List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Trickster]

Not so sure about the battered body call, and Adams could well have been in AA contention this year without injury, although that falls in to the realms of speculation. No I’m not saying Adams is better than Steele, but I feel like you’re underselling Adams to support your POV. He’s currently our most important mid imo, and we’re significantly poorer at stoppages when he’s not in the side.

Not under-selling Adams at all. He's a great player, won a bnf, AA and best finals player. But context of my comments were in response to he and De Goey being elite mids, and I said De Goey may be if he does this continuously not just for 6-8 games but Adams is not despite his importance to us and his record suggests that. Gave Jack Steele and Oliver as examples but really can put a number of others ahead of him who have been consistent for longer and still at the top of their games. And if we want to be picky, he's ball use is not up to same level as others either. I know the argument too, that its decision making and he chews too much off.

I also fear for his longevity as he's tough and uncompromising but he is beginning to look like a banged up warrior.

 

[doppleganger]

absolutely. You can stuff up with good access to talent. Thanks to Carlton for being the perfect example for 2 decades.

We have some building blocks but most clubs have better than ours. We face a big task to get up to the 8 and it will take planning and development of the talent we get. I get a feeling though that there is an idea we are pretty close. I don’t think we are, need a long haul approach.

Commentators will sing the praises of our kids, build up hopes but are not even accountable a week later. I reckon avoid the outside noise and see what’s really happening. Our young talent is average at best and we need patience and no quick fixes.

Need a mix, scorched earth style rebuilds are no guarantee to get any bigger pay-off...and all you get is close to a decade where you are outside of finals.

Pretty clear that the off-season moves last year....retirements plus shifting out talent, showed our hand that this year was year 1 of next attack at a flag.

If you are more than 4 years out of the finals you have dropped the ball, so you need one eye on the future but also need to not let the stench of losing permeate through the club.

 

[jonmacTrag]

absolutely. You can stuff up with good access to talent. Thanks to Carlton for being the perfect example for 2 decades.

We have some building blocks but most clubs have better than ours. We face a big task to get up to the 8 and it will take planning and development of the talent we get. I get a feeling though that there is an idea we are pretty close. I don’t think we are, need a long haul approach.

Commentators will sing the praises of our kids, build up hopes but are not even accountable a week later. I reckon avoid the outside noise and see what’s really happening. Our young talent is average at best and we need patience and no quick fixes.

Mostly true GC but I'm not consigning our young kids to the 'good soldier' brigade just yet.
Blokes like Swanny and Martin were considered very average for years.

 

[Gone Critical]

Need a mix, scorched earth style rebuilds are no guarantee to get any bigger pay-off...and all you get is close to a decade where you are outside of finals.

Pretty clear that the off-season moves last year....retirements plus shifting out talent, showed our hand that this year was year 1 of next attack at a flag.

If you are more than 4 years out of the finals you have dropped the ball, so you need one eye on the future but also need to not let the stench of losing permeate through the club.

Yeah I am on that boat. Don’t go the path of Carl/ ESS of recent times. My concern is we are doing that, I don’t advocate it but what we have seen in the last 12 months is a club who has lost touch of its fundamentals.

We have kidded ourselves and are probably
kidding ourselves if we think the ship is near righted. That 4 year idea is true but we may have already lost that fight. GW isn’t a saviour, he can’t work miracles. The kids we have picked up in the last 24 months are okay but we are not a few pieces off solving the puzzle. Worst thing we can do now is think that and make some more short term decisions

 

[jonmacTrag]

Not under-selling Adams at all. He's a great player, won a bnf, AA and best finals player. But context of my comments were in response to he and De Goey being elite mids, and I said De Goey may be if he does this continuously not just for 6-8 games but Adams is not despite his importance to us and his record suggests that. Gave Jack Steele and Oliver as examples but really can put a number of others ahead of him who have been consistent for longer and still at the top of their games. And if we want to be picky, he's ball use is not up to same level as others either. I know the argument too, that its decision making and he chews too much off.

I also fear for his longevity as he's tough and uncompromising but he is beginning to look like a banged up warrior.

Tay is certainly no Penders with disposal but with his 'take no prisoners' attitude to being at the bottom of every pack I would say he does more than an average job for us.

As for his longevity you need only look back to another height and sheer talent challenged Collingwood captain to understand that heart and commitment can take you a lot further than most.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Yeah I am on that boat. Don’t go the path of Carl/ ESS of recent times. My concern is we are doing that, I don’t advocate it but what we have seen in the last 12 months is a club who has lost touch of its fundamentals.

We have kidded ourselves and are probably
kidding ourselves if we think the ship is near righted. That 4 year idea is true but we may have already lost that fight. GW isn’t a saviour, he can’t work miracles. The kids we have picked up in the last 24 months are okay but we are not a few pieces off solving the puzzle. Worst thing we can do now is think that and make some more short term decisions

We certainly shouldn't be looking to 'top up with matured talent' as we did in '10 until the list has assumed a more balanced age spread and has shown itself to be nearing talent maturity.

 

[Gone Critical]

Mostly true GC but I'm not consigning our young kids to the 'good soldier' brigade just yet.
Blokes like Swanny and Martin were considered very average for years.

I hope some become bone fide A graders and there is a good chance one or 2 may but most of them look soldiers. Nothing wrong with that.

Swanny was one out of the box but Martin wasn’t. Pick 3 , 21 games 1st season and averaging over 20 disposals and 1/2 a goal a game in that season. He was marked as a superstar early. May have taken a while to get to the very top but he was very good from day one and was expected to be. Darcy would be the last current player we have had through the door near that level (and Stevo if he was still with us) who then delivered. Hopefully Nick D the next.

we don’t have any one with the potential Dusty had entering thegame. Our next Swanny would be great.

 

[stormskye]

absolutely. You can stuff up with good access to talent. Thanks to Carlton for being the perfect example for 2 decades.

We have some building blocks but most clubs have better than ours. We face a big task to get up to the 8 and it will take planning and development of the talent we get. I get a feeling though that there is an idea we are pretty close. I don’t think we are, need a long haul approach.

Commentators will sing the praises of our kids, build up hopes but are not even accountable a week later. I reckon avoid the outside noise and see what’s really happening. Our young talent is average at best and we need patience and no quick fixes.

Only time will tell, but I think calling our young talent average at best is harsh. From what I’ve seen, and their age profiles I will happily say daicos and iq will only get better, macrae, Henry will be guns, Lynch if we keep I can see him being a great player, poulter once filled out could be anything, he’s not average. Bianco will be a workhorse type and I see ruscoe and our new tooves. Add to that reef, who I have big hopes for I think we have some great talent. Daicos next year even better. My biggest concern and where I agree talent wise is KPP. We just don’t have it…. Hopefully we can snag one next draft or somehow lure king.. you build a spine and the rest will come is where Hine seems to fail us.

 

[sr36]

Steele will be AA this year and win his second bnf.

Was there a computer glitch where a post from 2018 was resent - that's when he won his second BnF and was in AA contention.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the Herald Sun is reporting that Lynch HAS NOT signed a new deal.

Excuse me for the gloating, but I feel a bit vindicated about questioning the bona fides of Paige Cardona.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Carlton killing us on list management / salaries... so frustrating. If they land a decent coach, heaven help us.

How they can fit Walsh, Weitering, Cripps, Saad, McKay, Williams, Jones, Martin, Curnow, Curnow, Marchbank and all of their B grade midfielders into the cap, with space for Cerra... makes us look like absolute amateurs.

Really?.....A club who hasn't made finals for a decade, and in that time have had 4 senior coaches, l find it hard to see how Carlton "killing it" in list management, is in anyway helped them.
For a club that has had countless round 1 draft picks, and "big" name players from other clubs, they have been an absolute failure.
They spent approximately another $2M on Williams and Saad last trade period, and they will still finish 13th-15th....yes, they're really killing it! Names on paper, is just that, names...

 

[Jen2310]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the Herald Sun is reporting that Lynch HAS NOT signed a new deal.

Excuse me for the gloating, but I feel a bit vindicated about questioning the bona fides of Paige Cardona.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah I posted the article a page or two.

But yeah seems like she got it wrong.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Yeah I posted the article a page or two.

But yeah seems like she got it wrong.

I find it hard to see that Lynch stays. I can't see him spending another season behind Grundy and Cameron, l can't see Cox surviving beyond this year, plus we have Begg that we will want to come through in the next couple of years.
Lynch had a taste of senior footy this year, and knows he is capable, so for sure he will want to go to a club where he can be the number 1 man.
There was the talk that both Lynch and Sier will be at Hawthorn next year. I could see that a real possibility.

 

[TradeDraft]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the Herald Sun is reporting that Lynch HAS NOT signed a new deal.

Excuse me for the gloating, but I feel a bit vindicated about questioning the bona fides of Paige Cardona.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

She never said he had - She said he WILL re-sign

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

She never said he had - She said he WILL re-sign

Not sure if you've got a little crush on her Dave but she says "a new offer has been tabled which the Lynch camp has reportedly accepted."

Meanwhile, the Herald Sun column says there has been no movement on a deal for Lynch. So we haven't even offered him one.

 

[Trickster]

Was there a computer glitch where a post from 2018 was resent - that's when he won his second BnF and was in AA contention.

Jack Steele

 

[sr36]

Jack Steele

Apologies. That makes more sense.

 

[TradeDraft]

Not sure if you've got a little crush on her Dave but she says "a new offer has been tabled which the Lynch camp has reportedly accepted."

Meanwhile, the Herald Sun column says there has been no movement on a deal for Lynch. So we haven't even offered him one.

So what makes the Hearld Sun right all of a Sudden as well then?

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

So what makes the Hearld Sun right all of a Sudden as well then?

I'd trust their accredited AFL journalists with information about contracts over some random Collingwood Twitter person. What makes Paige right all of a sudden?

 

[TradeDraft]

I'd trust their accredited AFL journalists with information about contracts over some random Collingwood Twitter person. What makes Paige right all of a sudden?

Last few Years when she has come out and said something they have actually Happened.

AFL Juro's Guess a Lot Too

 

[loki04]

Lynch is only unpredictable because he's a 2 game rookie that the opposition haven't bothered putting time into. You make Lynch our regular No 1 ruck and the opposition will 100% work him out pretty quickly.

Grundy was unpredictable when he was first drafted. And we delisted the "predictable" Jolly thinking Grundy could take over the number 1 ruck because of that. And he struggled for years once the opposition put time into him. The fact he was able to breakout in 2017/18 and become a gun ruckman despite being a target for the opposition to nullify is a testament to his star quality. It's easy to have 1 or 2 games as a ruckman where you have dominant games. But only a certain few (Gawn, Grundy) can consistently deliver.

No Grundy was predictable because he was instructed to hit it within the phone box, typically at his own feet and then continued to so even when opposition had him sussed.

This year he has mixed it up more which is good but needs to continue to do so.

Opposition will shark off all rucks but not to the degree Grundy feeds them and also his HO often make it hard for mids to break clean if they do get it.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Last few Years when she has come out and said something they have actually Happened.

AFL Juro's Guess a Lot Too

Can you please point to some examples?

 

[Apex36]

I hope some become bone fide A graders and there is a good chance one or 2 may but most of them look soldiers. Nothing wrong with that.

Swanny was one out of the box but Martin wasn’t. Pick 3 , 21 games 1st season and averaging over 20 disposals and 1/2 a goal a game in that season. He was marked as a superstar early. May have taken a while to get to the very top but he was very good from day one and was expected to be. Darcy would be the last current player we have had through the door near that level (and Stevo if he was still with us) who then delivered. Hopefully Nick D the next.

we don’t have any one with the potential Dusty had entering thegame. Our next Swanny would be great.

It’s truly amazing the selective memory people have about opposition players. Imagine labelling Martin as ‘very ordinary’ early on….

 

[Apex36]

So what makes the Hearld Sun right all of a Sudden as well then?

I’d trust the HS more than Paige, and that’s saying a lot considering the trustworthiness of that paper.

 

[Apex36]

Last few Years when she has come out and said something they have actually Happened.

AFL Juro's Guess a Lot Too

Like what? I mean, she might have got a couple of things right but even a broken clock is right twice a day.