Time to go Izzy

[NUFC Tiger]

I still think he could offer something. I didn't think much of Hunt last year but he has really shown a bit this year. Give Izzy another season to try and show something.

 

[ausbacker]

Ausbacker,

Think about what you're saying. For example, GWS approach an under-contract player, say 'We'd like you to move to GWS'. He goes 'Sure, pay me $2m over 3 years and Im there'. Club goes 'He'll cost 2 first round picks'. GWS goes 'We like him, but we'll offer a first round pick'. Club goes 'Two or nothing'. GWS goes 'OK, nothing'.

And thats without the vicious retaliation promised by coaches to any player who does announce they are going to an expansion club - in the case I've outlined, whats the odds on the player being banished to the twos for disloyalty ?

Now, does the player go public and demand the trade ? Think about what that does to team harmony. Does the players manager, or the club, ever leak anything ? Of course they do ! And in both directions - 'Club rebuffs GWS attempt to entice under-contract player`.

Finally, we did sound a lot of very good players out. Review, for example, a number of fine threads on the Collingwood board in 2011.

Bluntly, they didnt want to sign with us.

So we paid overs for Tom Scully, Phil Davis, Callan Ward and Rhys Palmer.

Let's not play the you haven't thought out a proper response IanW. I have thought out a response and presented it to you. The issue is you don't agree with that position (which is fine).

When compared against other sports around the world, the AFL is light years behind in list management and player-commodity establishment. As I mentioned, that's an industry problem not a Suns or Giants problem.

 

[IanW]

Let's not play the you haven't thought out a proper response IanW. I have thought out a response and presented it to you. The issue is you don't agree with that position (which is fine).

When compared against other sports around the world, the AFL is light years behind in list management and player-commodity establishment. As I mentioned, that's an industry problem not a Suns or Giants problem.

Ausbacker,

The reality that exists is the one GWS and GC live in. Therefore, teams packed full of cheap kids, with a smattering of free agents, only some of them good, and a plan on re-signing the six or eight of the best of the kids to form the well-paid core of a dominant team.

A price of that is regular beatings in the years, interspersed with good quarters and decent halves of football.

The role of Hunt and Folau in these teams is to be free rolls with Vlad's money. If they work out, its another good player. If they dont, they dont cost either of the AFL's two currencies in salary cap or draft picks.

 

[Ando727]

Even as a complete failure on the field, the signing of Falou has been a massive win for the AFL. Izzy's pay packet is peanuts compared to the value of the exposure gained by stealing him.

But when he goes back to NRL, isn't that an equal shot in the arm for rugby? I see it as a bit of a nil-all draw. AFL didn't benefit as greatly as was hoped because he's so crap. NRL will recover from the humiliation because they will get him back. The only definitive thing to come out of it is the proof that money talks.

 

[beta_condition]

Hunt looked lost but was never as badly out of sorts as Izzy looks, and I was also one of Karmichael's advocates last year particularly when he was down.

Izzy may yet still make it, but it just shows that AFL may not be for everyone, and it definately isn't a game code hoppers can just step into and instantly thrive. Hypothetically, I'd also expect Slater or Cronk to struggle for a few years before coming on even better then either Izzy or Hunt.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...=25&pid2=3638&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2007&fid2=S

Not a clear example but enough to show Izzy is far from done, have to agree with an earlier post might pay to throw him in the rack and pitch hit at FF.

 

[IanW]

But when he goes back to NRL, isn't that an equal shot in the arm for rugby?

Nope, it's irrelevant for rugby. Its probably a shot in the arm for league though.

 

[falcons2]

Could he play for a club with a better mid field? Say Carlton?

 

[Ando727]

Nope, it's irrelevant for rugby. Its probably a shot in the arm for league though.

Oh great, another one of those pedantic responses. I wonder what the R is for in NRL then...

 

[the distributer]

The distributor,

Have you seen any of the early tape of campaigner play ? "Green as grass" is putting it nicely.

But he had at least played the game before, he had an understanding of it, Izzy didn't, most of us local comp hacks would look like a duck out of water playing in the AFL as well, IMO Hunt's younger days playing Aussie rules (even though he didn't play much) put him in good stead, it's the only reason he actually looks like an AFL standard player IMO.

 

[the distributer]

I don't care if you're Micheal Jordan or lebron James, if you don't like the sport you're playing or your heart isn't in it 100% you'll never make it, we all know Izzy crossed over for the $, he has to ask himself the question.

 

[Furn]

He's played like 10 games, he's done about as much as no1 pick Jack Watts did 15 weeks into his first season ( not having a go, Watts is going well ATM) but the point stands if he was a pick 40 kpf no one would say anything except h needs time.

 

[bluemarq]

I still think he could offer something. I didn't think much of Hunt last year but he has really shown a bit this year. Give Izzy another season to try and show something.

But that presupposes top athletes can switch from one code to another with the proper amount of training and dedication.

Even an athlete as phenomenonly gifted as Michael Jordan struggled to adjust to minor league baseball. Hunt had at least some experience playing AFL, and that probably gave him some sort of cognitive base for developing footy skills that he's carried since childhood. At Folau's age, it might be too late to train his brain to play AFL at anything above club level. While I don't blame Folau for taking the money - I would have done the same if I were him - it must be extremely frustrating and depressing for a professional athlete to see their talents squandered in such a manner, particularly since their careers are so short.

 

[calyam]

But he had at least played the game before, he had an understanding of it, Izzy didn't, most of us local comp hacks would look like a duck out of water playing in the AFL as well, IMO Hunt's younger days playing Aussie rules (even though he didn't play much) put him in good stead, it's the only reason he actually looks like an AFL standard player IMO.

The reality is that both Folau and Hunt have been equally unproductive in their first season. There is little to no identifiable difference in their output in their first season of AFL. I've watched a number of GWS games this season and while Folau does look lost quite often he does do some really nice thing from time to time. In my opinion, it is way too early to say whether Folau can make it as a legitimate footballer but given he is younger than Hunt and possesses superior physical gifts he is at least a chance.

 

[IanW]

Oh great, another one of those pedantic responses. I wonder what the R is for in NRL then...

Ando,

Rugby and league are two distinct codes, with two sets of players, two sets of administrators and they dont like each other very much, and have been running their own private little war for a century.

Really, its like thinking the SANFL and the AFL are the same organisation.

 

[bluemarq]

The reality is that both Folau and Hunt have been equally unproductive in their first season. There is little to no identifiable difference in their output in their first season of AFL..

Hunt was and is the substantially superior footy player to Folau. It was evident from about the middle of last year that he had the skills to at least be a decent journeyman player who could honestly compete for a place on the list of most AFL clubs. Folau, on the other hand, has shown no sign that he is able to play at AFL level.

 

[the distributer]

The reality is that both Folau and Hunt have been equally unproductive in their first season. There is little to no identifiable difference in their output in their first season of AFL. I've watched a number of GWS games this season and while Folau does look lost quite often he does do some really nice thing from time to time. In my opinion, it is way too early to say whether Folau can make it as a legitimate footballer but given he is younger than Hunt and possesses superior physical gifts he is at least a chance.

His heart has to be in it though.

 

[IanW]

But that presupposes top athletes can switch from one code to another with the proper amount of training and dedication.

Even an athlete as phenomenonly gifted as Michael Jordan struggled to adjust to minor league baseball. Hunt had at least some experience playing AFL, and that probably gave him some sort of cognitive base for developing footy skills that he's carried since childhood. At Folau's age, it might be too late to train his brain to play AFL at anything above club level. While I don't blame Folau for taking the money - I would have done the same if I were him - it must be extremely frustrating and depressing for a professional athlete to see their talents squandered in such a manner, particularly since their careers are so short.

People like bluemarq that dont realise the really important thing about campaigner.

Its that he is, at heart, a basketballer.

Football is something he plays for a living.

http://www.karmichaelhunt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=17

Good KPFs are rare enough, and valuable enough, in the AFL for it to be worth keeping going with the Folau experiment.

 

[Ando727]

Ando,

Rugby and league are two distinct codes, with two sets of players, two sets of administrators and they dont like each other very much, and have been running their own private little war for a century.

Really, its like thinking the SANFL and the AFL are the same organisation.

I'm aware of the difference between the codes. It was more a slip of the mind really. Usually Aussie Rules supporters don't get too caught up in the distinction.

In terms of the SANFL/AFL comparison, I don't think that's apt because we are talking about the same game, but different administration, whereas with League/Rugby you, quite correctly, were talking about 2 different games.

 

[calyam]

Hunt was and is the substantially superior footy player to Folau. It was evident from about the middle of last year that he had the skills to at least be a decent journeyman player who could honestly compete for a place on the list of most AFL clubs. Folau, on the other hand, has shown no sign that he is able to play at AFL level.

If you are going to throw around phrases such as 'substantially superior' then please provide evidence that shows this. According to what I have seen and confirmed by Champion Data's statistics both players have been equally terrible in their first seasons. Most of the games played by both players in their first seasons were extremely ordinary, but Folau's form in rounds 4, 5 and 7 was the equal to anything Hunt did in his first season.

 

[Bluelegs]

The difference between Hunt and Izzy is that the gold coast took Hunt's strengths from rugby and used them in the AFL. Hunt is a clearance player because he can smash through packs of players and break tackles. I can't understand why Izzy is in the forward line which is a complete polarization from his rugby days

 

[stugots]

fail for having him in there in the first place

fail for lack of sarcasm antenna...

 

[underthestars]

Would hold off until he has a full season and preseason. I'll mark him based on 2013.

 

[00Stinger]

The likes of Walls and Lloyd seem to have an alterior motive for their bagging of Folau, otherwise they'd give him a bit of time. Couldn't believe Lloyd getting stuck into him after his very first game of AFL footy, but I guess as a high profile, high priced recruit he's going to attract this sort of thing. Just seems a bit petty, as he's a bit of an obvious target.

Lloyd is a ********. I'm suprised he didn't compare Folau's first game to his and make a note of what a champion he is

 

[NUFC Tiger]

But that presupposes top athletes can switch from one code to another with the proper amount of training and dedication.

Even an athlete as phenomenonly gifted as Michael Jordan struggled to adjust to minor league baseball. Hunt had at least some experience playing AFL, and that probably gave him some sort of cognitive base for developing footy skills that he's carried since childhood. At Folau's age, it might be too late to train his brain to play AFL at anything above club level. While I don't blame Folau for taking the money - I would have done the same if I were him - it must be extremely frustrating and depressing for a professional athlete to see their talents squandered in such a manner, particularly since their careers are so short.

I agree with most of that Bluemarq, particularly with the idea that Hunt has more of a base to work with when learning the game given he has some experience. Time will tell if the Izzy code jump was good for his career or not.

The example of MJ going from the NBA to MLB is an interesting one. I would say rugby and AFL probably have more in common than the NBA and MLB in terms of the skills and attributes needed to be a success.

I personally won't be writing him off just yet, I think he can still carve out a career in the AFL (hard to imagine someone with his physical attributes and competitive mind set not having a real hard crack to make it work). Maybe I'm wrong but I have a feeling he will come good at some stage if he keeps at it. I certainly hope he succeeds, he seems like quite a likeable bloke from the little I've heard and seen of him.

 

[Mr Ripper]

How does one "go Izzy"?