Time to Start Lauding Achievements other than Premierships

[Violent Stool]

It's a real shame that Geelong may only be remembered as a 'good' team.

They had a history making success rate over 3 seasons, finished on top twice - but only won 1 premiership.

Port Adelaide the same. Minor premiers for 2 years but just the 1 flag.

Essendon in 2000 with their freakish year, again only really remembered as good team because they only won 1 flag.

Collingwood of 01/02 are even mocked for not winning one. They played in 2 successive GFs FFS!!


Why, in AFL do we only really acknowledge flags? Why don't we cheer and applaud, and even acknowledge other great achievements?


There's 16 teams, and only 1 team wins the flag. So really the supporters of 15 other clubs feel their club has failed.
It's a shame, as some of the unbelievable efforts of clubs like Geelong, Port, Essendon, Collingwood and even the Saints this year aren't widelt recognised for their achievements.

The funny thing is, that there's a touch of irony in it all. One club wins the flag every single year.
However few teams have 20 win seasons, or play in successive GFs, or have a 3 year win ratio of about 99.9%!!

Yet we don't seem to care about these things.


Why is it?

 

[Neville Bartos]

Is this the special olympics?

Most players wouldn't even enjoy getting a medal for losing a GF. It's Geelong or Port's or Essendon's fault for not being good enough to win the GF. All the best sports have a final to determine the winner and that's how it should stay

 

[arrowman]

Why is it?

Because the AFL minor round is 8 games short of a full fixture.

(Which may also be an appropriate term to use in relation to most of the AFL management )

If everyone played everyone else twice, then the minor premiership and/or winning lost of games in the minor round might mean something. As it is, it's just a handicapping system for the finals.

There's only one measure of success in the AFL - winning the premiership.

So really the supporters of 15 other clubs feel their club has failed.

No, "failed to win the premiership in that year" is not the same as a generic "failed".

If my club gets to the PF (or even gets to the SF and loses that narrowly) I will not consider this year to be a "failure".

The thing about "cheer and applaud, and even acknowledge other great achievements" is not that we don't acknowledge them - I think we make too much of them, in terms of setting teams up as "underachievers".

You build a very good team, you have several very strong years, in one of them you win a premiership, and then people put you down because you "only won one premiership".

For me, I don't think we need to "acknowledge" the sorts of achievements you describe. But I don't think we need to put teams down for not winning multiple premierships, either.

 

[catters05]

It's a real shame that Geelong may only be remembered as a 'good' team.

They had a history making success rate over 3 seasons, finished on top twice - but only won 1 premiership.

Port Adelaide the same. Minor premiers for 2 years but just the 1 flag.

Essendon in 2000 with their freakish year, again only really remembered as good team because they only won 1 flag.

Collingwood of 01/02 are even mocked for not winning one. They played in 2 successive GFs FFS!!


Why, in AFL do we only really acknowledge flags? Why don't we cheer and applaud, and even acknowledge other great achievements?


There's 16 teams, and only 1 team wins the flag. So really the supporters of 15 other clubs feel their club has failed.
It's a shame, as some of the unbelievable efforts of clubs like Geelong, Port, Essendon, Collingwood and even the Saints this year aren't widelt recognised for their achievements.

The funny thing is, that there's a touch of irony in it all. One club wins the flag every single year.
However few teams have 20 win seasons, or play in successive GFs, or have a 3 year win ratio of about 99.9%!!

Yet we don't seem to care about these things.


Why is it?

Because it is all about that One Match on that One Saturday in September, that is all. Everything else might as well be pre-season.

 

[CrowinPerth]

Maybe we can sort out something along the lines of, if you finish is the top 8 you get one of those square wooden block trophies, and the bottom all get a certificate of participation and a fruit box.

Then again this is the AFL, not primary school

 

[Jef Costello]

How did Unlisted go?

 

[Zeke]

Perhaps the AFL could distribute stickers to the playing list of the 15 losers each year?

 

[CrowinPerth]

Perhaps the AFL could distribute stickers to the playing list of the 15 losers each year?

last one is awesome

 

[Violent Stool]

In horse racing there are 3 place getters.

In the Olympics they award medals for coming 2nd and 3rd. Hell, then even include these in the Official Medal Count!

In the soccer, they have plenty of 'consolation prize' comps throughout the year that clubs get excited about and party hard if they win them.


It's not a case of rewarding teams for simply trying hard, it's just that we fail to acknowledge anything other than a flag in the AFL.


Only a couple of years ago, the pre-season comp was something to be proud of. Now, it' no longer cool to acknowledge winning it!

 

[arrowman]

Perhaps the AFL could distribute stickers to the playing list of the 15 losers each year?

Very good. But do you have one that's suitable for Port, because none of those are.

Anyway - apart from anything else, there's too many awards flying around the AFL as it is - AFL awards, media awards and so one.

Can we make a list? In no particular order of merit:
- Premiership
- Trophy for minor premier (can't remember what it's called)
- NAB / Preseason cup
- Showdown (Crows v Port) and other similar trophies
- Brownlow
- AFLPA MVP
- AFL Coaches Assoc
- Coleman Medal
- ANZAC Day Medal (now x8, one for each game in various forms I think)
- Showdown and other similar medals
- Norm Smith
- Army Medal (or whatever it's called)
- Rising Star
- Mark of The Year
- Goal of The Year
- Club B&F x 16

And then you get down to the media awards, including for example in SA
- Adelaide Advertiser Merv Agars Medal (only available to Port and Crows players, so the 2009 leaderboard actually includes some Port players )
- 5AA's player, rookie, mark and goal of year (one for each club?)
- Multiply above by number of media outlets.

....

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Great teams perform on great occasions.

If Geelong and Essendon couldn't do it more than once - they aren't a great team - fairly simple that

I do think the measure of a great team is different to that of 30 years ago.

I do think the Lions three-peat compares well with Hawthorn of the 80's.

the salary cap and draft will make it nigh on impossible to have a run of success like the hawks did.

 

[ManUtd]

It's just not fair! Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

You say in soccer there are plenty of "consolation prizes"....what nonsense. They are all cups with traditions; there are no consolation prizes in soccer, you either win or your lose. Should Arsenal be crowned with gifts because they have pioneered an art with such youth? No. You earn your accolades by winning things. End of.

No one remembers who came second, and thats the way it should stay.

 

[arrowman]

In horse racing there are 3 place getters.

Which is mostly for the purposes of gambling, not recognition.

In the Olympics they award medals for coming 2nd and 3rd. Hell, then even include these in the Official Medal Count!

Fair point, but I challenge you to name an elite team sport that awards trophies for 2nd or 3rd place in their regular leagues.

In the soccer, they have plenty of 'consolation prize' comps throughout the year that clubs get excited about and party hard if they win them.

I presume you're talking about things like the FA Cup, UEFA Champions League etc? These are not "consolation prizes" and they don't go to the team that came second in the main competion.

It's not a case of rewarding teams for simply trying hard, it's just that we fail to acknowledge anything other than a flag in the AFL.

See my post above. The competition is littered with team trophies - including a trophy for the minor premiership (albeit, as I have pointed out, the minor premiership is meaningless in 16 team, 22 round competion)

Only a couple of years ago, the pre-season comp was something to be proud of. Now, it' no longer cool to acknowledge winning it!

That would be because only 6-8 teams take it seriously every year.

 

[arrowman]

No one remembers who came second, and thats the way it should stay.

That's not strictly true. I can remember who came second in 1998.

Sorry, cheap shot, couldn't resist Your post is very valid

 

[simba_]

port adelaide topped the ladder three years in a row, not two, but yeah

i don't think anything is forgotten by the people who love the game. if the cats come away with one flag out of the last three years they wont be seen as failures and if they are that is media bullshit. they were a ferocious and feared side for an incredibly long time and even saying 'were' is dangerous as who knows what they're capable of this month?

 

[Violent Stool]

Which is mostly for the purposes of gambling, not recognition.
Fair point, but I challenge you to name an elite team sport that awards trophies for 2nd or 3rd place in their regular leagues.
I presume you're talking about things like the FA Cup, UEFA Champions League etc? These are not "consolation prizes" and they don't go to the team that came second in the main competion.
See my post above. The competition is littered with team trophies - including a trophy for the minor premiership (albeit, as I have pointed out, the minor premiership is meaningless in 16 team, 22 round competion)
That would be because only 6-8 teams take it seriously every year.

I'm not referring to trophies and awards. But more the concept of the Aussie Rules culture that 'anything other than a flag is a failure'.

The FA Cup and Champions League etc. are nothing in comparison to the Premiership - however they are taken very seriously and celebrated when won.

I don't think losing should be applauded, but surely it's Ok for lcubs and the footy world to celebrate achievements.

 

[ManUtd]

I'm not referring to trophies and awards. But more the concept of the Aussie Rules culture that 'anything other than a flag is a failure'.

The FA Cup and Champions League etc. are nothing in comparison to the Premiership - however they are taken very seriously and celebrated when won.

I don't think losing should be applauded, but surely it's Ok for lcubs and the footy world to celebrate achievements.

As opposed to the concepts in other sports where failure is rewarded? What other relevant sport takes notice of the things you speak of? Why do we even have competition for first place if we're going to accomodate for mediocrity and "almosts"?

And just to prove you know little about what you're actually arguing, the FA Cup was, at one point, the flagship trophy in England. Ask Abramovich whether he thinks the CL is nothing in comparison to the League? Ask the Reds if they think the League is nothing in comparison to the CL? Ask Arsene whether he thinks any trophy is worthy of his beautiful football?

They just accomodate for more trophies. Someone winning the Carling Cup is different to Geelong only being recognized for one flag, in that the Carling Cup goes to the winner of the trophy, and not to the protagonist of some whimsical tale of achievement that's gone unrecognized.

 

[Violent Stool]

As opposed to the concepts in other sports where failure is rewarded? What other relevant sport takes notice of the things you speak of? Why do we even have competition for first place if we're going to accomodate for mediocrity and "almosts"?

Our pre-season comp was once recognised as a great achievement. Somewhere along the line, we became too 'cool' to celebrate this - because it's not a flag.

What about the Brownlow? Why celebrate one player having a great year, when every player's goal is to win the flag. If they don't play in a flag - then they've failed. Why do we celebrate such an award?

Having said that, it's now becoming uncool to be happy when you win a Brownlow too.

I'm not talking about recognising losing, I'm talking about recognising as sport followers, the great achievements that teams have done. These all entail winning - just not neccessarily winning a flag.

And just to prove you know little about what you're actually arguing, the FA Cup was, at one point, the flagship trophy in England. Ask Abramovich whether he thinks the CL is nothing in comparison to the League? Ask the Reds if they think the League is nothing in comparison to the CL? Ask Arsene whether he thinks any trophy is worthy of his beautiful football?

They just accomodate for more trophies. Someone winning the Carling Cup is different to Geelong only being recognized for one flag, in that the Carling Cup goes to the winner of the trophy, and not to the protagonist of some whimsical tale of achievement that's gone unrecognized.

But that sums it up. In the soccer people are proud of these comps. If these were in our code, we'd turn our nose up at them and bag supporters of the winning clubs if they dared to celebrate them.

You get to go up a grade in the soccer for coming second too.

For some reason, we're too cool to be happy about things.

 

[legend166]

It become not cool to celebrate the pre-season cup because half the teams don't even try.

 

[CrowinPerth]

I think what we are all really asking is, how exactly to you want them recognised?

 

[ManUtd]

But that sums it up. In the soccer people are proud of these comps. If these were in our code, we'd turn our nose up at them and bag supporters of the winning clubs if they dared to celebrate them.

You get to go up a grade in the soccer for coming second too.

For some reason, we're too cool to be happy about things.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that. If AFL had international cups that were fairly competitive, or a domestic cup that pitted over 700 clubs in a knock out format, I'd be very surprised if people didn't take them seriously (especially if they had decades or centuries worth of history).

The Premiership is the only thing taken seriously because it is the sole outlet for serious competition. Pre-season cup? You're avin a laugh no doubt.

 

[Violent Stool]

I think what we are all really asking is, how exactly to you want them recognised?

I don't really care if they're recognised at all. It's more of an observation that our culture for some reason in our National sport, no longer allows us to celebrate anything other than a flag.

We've become just so massively obsessed with it, to the point that nothing else in the sport is even recognised as good any more!

Why do we even go to the game each week?

Why do we get happy about winning in the H&A? Once you can't make the 8, why does anyone bother to show up - including the teams themselves?

 

[St DAC]

Did I sleep through this year's final series?

It's very possible Geelong will win this year's flag; that would be a very creditable 2 from 3 record. They start from prime position, like all of the top 4 teams.

 

[CrowinPerth]

I don't really care if they're recognised at all. It's more of an observation that our culture for some reason in our National sport, no longer allows us to celebrate anything other than a flag.

We've become just so massively obsessed with it, to the point that nothing else in the sport is even recognised as good any more!

Why do we even go to the game each week?

Why do we get happy about winning in the H&A? Once you can't make the 8, why does anyone bother to show up - including the teams themselves?

 

[arrowman]

I'm not referring to trophies and awards.

And yet every example you give is a "trophy or award", something that is awarded for actually winning a competition.

But more the concept of the Aussie Rules culture that 'anything other than a flag is a failure'.

But that happens to be true. In any given season, not every one of the 15 teams that don't win it would (or should) consider their season a "failure" in the absolute sense but there is only one legitimate measure of "success".

The FA Cup and Champions League etc. are nothing in comparison to the Premiership - however they are taken very seriously and celebrated when won.

Again, that is because they are "won" in a competition. They are not awarded, for example, for "having the best winning percentage over the past 3 seasons". In the EPL for example, you could have the best win-loss ratio over 3 seasons and not win a Premiership. There is no trophy for that and that is the real analogy here.

I don't think losing should be applauded, but surely it's Ok for lcubs and the footy world to celebrate achievements.

The sort of achievements you talk about are there to be noted, but not "celebrated". Ask the Port Adelaide Football Club if they "celebrate" their performances in 2001-2003. Ask the Adelaide Football Club if they "celebrate" their "achievement" of making the PF in their 3rd year in the competition - heck, that year there were people talking about a ticker tape parade for the team an idea that thankfully did not get support from anyone, including especially the Club.

Our pre-season comp was once recognised as a great achievement. Somewhere along the line, we became too 'cool' to celebrate this - because it's not a flag.

It's not because we "became to cool" to celebrate it, it's because it genuinely doesn't mean as much as it used to because - as I pointed out before - we know that only abut half the clubs take it seriously.
It does get celebrated, though, and exactly as much as it should be.

You get to go up a grade in the soccer for coming second too.

Yet another example that has no parallel in Aussie Rules (well not at the AFL level, anyway).

I sort of agree with you on one point: That when you get situations like (especially) the Essendon and Geelong examples you refer to, not only do we not "celebrate" them (which is fair enough) but we use them as sticks to beat the club in question up with. Essendon's 1993 flag was "only one flag" and Geelong's 2007 flag may well turn out to be "only one flag". That may mean those clubs failed to leverage several strong seasons into "greatness" but it doesn't make them failures or even under achievers - just "not as successful as they could have been".