small

There's a brain in there after all, who would've thought

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Calmed down a bit from last night but still pretty deflated at what has happened since the opening month. Most frustrating thing is how similar it feels to last year in a lot of ways. Yesterday was very much like the Essendon game from last year and eerily we have the Swans in Sydney next, I think we all know how that will go.

But never the less some big positives at the half way mark.

- Caminiti: Come from the absolute clouds and looks like a long term KPF for the club. Is very inconsistent to be expected but need to keep getting games into him.
King: In the two games back looks absolutely primed for me, genuinely excited for the second half of the year, will be dominant in my opinion.
Pou: Superstar in the making, has all the traits to be an elite mid/forward, sign him long term and get 50 games into him as quickly as possible.
Michito: Again superstar in the making. Most dominant player around the ball for his age I have ever seen. Could be the best player in the comp. That’s the ceiling.
Wood, Sinclair and Wilkie: Continued on from last year both would all be deserved all Australians this year.
Byrnes: Found a role and works extremely hard, think he is a long term role player for us. Very solid.
NAS: Coming on in leaps and bounds, will be a star, best kick in the team.
Game plan: More consistent within games, better defensively, more levers to pull.


Negatives
Gresham: Looks like being a forever unfulfilled talent to me. Just never seems to improve on his obvious deficiencies. Would let him go.
Slow old starting mids: Same issue we’ve had forever, can’t spread and drop their bundle when things go wrong, Steele a particular worry for me.
Howard: Poor player for me, gets beaten most weeks and poor decision maker, need to identify an alternative.
Windy: Clearly has the traits to be a great player but isn’t getting an opportunity over the old brigade. Needs games in the ones in the second half of the year. If we are gonna take our lumps with Caminiti and Pou in the ones not sure why Windy would be any different.
Same mental frailties: Poor leadership still an issue IMO, revert to bad habits under pressure. For me this will be the hardest thing for Ross to change, very hard to undue a losing culture.

All in all some big positives and genuinely excited about the kids but also some clear negatives. But I think we knew where we were at if we are honest by the first month raised hopes that maybe we were better then we are.

 

[austinnn]

Looks like it wasn't Ratts. At least Lyon will teach them how to be professionals when we rebuild again. We ruined a few careers under the last 2 "coaches". Hopefully we move on plenty of them. Most of them I'm done with. I can't be bothered investing any more trust in them.

It absolutely was Ratts, but not just Ratts. The shit culture allowed to develop since Ross bailed is hard to get rid of and the proof is that we were far better when most of our players were kids who haven't been in the Saints system that long.

Ross has got zero pressure on him, he could finish the season with a wooden spoon and the sack and still get half the clubs in the AFL begging him to join them. He's loving the Roos style mentoring.

We're heading in the right direction but I didn't expect it to be linear and it's not. This year can still be great, but we need a huge jump from the players, and fearless team selection.

 

[MordySaint]

Lack of onfield leadership is the main issue.

Our cattle is OK -> Good.

Wilkie should have been captain, was very surprised when they announced Steele was captain again. It would have been the perfect time to change onfield leadership.

 

[Joffaboy]

Sack Lyon

Dard mentioned we are 'screaming out for quality mids', only since about 2012.

But nah we take Billings over Bont (total hindsight this one) we take Paddy over Trac ( absolute travesty), we take two half back flankers in Coff and Hunter with Hunter only just getting mid time Coff never there.
Our mid selection Hanners, 15 games in 4 years, Jones, gonski, Bytel and Byrnes late dps.
We get torn to spreads by the 16th placed teams mids yesterday but who does the media link us with as a trade, a half back flanker that's who.
We repeat the same mistakes year after year, we have some young talent who could run through the mids but most have less than 20 games.
We will never ever learn that it starts and finishes in the midfield.


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