List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[loki04]

Cripps & McKay... both in past 3 months

Then who?

So they only recently had 2 players have pressure on list cap, maybe Curnow pre injury too.

Pies have had Maynard Treloar Degoey Moore Howe Sidebum Pendles Swan Thomas Reid Stephenson Cox Phillips Adams amoung others all have offers thrown at them over the last decade or so that have had impacts across many years especially with others rolling payments into future years.

 

[No SPIN]

Imagine he’s the player we tipped out though....I reckon the club will be burned to the ground

Barcelona with their financial issues couldn’t fit him in - sound familiar?

 

[loki04]

A team of champions will never beat a champion team.

Tell that to Brisbane lions 01 to 03 team.

Or Geelong 07 team...

You are assuming champions can't play together as a team.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I hope some become bone fide A graders and there is a good chance one or 2 may but most of them look soldiers. Nothing wrong with that.

Swanny was one out of the box but Martin wasn’t. Pick 3 , 21 games 1st season and averaging over 20 disposals and 1/2 a goal a game in that season. He was marked as a superstar early. May have taken a while to get to the very top but he was very good from day one and was expected to be. Darcy would be the last current player we have had through the door near that level (and Stevo if he was still with us) who then delivered. Hopefully Nick D the next.

we don’t have any one with the potential Dusty had entering thegame. Our next Swanny would be great.

I wasn't all that impressed with Dustin at first - bit of a ratbag from my viewpoint although I will grant the talent. It wasn't until he got it through his head that he wasn't the second coming that he blossomed - Richo was another - such a sook.

Can't see a second coming of either of the big D's - especially Dane who is an original and unlikely to be repeated.

But I feel there is a level between game changers and soldiers.

I call them game shapers, these are the players that add that touch of class or bring their mates into the game with courage or/and skill. Not dominant or award leading players but above the soldier level in that they make a difference to the team and are not simple to replace.

Neon Leon springs instantly to mind - pace, great kick and a thorough understanding of the game and always creating opportunities for his team mates.

I am hopeful of a couple of game shapers with our latest crops - and hopefully we have learnt the lesson of recruiting footballers - other than catB - rather than athletes.

 

[stormskye]

Tell that to Brisbane lions 01 to 03 team.

Or Geelong 07 team...

You are assuming champions can't play together as a team.

Brisbane only had that team because they were gifted a much bigger cap. It was not an even playing field

 

[jackcass]

Are you serious? Steele is an absolute lock for best 22 AA hahaha surely you are joking

We’ll know in a few weeks won’t we.

 

[jackcass]

Fair enough. That’s your opinion. My opinion is that he’s probably earned enough money over his career, it’s timed for us to put him on the Ben Reid deals. If we have such a tight salary squeeze, we can’t have the captain asking for 600k.

Seriously? Still among our handful of best players. Likely stayed at the club despite much more attractive offers from elsewhere, so stayed for unders. Why shouldn’t he be asking for $600k (if he’s even asking for that)?

 

[jackcass]

Not that big a call. He's 6th in the coaches award so he's up there and will most likely make it.

Going back to my initial response to other post, we have no elite midfielders as it stands.

He is 6th in the coaches award, but he’s behind Oliver, Bont, Miller, Wines and Walsh. That doesn’t even account for Petracca and Macrae who have both had sensational seasons in top 4 sides and have had to fight for votes with team mates already above Steele.

We’ll know in a few weeks.

 

[LarryKinn]

I call them game shapers, these are the players that add that touch of class or bring their mates into the game with courage or/and skill. Not dominant or award leading players but above the soldier level in that they make a difference to the team and are not simple to replace.

Neon Leon springs instantly to mind - pace, great kick and a thorough understanding of the game and always creating opportunities for his team mates.

I am hopeful of a couple of game shapers with our latest crops - and hopefully we have learnt the lesson of recruiting footballers - other than catB - rather than athletes.

Bianco comes to mind

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

absolutely. You can stuff up with good access to talent. Thanks to Carlton for being the perfect example for 2 decades.

We have some building blocks but most clubs have better than ours. We face a big task to get up to the 8 and it will take planning and development of the talent we get. I get a feeling though that there is an idea we are pretty close. I don’t think we are, need a long haul approach.

Commentators will sing the praises of our kids, build up hopes but are not even accountable a week later. I reckon avoid the outside noise and see what’s really happening. Our young talent is average at best and we need patience and no quick fixes.

I've seen enough of Bianco, McRae, Henry and even Ruscoe to think they will project as well avove average, if they were in another team I'd be thinking they're jyst the type we need for our rebuild.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Bianco comes to mind

I haven't seen one of the latest couple of crops without possibilities.
It will take some time for them to blossom or not.
One of the few advantages of being in a full rebuild is watching the youngsters emerge.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Brisbane only had that team because they were gifted a much bigger cap. It was not an even playing field

not a big believer in that theory myself. If you look at their list at the time they were blessed with a lot of good quality depth players who wouldn’t have cost a bomb, to complment their top liners. Their top liners were committed to the cause and were generally loyal types. they didn’t really use the cap advantage to recruit…..mostly retain. Off the top of my head their only real recruit in that era was Headland whose contribution didn’t make much difference. perhaps it was easier for them to retain the types of Black and Brown and also pad out their depth a bit more to cover injuries…..but I don’t think their cap advantage was the reason they won three flags. They were just good, on field and off.

 

[Prochard123]

We’ll know in a few weeks won’t we.

Not necessary, he's an absolute lock, if you don't even rate him top 8/10 mids in this season when he's probably top 3/top 5 then u clearly don't know football.

 

[Rebuilder]

My opinion is we are getting carried away with the idea the club has a glut of young talent. Our last 2 drafts look promising off an average to poor range of picks but probably lack real star power overall but the 4 drafts before that are a disaster.

It's that part that's caused the hole, some self inflicted because we kept topping up to get over the line instead of going hard to the draft. We need to snag some quality around that 22 to 25 year mark so enough players are hitting their prime at the same time.

 

[jackcass]

Not necessary, he's an absolute lock, if you don't even rate him top 8/10 mids in this season when he's probably top 3/top 5 then u clearly don't know football.

LOL, I do love it when posters fallback position is “you clearly don’t know football” when someone holds a different opinion than theirs. Makes a really strong argument in support of their position.

 

[doppleganger]

Carlton killing us on list management / salaries... so frustrating. If they land a decent coach, heaven help us.

How they can fit Walsh, Weitering, Cripps, Saad, McKay, Williams, Jones, Martin, Curnow, Curnow, Marchbank and all of their B grade midfielders into the cap, with space for Cerra... makes us look like absolute amateurs.

Walsh is a jet, we hope N.Daicos can be our version.
Weitering = Moore
Cripps 26 and avg recently = Adams
Saad 26 Maynard 24 is much better
McKay our big weakness as we don't have a quality young KPF
Williams 26, Crisp 27 and much better
Jones 30, we have Roughead who is 30
Martin is 26 and injured, I'd rather WHE 27
C.Curnow is 24, I'd back in DeGoey who is 25
E. Curnow hahahah a 31 yr old battler, Greenwood or Mayne
Marchbank an injured guy who turning 25 and yet to play 50 AFL games...

We then have Grundy, Pendles, Howe, Sidey, Mihocek, Elliott....v Pittonet, Docherty, Plowman, Newnes, Casboult, Betts so obvious why we have outperformed them recently.

Then we get into mostly unproven youth

Quaynor, J.Daicos, Brownx2, Macrae, Henry, Reef, Lynch, Bianco, Poulter, Kelly etx.

V

SPS, Setterfield, Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, DeKoning, Fisher, Williamson etc.

Plenty of question marks on some of the Carlton youth...and this is from a club that has been hopeless for a decade and we have had a tilt at a flag.

 

[Robroy22]

LOL, I do love it when posters fallback position is “you clearly don’t know football” when someone holds a different opinion than theirs. Makes a really strong argument in support of their position.

Its a dead giveaway eh?

 

[sr36]

He is 6th in the coaches award, but he’s behind Oliver, Bont, Miller, Wines and Walsh. That doesn’t even account for Petracca and Macrae who have both had sensational seasons in top 4 sides and have had to fight for votes with team mates already above Steele.

We’ll know in a few weeks.

They're going to have to put a lot of mids on the flanks to squeeze Steele in. They often do that though. From the bits I've seen, which hasn't been that much, so should be ignoreI'd order those guys:
Miller
Oliver
Petracca
Walsh
Wines
Bont
Macrae

And I'd throw Libba into the mix.

 

[Apex36]

Brisbane only had that team because they were gifted a much bigger cap. It was not an even playing field

The reason they had that team is completely beside the point he was making.

 

[Apex36]

LOL, I do love it when posters fallback position is “you clearly don’t know football” when someone holds a different opinion than theirs. Makes a really strong argument in support of their position.

Especially when it’s coming from the guy who for 2 years has been arguing that Will Brodie is something more than a glorified version of Sier with a higher draft number.

 

[jackcass]

They're going to have to put a lot of mids on the flanks to squeeze Steele in. They often do that though.

They do which I disagree with. Last year they had Danger, Dusty and Bont in the forward line and Steele and Adams on the bench so that's potentially 10 midfielders with the 5 names in the guts.

I think the thing that will count against Steele this year is the Saints performances. Last year they won 10 of 17 H&A games and pushed through to a SF. They haven't been anywhere near as good this year. Could win their remaining 2 games but would need a lot to go their way to make finals given their %.

 

[Bussie]

not a big believer in that theory myself. If you look at their list at the time they were blessed with a lot of good quality depth players who wouldn’t have cost a bomb, to complment their top liners. Their top liners were committed to the cause and were generally loyal types. they didn’t really use the cap advantage to recruit…..mostly retain. Off the top of my head their only real recruit in that era was Headland whose contribution didn’t make much difference. perhaps it was easier for them to retain the types of Black and Brown and also pad out their depth a bit more to cover injuries…..but I don’t think their cap advantage was the reason they won three flags. They were just good, on field and off.

This is what I meant by a champion team. Spot on mate.

 

[Bussie]

Off topic, are we going to stick with our first draftee wearing the number 35??
Unsure how Nick Daicos will feel about it. Henry looks great in the 35 jumper.

 

[Gone Critical]

Only time will tell, but I think calling our young talent average at best is harsh. From what I’ve seen, and their age profiles I will happily say daicos and iq will only get better, macrae, Henry will be guns, Lynch if we keep I can see him being a great player, poulter once filled out could be anything, he’s not average. Bianco will be a workhorse type and I see ruscoe and our new tooves. Add to that reef, who I have big hopes for I think we have some great talent. Daicos next year even better. My biggest concern and where I agree talent wise is KPP. We just don’t have it…. Hopefully we can snag one next draft or somehow lure king.. you build a spine and the rest will come is where Hine seems to fail us.

Average in terms of the group compared to other teams as a group not a comment on the individuals. You need development and an environment to build a team. Still better building blocks make the job easier.

It’s easy to say McCrae and Henry will be guns and Poulter can be anything after 10
games or so but it’s far too early to make such calls. As an example of you compared Essendons best youngsters to ours you wouldn’t have to think long to know which group you would take .

Daicos, IQ , Henry, McRae and Poulter v
Parish, McGrath, Cox, Jones, Perkins

You can do that with many teams. We are no where near having the best youth.

 

[stormskye]

Average in terms of the group compared to other teams as a group not a comment on the individuals. You need development and an environment to build a team. Still better building blocks make the job easier.

It’s easy to say McCrae and Henry will be guns and Poulter can be anything after 10
games or so but it’s far too early to make such calls. As an example of you compared Essendons best youngsters to ours you wouldn’t have to think long to know which group you would take .

Daicos, IQ , Henry, McRae and Poulter v
Parish, McGrath, Cox, Jones, Perkins

You can do that with many teams. We are no where near having the best youth.

From what I’ve seen Henry is a better player than Perkins. Much better mark and has more scoreboard impact . Don’t inflate talent with picks. Cox has been poor most of the year. Far to early to say he will be a star either.