Opinion Top 50

[danster168]

Rubbish!
If Curnow dedicated himself to becoming a gut running midfielder, he'd be just like all the rest of them.
Switch this analogy around and Oliver's probably a nothing forward.

Point being, midfielders are a dime-a-dozen and Clayton is no different.
In fact, name me one blatantly obvious asset he possesses which sets him apart from his peers? He rarely kicks goals. Is not an aerial threat. Is not exploding away from a tag and wouldn't even be top 10 for disposal efficiency.

If anything, Petracca is a better all round footballer but does not have the same consistency as what Oliver has had day one.

Yeah, he's won back to back coaches award for the best player in the game. His awards speak for themselves.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Rubbish!
If Curnow dedicated himself to becoming a gut running midfielder, he'd be just like all the rest of them.
Switch this analogy around and Oliver's probably a nothing forward.

Point being, midfielders are a dime-a-dozen and Clayton is no different.
In fact, name me one blatantly obvious asset he possesses which sets him apart from his peers? He rarely kicks goals. Is not an aerial threat. Is not exploding away from a tag and wouldn't even be top 10 for disposal efficiency.

If anything, Petracca is a better all round footballer but does not have the same consistency as what Oliver has had day one.

I do genuinely believe that Charlie could play in the middle as a tall mid (He's actually shorter than Cripps) and get plenty of ball - then work forward off his opponent and create horrid mismatches. Similar to Blicavs.

However, I don't see Charlie as #1 in the competition. Somewhere between #10 and #15.

 

[My Tilly]

Yeah, he's won back to back coaches award for the best player in the game. His awards speak for themselves.

I don't get it myself.
I see an extremely consistent ball magnet who is tough and loves a scrappy affair but if I am to watch the game with my own eyes, I would say Gawn is Melbourne's most valuable & dominant player of the decade. His presence is phenomenal and Oliver is not even close to such level of superiority as a footballer.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I don't get it myself.
I see an extremely consistent ball magnet who is tough and loves a scrappy affair but if I am to watch the game with my own eyes, I would say Gawn is Melbourne's most valuable & dominant player of the decade. His presence is phenomenal and Oliver is not even close to such level of superiority as a footballer.

100%. Also Gawn's dominance makes their mids look better than they actually are. Give Oliver Rhys Stanley and he'd still be good but not as consistent due to inconsistent supply.

 

[Young Redleg]

People who rated Oliver as bog last week have no idea, he was good at best. Gawn and Petracca had so much more impact.

I'd say that Lever and Pickett were better than Petracca.

 

[Young Redleg]

Point being, midfielders are a dime-a-dozen and Clayton is no different.
In fact, name me one blatantly obvious asset he possesses which sets him apart from his peers? He rarely kicks goals. Is not an aerial threat. Is not exploding away from a tag and wouldn't even be top 10 for disposal efficiency.

Not entirely true. Oliver is actually a very good mark for his size. If he didn't have dodgy shoulders he'd be even better.

And he's arguably one of the best tacklers in our side.

 

[danster168]

100%. Also Gawn's dominance makes their mids look better than they actually are. Give Oliver Rhys Stanley and he'd still be good but not as consistent due to inconsistent supply.

So when Gawn missed half the season in 2017, our replacement rucks were Jake Spencer, Jack Watts, Sam Frost, Cam Pederson and Tom Mcdonald. All of which are worse than Stanley. How did Oliver go? He won our BnF...in his 2nd year of football.

 

[My Tilly]

Oliver is actually a very good mark for his size.

He's taken 23 contested grabs in his 150 game career to date.

 

[Tulip]

Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

doesn’t give silver service compared to the real top class tap ruckmen. He’s a good tap ruckman, sure, but his best work comes when the ball is in play. It’s a lazy argument to say that Oliver relies on Max. He’s played with Spencer, Preuss and Jackson as main ruck at various times and been as dominant as ever.

 

[danster168]

He's taken 23 contested grabs in his 150 game career to date.

Why focus on what he can't do?

Like him or not, he is on track to be the greatest contested ball winner in the games history.

Most contested possessions before turning 25
2,127 - CLAYTON OLIVER
1,757 - Chris Judd
1,680 - Ollie Wines
1,668 - Luke Parker
1,583 - Nat Fyfe
1,571 - Patrick Cripps
1,556 - Patrick Dangerfield

 

[My Tilly]

Why focus on what he can't do?

Like him or not, he is on track to be the greatest contested ball winner in the games history.

Most contested possessions before turning 25
2,127 - CLAYTON OLIVER
1,757 - Chris Judd
1,680 - Ollie Wines
1,668 - Luke Parker
1,583 - Nat Fyfe
1,571 - Patrick Cripps
1,556 - Patrick Dangerfield

Greg Williams won more contested ball than Oliver. As too did Hocking, Harvey, Buckley, Voss, I really don't have to go on.

 

[Lingsface]

Greg Williams won more contested ball than Oliver. As too did Hocking, Harvey, Buckley, Voss, I really don't have to go on.

I’m on your side but look at those names whose company you are putting him in.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Geez why do Deez fans feel the need to pump up Oliver so much in any thread he's tangentially related to? When Gawn and Petracca are both arguably better than him, it's a strange hill to die on.

 

[My Tilly]

I’m on your side but look at those names whose company you are putting him in.

Oliver's right up there though if we are talking about contested ball winning ability.
He's doesn't have any of the overall skills the others had.

 

[Tulip]

Oliver is pretty clearly the best modern day pure clearance player. Modern day I guess meaning over the past 15 years or so. Maybe even since Diesel. Others like Bontempelli rank higher in schoolyard picks for good reason - they’re capable of playing forward.

 

[Trav 20]

Greg Williams won more contested ball than Oliver. As too did Hocking, Harvey, Buckley, Voss, I really don't have to go on.

Your claims are incorrect.

Oliver averages 15.66 contested possessions per match. Hocking only averaged 22 disposals for his career.

Voss only averaged 21.

There's no way any of the players you've named averaged more or as many as Oliver. Even Dangerfield is only 13 odd, which is still very elite.

For some reason you don't rate Oliver, which is fine and I completely disagree with your view, but your guesswork is very wide of the mark.

 

[p4p1]

I do genuinely believe that Charlie could play in the middle as a tall mid (He's actually shorter than Cripps) and get plenty of ball - then work forward off his opponent and create horrid mismatches. Similar to Blicavs.

However, I don't see Charlie as #1 in the competition. Somewhere between #10 and #15.

Has there ever been a genuine mid bigger than Cripps? He's not just tall but he's built like a brick shithouse.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Has there ever been a genuine mid bigger than Cripps? He's not just tall but he's built like a brick shithouse.

Goodes?

Edit: Just checked and Goodes was only 191cm. He seemed a lot taller.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Has there ever been a genuine mid bigger than Cripps? He's not just tall but he's built like a brick shithouse.

Fyfe an inch shorter but a kilo heavier at the same age he’s thin out a bit because of injury more recently.

 

[p4p1]

100%. Also Gawn's dominance makes their mids look better than they actually are. Give Oliver Rhys Stanley and he'd still be good but not as consistent due to inconsistent supply.

My pop knew a guy who played junior footy with Polly Farmer, he won a bunch of BnF's etc in the same team in the team with Polly. My pop asked him why Polly went on to be Polly but he never played any high-level footy himself. His reply was something along the lines of 'When Polly is hitting it down your throat at every contest it's pretty easy to win awards.' That is not to take anything away from Oliver who is a quality footballer but having a dominant ruck is pretty handy as a midfielder.
I was going to say that we tagged Oliver in our finals win last year as a point of how important he is but our choice to tag Oliver instead of Petracca has little to no bearing when Petracca was playing on a broken leg.

 

[p4p1]

Fyfe an inch shorter but a kilo heavier at the same age he’s thin out a bit because of injury more recently.

Sure it isn't just a centimeter? On the Bob program with Bob Murphy Fyfe did say he was 195 which is taller than he is listed. I would take his word over anything else personally.
On the eye test alone, which isn't the whole story Cripps always looked a bit thicker than Fyfe.

 

[p4p1]

Goodes?

Edit: Just checked and Goodes was only 191cm. He seemed a lot taller.

I think that's because there was more normal size people still playing footy and midfielders were around 6ft at their tallest for most of his career. It's crazy to think how recently Goodes played but it would look comical for him to play in the ruck now.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Sure it isn't just a centimeter? On the Bob program with Bob Murphy Fyfe did say he was 195 which is taller than he is listed. I would take his word over anything else personally.
On the eye test alone, which isn't the whole story Cripps always looked a bit thicker than Fyfe.

Look at him there
His head looks shrunken compared to his upper body
Cripps might have a bigger chest but as far as similar builds Fyfe is definitely within the comparable tolerance

 

[p4p1]

View attachment 1638009
Look at him there
His head looks shrunken compared to his upper body
Cripps might have a bigger chest but as far as similar builds Fyfe is definitely within the comparable tolerance

Looking at the photo I think maybe cripps is a bit thicker in the middle and doesn't have as broad shoulders which may be why to my eye test he looked a bit bigger than Fyfe.

The other thing I think of when looking at the photos is is jesus would guys like Platton, those smaller but great mids of the past get bullied in the middle. Our midfield is often exposed by its lack of size (on top of the defensive running issues) and they're all built pretty solidly.

 

[keithrichards]

Rubbish!
If Curnow dedicated himself to becoming a gut running midfielder, he'd be just like all the rest of them.
Switch this analogy around and Oliver's probably a nothing forward.

Point being, midfielders are a dime-a-dozen and Clayton is no different.
In fact, name me one blatantly obvious asset he possesses which sets him apart from his peers? He rarely kicks goals. Is not an aerial threat. Is not exploding away from a tag and wouldn't even be top 10 for disposal efficiency.

If anything, Petracca is a better all round footballer but does not have the same consistency as what Oliver has had day one.

Ability to win a contested ball, and get it cleanly to a team mate. Does it better than anyone else, comfortably.

His hands are elite, and what sets him apart from his peers. I think he’s the best mid in the comp based on last few years form, but not to say someone else won’t step up this season.