Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[Geoffa32]

Right now I wish Myke Cook was still on our list...........an easy player to delist.


Tambling is in the gun, but he has a decent salary. I also still hold hopes he will come good.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

If the investigation turns up nothing more than what we're being accused of, the precedent has been set with the 2001 fine, and loss of second and third round draft picks that Carlton received for their undisclosed payments to Craig Bradley in 1998/1999. If we receive Carlton 2002 like penalties, then it will be an absolute joke.

I doubt they will hit us that hard, however if they do - I believe we will be fine.

1. we have a very young spine (Rutten, Talia, Sloane, Walker and Johnston) with Rutten as out only ageing player down the spine. This will hold us in good stead for the next 4 or 5 years and when Talia moves to full back - it's easier to fill a CHB with a mature age recruit or a rookie listed player.
2. traditionally we develop rookie listed players to fill roles in the team. Bock, Rutten, Mattner, Doughty et el so if we lose a few first round picks, we should have the confidence to develop this player for the rookie list.
3. we are a young side, we have some young unknown players who are ready to step up (Johnston, Jenkins, Crouch, Kerridge, Lyons) so we have some player to fill the void.

saying that, I hope we don't get sanctioned as bad as Carlton were but if we are, it's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean we will fall down the ladder for a number of years. For something like this to happen, I guess now is the right time. Not that I'm endorsing what they have done.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

We've already said we will accept any punishment which is stupid given we dont know what it will be

yep...I don't rate Chapman at all...we just keep lining up to cop pineapples up the ass....no brains on our board at all...

 

[headache1]

I doubt they will hit us that hard, however if they do - I believe we will be fine.

1. we have a very young spine (Rutten, Talia, Sloane, Walker and Johnston) with Rutten as out only ageing player down the spine. This will hold us in good stead for the next 4 or 5 years and when Talia moves to full back - it's easier to fill a CHB with a mature age recruit or a rookie listed player.
2. traditionally we develop rookie listed players to fill roles in the team. Bock, Rutten, Mattner, Doughty et el so if we lose a few first round picks, we should have the confidence to develop this player for the rookie list.
3. we are a young side, we have some young unknown players who are ready to step up (Johnston, Jenkins, Crouch, Kerridge, Lyons) so we have some player to fill the void.

saying that, I hope we don't get sanctioned as bad as Carlton were but if we are, it's not the end of the world and it doesn't mean we will fall down the ladder for a number of years. For something like this to happen, I guess now is the right time. Not that I'm endorsing what they have done.

No, we won't be anywhere near as bad as Carlton. Despite their consistent salary cap cheating, they were already shit before the sanctions were leveled upon them.

yep...I don't rate Chapman at all...we just keep lining up to cop pineapples up the arse....no brains on our board at all...

Generally speaking, people with no brains don't become CEO's of large banks.

 

[boffo]

Interesting point to watch: Will the decision on the length of Tiprat's deregistration be made before or after the PSD?

Vlad the Manipulator's thought bubbles:

- If KT gets picked by GWS I want to make it a very light sentence, great chance to help my favourite new marketing vehicle club. But firstly I have to limit the salary demands he puts in for the PSD (Bwhahaha)

- If KT gets picked by Sydney, well I don't want anyone to be seen to successfully play the system so I'll make it a long long deregistration (Bwhahaha).

What a dilemma for the Master Manipulator.

I'm predicting he'll talk to GWS and if they assure him they'll draft Tiprat it will be a very short deregistration announced before the PSD.

 

[Glenno23]

We've already said we will accept any punishment which is stupid given we dont know what it will be

I think we've already seen how stupid how administrators can be

Why would they stop saying/doing stupid things now?


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[cmndstab]

You've got to laugh at Matt Finnis claiming Tippett has already been punished by not being able to be traded. Realistically he might still get to Sydney whereas we will never get anything for him so we are the ones who have been punished you tool.

I still can't believe we agreed to that clause. Why would we keep a player that intended on hurting us when he left.

It hardly counts as punishment when he's prevented from exercising an illegal deal he and his management knowingly entered into.

I'd like to see that one stand up in court. "Well your honour, my client was already punished by not being able to drive the car he attempted to steal, so I think at this point we should just let him go."

 

[Roo Lives Again]

No, we won't be anywhere near as bad as Carlton. Despite their consistent salary cap cheating, they were already shit before the sanctions were leveled upon them.



Generally speaking, people with no brains don't become CEO's of large banks.

very very true.....so you think saying 'we'll cop whatever punishment is given'...before the punishment is dished out is a smart move? just because you're good at banking doesn't mean you're good at football!!!

 

[Roo Lives Again]

wow everytime I go off the Adelaide board and onto the others it's like I lose intelligence....Swans fans are unbearable....

They talk endlessly about getting Tippett but then when you say something they don't like...e.g. Tippett's going to GWS...they quickly say 'I don't care' ..or 'we don't need him anyway'....uh well why do you keep crapping on about it if you don't give a shit?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

very very true.....so you think saying 'we'll cop whatever punishment is given'...before the punishment is dished out is a smart move? just because you're good at banking doesn't mean you're good at football!!!

Ron Chapman doesn't need to know squat about football - he is nothing but an administrator who is the chairman of the board.

What do you think the football operation manager does? That person is the person who need to know about football, not the chairman.

 

[WrongUn]

We picked him up in the GWS mini draft, my reading on that is that he has already been drafted and was an inactive member of our playing list. Like a Rookie, but we could not upgrade him.

I was trying to work out the same situation we have with O'Meara. I originally believed we just had to make a senior spot available on our list for O'Meara and officially register him via the 1st or 2nd list lodgement deadlines, no picking him again via the ND, and thus does not count towards 1 of the 3 mandatory ND picks.

But Quayles's article seems to say we have to pick him... again!? which isn't a problem, just strange.

 

[juzzo]

I was so 'dissappointed' with Emma....um ah um I don't know....Quayle's interview on 5AA and constantly reading how Adelaide 'MUST' lose draft picks and "MUST' be punished (pushing their agenda so the AFL has no choice) that I've stopped reading THE AGE....

I did however catch Gerald Whateley's comments on the Tippett saga on 'Offsiders' this morning and I trust his judgement. If anyone wants to know the difference between a real journalist and a pretend one then look no further than Whateley. If you asked Whateley a question about any sport...without hesitation he'd tell you exactly what was going on...an impressive guy....no um, ah oh I'm disappointed I was actually asked questions in an interview uh der....

He is adamant that Adelaide will lose draft picks and a massive fine and says that we've definately screwed up. However, more interesting...to me anyway...was that he said:

1. Tippett will be deregistered
2. Tippett will go to GWS who he says will definately take him as long as they can afford him and aren't put off by him nominating the Swans
3. That another team (i.e. Gold Coast) tipped off the AFL about the well known secret deal between Tippett and Adelaide...

I'm guessing that GC thought that if they can get Tippett to the PSD they'd have a good chance of getting him so why not blow the whistle and help cripple another club while they're at it?

Are you serious dude? You praise Whately and bag Emma for saying the exact same thing. Just because someone is more confident in their delivery doesn't affect their worth as a journalist. She's a print journo for gods sake, they are both excellent.

 

[Keyza]

Isn't it great to see the former Carlton administration people coming out of the woodwork and urging the AFL to be consistent in their rulings? So with that in mind, should we expect to get a slap on the wrist until we've been found to have exceeded the salary cap by $1.3m over 2 years?



It would seem that of their many breaches, the above is the most similar to what we're currently being accused of. So, $125k fine and we keep pick 20? Cool, where do we sign?

I dont know where that information came from because its not true. In 2001 Carlton traded picks 14 and 30 and Mark Porter to North for Cory McKernan and picks 23 and 39. Pick 23 was then traded to Geelong for Justin Murphy. Carlton had 2 selections in the 3rd round of the 2001 draft after using its first 2 round picks in the trade period. Pick 39 on Justin Davies and the other on Jarrad Waite (f/s). Carlton were not banned from the 2001 draft. I think i remember it as they were suspended from the pre season draft. It was in 2002 that the penalties were handed down for breaches of payments to Stephen O'Reilly ($115,000) and undisclosed amounts to Silvagni and Williams. The 2001 fine was to do with Bradley and the veterans list rules and the club didnt disclose half of his additional services payments and if i remember it was a fine of $56,000 which was suspended and added to the next fine. Where the amount of exceeding the salary cap by $1.3 million over 2 years is interesting, not getting confused with Melbourne?
What i find staggering is that after what happened to Carlton the AFL warned clubs not to cheat, Carlton were made an example of.
How can clubs be so stupid?

 

[boffo]

....so you think saying 'we'll cop whatever punishment is given'...before the punishment is dished out is a smart move? just because you're good at banking doesn't mean you're good at football!!!

You're right RLA, stupid move. That approach may work in banking where there's some external and internal accountability but the AFL is a law unto itself and not accountable to anyone.

By saying we will accept whatever punishment we cop, we are virtually inviting the out-of-control bully to whack us over the head big time.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

The occasional comparison of our current predicament with Carlton's back in 2002 is pretty laughable. The Blues finished 2002 with the wooden spoon and just 3 wins. Their squad was spud city (Beasy, Campbell, Cranage, Davies, Doering, Eccles, Fletcher, Franchina, Freeborn, Gallagher, Hotton, Hulme, Livingston, Manton, Merrington, O'Keefe, Pickering, Plunkett, Prendergast, Smith, Sporn, Thornton, Wiggins and others). For them, at that time, losing 1st & 2nd round draft picks was a massive punch to the nose, and they didn't recover from it until Brett Ratten took over in 2008. We, fortunately, have a promising squad at our disposal with some seriously gun young players and only a handful of spuds. I can't see us falling back over the next few years. I will still expect us to play finals. Having said this, it will be challenging times for our recruiters if we are sanctioned heavily.

 

[ManInTheArena]

yep...I don't rate Chapman at all...we just keep lining up to cop pineapples up the arse....no brains on our board at all...

It's a board of governance. They govern the AFC not manage it. That said if "making sure we don't upset the AFL" is part of their strategy then they need a clean-out.

 

[ManInTheArena]

just because you're good at banking doesn't mean you're good at football!!!

By that logic let's make Carey Chairman and Fevola Deputy Chairman.

The board need's to have broad variety of skills and should only have one ex-footballer, which it has (Smart).

 

[Superstar swan]

I can't wait for rippers first game against Adelaide at aami... Who ever he plays for. Will
Be an absolute blockbuster

 

[headache1]

I dont know where that information came from because its not true. In 2001 Carlton traded picks 14 and 30 and Mark Porter to North for Cory McKernan and picks 23 and 39. Pick 23 was then traded to Geelong for Justin Murphy. Carlton had 2 selections in the 3rd round of the 2001 draft after using its first 2 round picks in the trade period. Pick 39 on Justin Davies and the other on Jarrad Waite (f/s). Carlton were not banned from the 2001 draft. I think i remember it as they were suspended from the pre season draft. It was in 2002 that the penalties were handed down for breaches of payments to Stephen O'Reilly ($115,000) and undisclosed amounts to Silvagni and Williams. The 2001 fine was to do with Bradley and the veterans list rules and the club didnt disclose half of his additional services payments and if i remember it was a fine of $56,000 which was suspended and added to the next fine. Where the amount of exceeding the salary cap by $1.3 million over 2 years is interesting, not getting confused with Melbourne?
What i find staggering is that after what happened to Carlton the AFL warned clubs not to cheat, Carlton were made an example of.
How can clubs be so stupid?

It's from the Wikipedia page on Salary Caps, so it's entirely possible that it's wrong, which appears to be the case with what you've told us. The monetary figures seem awfully precise to be completely made up though. I guess with that in mind, we should only be restricted from participating in the Pre-Season Draft then?

 

[juzzo]

Neither am I. For starters, unless I misunderstand the system, Doughty leaving doesn't actually count towards a senior list change, right? But two veterans being included does.

Also, I thought nobody knew whether Crouch coming onto the list counted as a mandatory selection yet.

And if the investigation is completed by November 15 (with all indications that it will be) then we can delist him then anyway.

Okay I've done some digging to try and figure this out:
This year crows had 38 on their senior list + Doughty as a veteran + Callinan as a nominated rookie to fill their quota of 40.
New list rules next year enforce a max of 40 on the senior list with as many veterans as you like included within that.
You have lost Doughty, Symes and Knights from your senior list leaving you with 36.
However you will gain Crouch and Graham leaving you with 38.
Now given all teams must use 3 picks in the draft(crows will use 2 + upgrade Callinan) I can only assume the maximum size of the senior list ahead of list lodgement one is 37.
With Tippett unable to be delisted before list lodgement one someone will have to be delisted(can re-draft them).

Hopefully that is correct and makes sense. Happy to be proven wrong if anyone has contrary evidence

 

[headache1]

Hopefully that is correct and makes sense. Happy to be proven wrong if anyone has contrary evidence

Not disagreeing with what you've posted there, but the real unknown seems to be Crouch. Emma Quayle's latest article seems to be a bit contradictory, in that she says we need to find a draft pick for Crouch to add him to our list, but it doesn't count as a selection. If he isn't an automatic upgrade, it would seem that our list size with Tippett still on it and the addition of Graham is 37.

 

[FantasticShirt]

just because you're good at banking doesn't mean you're good at football!!!

You don't really understand the governance arrangements at the AFC do you?

 

[xchadders]

You don't really understand the governance arrangements at the AFC do you?

no one understands the brown paper bag arrangements either....

 

[AndrewJo]

Not disagreeing with what you've posted there, but the real unknown seems to be Crouch. Emma Quayle's latest article seems to be a bit contradictory, in that she says we need to find a draft pick for Crouch to add him to our list, but it doesn't count as a selection. If he isn't an automatic upgrade, it would seem that our list size with Tippett still on it and the addition of Graham is 37.

What about adding to our veterans list? Does that cancel out having to delist a player?

 

[BrissyCrow]

We've already said we will accept any punishment which is stupid given we dont know what it will be

Will be interesting to see what we get. I was reading that Tippett threatens to sue the AFL if he gets delisted

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150388/default.aspx

LEADING Melbourne barrister has warned the AFL is "just asking for court action" if Kurt Tippett is deregistered.

Victorian QC Paul Ehrlich is well known in football circles, appearing for players in high profile tribunal cases, and specialises in trade practices, commercial and sports law.

Investigations continue into Adelaide's alleged draft tampering and salary cap breaches while the forward remains stranded on the Crows list.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150388/default.aspx

I wonder where the AFC would stand if the penalties that we get were too severe and decided to sue the AFL. From memory I believe Collingwood, in the past, threatened to go down this path.

I think we are all concerned that AD and the AFL would like to kick us in the teeth. I am not really sure why they want us to be a weak outfit as they need Sth Aust to be strong for the TV rights. (part of the national deal).

I would love the AFC to challenge the AFL if we got too harshly punished.