Toovey was an embarassment

[Kirk Hinrich #12]

I would have expected better from you VV.

What was horrible about his game? He made 2 clear skill errors out of 15 odd disposals, one of them was a sweepng handpass that didn't quite hit the mark but it was a good option and he didn't have time to kick.

He beat several opponents, made some good tackles and broke the lines with his run out of defence.

I'm not a Toovey fan, but to suggest he was even remotely close to 'horrible' today is to just be stubborn with an opinion you have formed based on previous performances. If you praise the JA debut, and bag Toovey for his display then you didn't watch todays game. JA has more talent in his left testicle, but Toovey was the better contirbutor for Collingwoo today.

spot on

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I know i am a toovey fan but vinnie that a load of bullocks.

With 14 touches and 3 clangers no where near horrible hit most targets one a leading forward on the chest and burnt off players.

I think alot of poeple may be letting there bias against teh kid change the scenery.


I didnt think he was great today but far from horrible/embarassing. I too feel he'll be out for goldsack next week

It's nothing to do with bias. If anything, it's YOUR bias that is seeing you defend him.

Any other player we put in that role would have made less stupid mistakes than Toovey made today - Can you possibly argue with that.

The worst thing is that with Toovey there's no such thing as an "okay" clanger - He has this amazing ability to commit catastrophic clangers. There were a couple of things that won't show up as clangers as well, like overrunning a tackle and such, that he did a few times.

I'm not saying he's useless - I'm saying that we can, and should do much better. Premiership calibre teams tend not to have players like Toovey in them. Tyson Goldsack, Ben Reid, Danny Stanley and Shannon Cox are all players I'd have in the side ahead of Toovey as of next week.

 

[smiddaz123]

Toovey will never be anything more than a gap filler.

I'd prefer we developed players who could potentially be regular senior players and selected Toovey only when our options and very very thin.

I can't see a future for Toovey, Cook or Cox at Collingwood sadly.

 

[Ickirus]

Some people are being overly harsh on Toovey, his game was decent, yet thats all we can really expect from him as he isnt one of those naturally gifted players.

In saying that I still dont think he has any long term future as part of our best 22, being just an ok player in our team is no longer good enough. He played as a fullback as a junior but I'd rather have Anthony and Brown taking down the CHB or FB position in the future.

He will be dropped for Goldsack but to say he was an embarassment is over the top.

 

[Optimax]

It's nothing to do with bias. If anything, it's YOUR bias that is seeing you defend him.

Any other player we put in that role would have made less stupid mistakes than Toovey made today - Can you possibly argue with that.

The worst thing is that with Toovey there's no such thing as an "okay" clanger - He has this amazing ability to commit catastrophic clangers. There were a couple of things that won't show up as clangers as well, like overrunning a tackle and such, that he did a few times.

I'm not saying he's useless - I'm saying that we can, and should do much better. Premiership calibre teams tend not to have players like Toovey in them. Tyson Goldsack, Ben Reid, Danny Stanley and Shannon Cox are all players I'd have in the side ahead of Toovey as of next week.

Why is it then that other people that dont rate toovey are also defending him?

Toovey competes with cox and Goldsack for his spot. Goldsack will have it back next week and i expect toovey to play in front of cox again toovey is a defender cox doesnt defend.

Toovey had 14 touches and 3 clangers one of which he made up for by winning the ball back the other two he then continued to chase.

You entirely refuse to see he do something good ill gladly say he made mistakes but he also hit targets one a leading forward on the chest.


Toovey wasnt great but saying horrible embarassing whatever is talking shit and im not afraid to that your original post in this thread was shit.

Like i think it was thommo 42 said you cant praise anthony and bag toovey after today eitehr praise both or neither anthony got two goals one from a semi free and the other because he ran to the right spot otherwise didnt do alot (and i like jack), where as toovey went full boar for all of his 14 touches

 

[DanGerous]

I would have expected better from you VV.

What was horrible about his game? He made 2 clear skill errors out of 15 odd disposals, one of them was a sweepng handpass that didn't quite hit the mark but it was a good option and he didn't have time to kick.

He beat several opponents, made some good tackles and broke the lines with his run out of defence.

I'm not a Toovey fan, but to suggest he was even remotely close to 'horrible' today is to just be stubborn with an opinion you have formed based on previous performances. If you praise the JA debut, and bag Toovey for his display then you didn't watch todays game. JA has more talent in his left testicle, but Toovey was the better contirbutor for Collingwoo today.

Absolutely correct!

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

You entirely refuse to see he do something good ill gladly say he made mistakes but he also hit targets one a leading forward on the chest.


Toovey wasnt great but saying horrible embarassing whatever is talking shit and im not afraid to that your original post in this thread was shit.

Like i think it was thommo 42 said you cant praise anthony and bag toovey after today eitehr praise both or neither anthony got two goals one froma semi free and the other because eh ran to teh right spot otherwise didnt do alot (and i like jack), where as toovey went full boar for all of his 14 touches

A) I don't refuse to see him do anything good - He did some good things today. Not enough to outweigh the bad, in my opinion, considering that we have BETTER PLAYERS competing for his spot.

B) I specifically said I wouldn't call his game embarrassing, and maybe horrible was too strong a word, but I stand by the fact that we can put better players than Toovey on the field.

C) I haven't said a single word about John Anthony, so why are two people trying to throw that in my face? Although I was happy with his two goals (both earned, whether you want to admit that or not) and the one that he set up with a clever tunnel handball, I noticed that for much of the game he was going at half-pace, and I expected a tougher effort from him. That said, he didn't play a whole lot of the game, and it was his debut at AFL level in a foreign position.

I just don't see how my opinion that Goldsack, Reid, Stanley and Cox are better players than Toovey is unreasonable.

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

??????? We won by 44 points and he had 10+ possesions. Good on 'im, a team is all about depth and he did his job today. Wern't we saying this about Medders and Rhys and Leon not long ago

 

[DanGerous]

Anthony gets congratulated for 4 possessions and Toovey gets called horrible, no, not biased at all.

 

[Optimax]

A) I don't refuse to see him do anything good - He did some good things today. Not enough to outweigh the bad, in my opinion, considering that we have BETTER PLAYERS competing for his spot.

B) I specifically said I wouldn't call his game embarrassing, and maybe horrible was too strong a word, but I stand by the fact that we can put better players than Toovey on the field.

C) I haven't said a single word about John Anthony, so why are two people trying to throw that in my face? Although I was happy with his two goals (both earned, whether you want to admit that or not) and the one that he set up with a clever tunnel handball, I noticed that for much of the game he was going at half-pace, and I expected a tougher effort from him. That said, he didn't play a whole lot of the game, and it was his debut at AFL level in a foreign position.

I just don't see how my opinion that Goldsack, Reid, Stanley and Cox are better players than Toovey is unreasonable.

Firstly i like jack and was calling for him to be honored on the elad most of the day, so im not bagging him heer but he looked half interested by the end and im sure he'll work on it and it was his debut.

Secondly reid is a forward stanley an inside midfielder niether would go back and play on apettifer or brown would they? If we had cox on pettifer or brown i would be having kittens coxy is a good player much mroe skilled that toovey but by god coxy just doesnt defender and thats a defenders major job see bowden he got plenty of the ball but medders his man killed it.

Horrible is way to harsh a term basically its saying he was enbarassing and shit with a differnt word, he may of been poor i would say average to decent but i like him.

But horrible/disgrace embarassment whatever is just crap and he deserved his spot in the tean last week after his vfl performance and didnt disgrace himself with it, did all that was asked tackled chased, ran hard, held his man and yes i agree made a couple of errors

 

[Thommo 42]

A) I don't refuse to see him do anything good - He did some good things today. Not enough to outweigh the bad, in my opinion, considering that we have BETTER PLAYERS competing for his spot.

B) I specifically said I wouldn't call his game embarrassing, and maybe horrible was too strong a word, but I stand by the fact that we can put better players than Toovey on the field.

C) I haven't said a single word about John Anthony, so why are two people trying to throw that in my face? Although I was happy with his two goals (both earned, whether you want to admit that or not) and the one that he set up with a clever tunnel handball, I noticed that for much of the game he was going at half-pace, and I expected a tougher effort from him. That said, he didn't play a whole lot of the game, and it was his debut at AFL level in a foreign position.

I just don't see how my opinion that Goldsack, Reid, Stanley and Cox are better players than Toovey is unreasonable.

I wasn't saying you were praising JA, but he was worse than Toovey and Toovey was apparently 'horrible' today?

No doubt I'd prefer Goldy in the side, and I think Shannon Cox is a better footballer than both Goldsack and Nick Maxwell potential wise, so you won't get any arguments on him either. Hopefully Cox works on his fitness and endeavour and he is silky smooth and would be a nice Milburn style player for us.

My main gripe with all the comments flying around about Toovey is people saying he was 'horrible' or 'embarassing' today. I hope he isn't on the list next year, based on what I have seen in the past. But he was good today, and if he produces similar output each time he comes in as depth to cover injury, I'd be happy for him to be on the list for several years to come. He beat the opponents he was sent to, got a few kicks, hit targets, made tackles, held it up in contested situations and most importantly he broke the lines several times running the pill out of defence.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

II'm saying that we can, and should do much better. Premiership calibre teams tend not to have players like Toovey in them. Tyson Goldsack, Ben Reid, Danny Stanley and Shannon Cox are all players I'd have in the side ahead of Toovey as of next week.

Goldsack I'll admit has done well in defense and is ahead of Toovey in the pecking order but to suggest Stanley and Cox is better than Toovey is silly considering Toovey has played more AFL games as a result of better form at VFL level.

 

[Thommo 42]

Stanley's lat game as a defender was on Robbo in the QB game last year. I like Stanners, but he aint a defender.

 

[Ickirus]

Goldsack I'll admit has done well in defense and is ahead of Toovey in the pecking order but to suggest Stanley and Cox is better than Toovey is silly considering Toovey has played more AFL games as a result of better form at VFL level.

Quite simply, Stanley is the better footballer and has just had lack of opportunity's which is no fault of his own, he is consistently in the best for the 2's and should be played predominately in the middle, not in the back or up forward as MM seems to want to do with him.

Like others I'd prefer Toovey playing in defense then Cox as Cox just isnt accountable 1 v 1, but also I'd prefer Anthony playing in defense over Toovey as they both play tall backs and Anthony has far more potential and skill.

 

[alfio]

I think he had a ok game thanks to the first moment when the umpire decision that went his way and gave him a little more confidence throughout the game. He still made some silly silly errors which will not win you a cup in september.
First quarter ball goes into Richmond forward line edge of 50 and Toovey is behind his man dont know i think maybe was Mitch Morton ball drops short Toovey gets caught behind as player turns him without the ball Toovey panics grabs the shirt umpire didnt call it or didnt see and ended up being ball up. I say he gives free they kick a goal long day for Toovey.
That being said he was ok, but its much easier to have a good game when team wins by 44 points.

 

[Invigoration]

He was horrible today.

He showed, yet again, that he is a good VFL player, but not up to it at AFL level.

He should be sent back to the VFL for the rest of the season and delisted at the end of the year. There is no point keeping him around when he is not going to make it.

Maybe he didn't put in an embarassing effort, but he showed clear as day that he will never be a good AFL player, and considering we have the likes of Stanley and Cox pushing for selection, and Goldsack and Reid returning from injury, I don't see any way that he could crack our side again unless we have mass injuries.

x2, sums it up perfectly.

The kid isn't and won't ever be up to AFL level, simple really.

 

[KikidadidaK]

I wasn't saying you were praising JA, but he was worse than Toovey and Toovey was apparently 'horrible' today?

You cant compare those two players...Toovey is a battler who is in his second year, and i felt did enough today but isnt an afl player...I was happy for JA to just get a few kicks and present which is what he did...the kid has been out of the game for 12 months, and after playing just a couple of games in vfl debuts in the afl...and to complicate things he played in the forward line yet the pies are looking at him as a long term defender...

You can only judge players on whether they reach your expectations...Personally i felt both equalled what i expected, but Toovey wasnt really a positive expectation

 

[Frankie23]

I don't think Tooves is up to AFL level, a great VFl player, but not up to AFL

Put JA into defence and bring in Ben Reid up foward problem solved

another problem though is how to fit Clarke and Goldy in

 

[DanGerous]

x2, sums it up perfectly.

The kid isn't and won't ever be up to AFL level, simple really.

But he wasn't horrible or embarrassing, that's just histrionics.

 

[Optimax]

You cant compare those two players...Toovey is a battler who is in his second year, and i felt did enough today but isnt an afl player...I was happy for JA to just get a few kicks and present which is what he did...the kid has been out of the game for 12 months, and after playing just a couple of games in vfl debuts in the afl...and to complicate things he played in the forward line yet the pies are looking at him as a long term defender...

You can only judge players on whether they reach your expectations...Personally i felt both equalled what i expected, but Toovey wasnt really a positive expectation

But horrible embarassing etc arnt words for his game, avergae decent are.

JA had a decen average game tooa dn we all know that we also know ja has better in him and it'll come but you cant say congrats Ja and FU toovey thats it

 

[Invigoration]

But he wasn't horrible or embarrassing, that's just histrionics.

That's your opinion though?

I wouldn't say he was embarrassing like he was last time against the Tigers, but I definitely thought he was our worst today... Horrible is a harsh word, but he was so far from good it wasn't funny

You go post a thread on the main board about Toovey and his performances to date, focusing on todays. I'm pretty sure I know what sort of response it will get.

There is way to much breast feeding going on around here, the people that are standing up for him are only doing it out of bias. Go see what other supporters think so the realistic collingwood supporters (as per this thread) can enlighten you lost souls

 

[Optimax]

That's your opinion though?

I wouldn't say he was embarrassing like he was last time against the Tigers, but I definitely thought he was our worst today... Horrible is a harsh word, but he was so far from good it wasn't funny

You go post a thread on the main board about Toovey and his performances to date, focusing on todays. I'm pretty sure I know what sort of response it will get.

There is way to much breast feeding going on around here, the people that are standing up for him are only doing it out of bias. Go see what other supporters think so the realistic collingwood supporters (as per this thread) can enlighten you lost souls

yeah and scape goating too.

There were no under averaged players today its just seems people need a scape goat first week fraser second week egan and now toovey real big surprise there

 

[DanGerous]

That's your opinion though?

I wouldn't say he was embarrassing like he was last time against the Tigers, but I definitely thought he was our worst today... Horrible is a harsh word, but he was so far from good it wasn't funny

You go post a thread on the main board about Toovey and his performances to date, focusing on todays. I'm pretty sure I know what sort of response it will get.

There is way to much breast feeding going on around here, the people that are standing up for him are only doing it out of bias. Go see what other supporters think so the realistic collingwood supporters (as per this thread) can enlighten you lost souls

He wasn't our worst, Anthony looked lost after a good start, he was easily our worst, not because he only got 4 disposals but because he just looked out of place and lacked intensity.

 

[KikidadidaK]

but you cant say congrats Ja and FU toovey thats it

nice quote...i do agree though...toovey was passable, but would not have been passable against better competition cos he would have hurt us more...an easy week for mick to rest goldy after his heavy knock and bring in toovey i felt...he's the sort of player that will always do a odd good thing and try his hardest, but his worst could just come at the very worst time...

 

[Optimax]

nice quote...i do agree though...toovey was passable, but would not have been passable against better competition cos he would have hurt us more...an easy week for mick to rest goldy after his heavy knock and bring in toovey i felt...he's the sort of player that will always do a odd good thing and try his hardest, but his worst could just come at the very worst time...

Thank you and i agree toovey will never get in over goldsack but he has received some real rubbish today