List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[MadMaynard]

Is there any news to suggest that North will bid on Daicos/Darcy with the first pick, is it a guarantee?

I mean, its the first time that they will have ever had the first pick - there is an argument that they should back in the bloke who they know will be on their list.

If thats the case, this makes GWS the first like selection with our pick, again there is an argument that we could persuade them not to bid on Diacos given the gift we have just given them.

This then makes the next live pick Adelaide with pick 3 - there are rumours that Maynard is considering his future, with Adelaise monitoring the situation. If we traded Maynard for pick 3 and still got Daicos after matching a bid at Pick 4 onward - would the Collingwood faithful be happy with that? I sure would.

This obviously relies on a lot of posturing, but if we have blokes that dont want to be wearing the black and white, lets make the most of it.

Say we have Pick 3 and Daicos gets bid on at 2 or 1 and we are on the clock to match, can we trade out that pick 3? I thought they stopped that when Sydney did it for Blakey.

I.e that's why this whole pick 2 thing is somewhat moot were we better to get talent in last year or what to 2022 as we aren't taking a high first rounder into draft night. We may get back in the first round after Daicos gets to us though.

 

[Rebuilder]

Dogs will be desperate for points - they've only got about 1,200 by my calculation and could be on the hook for Pick 1 or 2 with Sam Darcy.

Will come into play with all their list decisions this year. It won't help us get Lipinski (if we are interested) unless we are acquiring more picks ourselves.

Can they take our future pick and on trade it to someone for points this year?

 

[Ugene41]

I really admire the eternal optimism.

I like Paul Licuria's statement about the club .."we're just not as good as we think we are" ... I think that perfectly fits the profile of our current list. Lots of solid role players without much of the high level talent. Players that can turn a match.

I look at other clubs list like Bulldogs, Port Adelaide, even the Bombers who have way more high end young talent on their list than Collingwood. Bulldogs pick up JUH last year and will this year pick up young Darcy to add to their already talented list.

Having role players is important, but more important is the A grade talent to make a difference. None of those players you have highlighted would appear to me on what we have seen so far, capable of delivering at that level.

I hope I'm wrong

Bulldogs, PA, Bombers have spent years at the bottom and are now reaping the rewards of their earlier drafts. When we get back into the finals in a few years time after a period at the bottom we will have more talented youngsters than them as their talented youngsters will now be the 25-27 year olds and they will have salary cap issues trying to keep them all together. They're not the lists we're comparing to.

Our list should be compared to the Eagles, Hawthorn, Richmond etc who have been contenders in the last few years and are now entering a period of rebuild. I'm much more confident of our list bouncing back quicker than these clubs. Why? Because we brought in a large cohort of talented youngsters last year already and still have a strong core of 25-27 year olds whereas all their best players are 29+. Just wait until Geelong inevitably follows the same path.

Even compared to some of the clubs that have been in the bottom 8 for years like GC, St Kilda, Adelaide, NM, Freo & Carlton and have stockpiled early draft pick youngsters, I still like the look of our list as we have a much stronger 25-27 year old core coming into their prime.

 

[peter9789]

Bulldogs, PA, Bombers have spent years at the bottom and are now reaping the rewards of their earlier drafts. When we get back into the finals in a few years time after a period at the bottom we will have more talented youngsters than them as their talented youngsters will now be the 25-27 year olds and they will have salary cap issues trying to keep them all together. They're not the lists we're comparing to.

Our list should be compared to the Eagles, Hawthorn, Richmond etc who have been contenders in the last few years and are now entering a period of rebuild. I'm much more confident of our list bouncing back quicker than these clubs. Why? Because we brought in a large cohort of talented youngsters last year already and still have a strong core of 25-27 year olds whereas all their best players are 29+. Just wait until Geelong inevitably follows the same path.

Even compared to some of the clubs that have been in the bottom 8 for years like GC, St Kilda, Adelaide, NM, Freo & Carlton and have stockpiled early draft pick youngsters, I still like the look of our list as we have a much stronger 25-27 year old core coming into their prime.

Hmm

• Doggies won Premiership in 2016
• Port Adelaide minor Premiers in 2020 and 2nd 2021, prior to this they played finals every year since 2013 except 2015, 2016, and 2018 where there worst finish was 10th (twice) and 9th (once) - they have hardly bottomed out.
• Bombers - different issue with the drugs saga

The difference between Eagles, Hawthorn and Richmond in terms of list talent is they WON 7 Premierships between them so going to the draft wasn't high on the priority list whilst they contended.

We contended for 1 year - 2018 and have fallen off a cliff the depth of the grand canyon

 

[Gone Critical]

So you would rather have two of these players instead of three as will be the outcome. Cerra no star mate.

It wouldnt be two players v three. Swapping out 2020 pick one didnt add two players more to our list it gave us 2 picks a bit earlier than what they would have been, we would have still filled our list in 2020.

People can put a face to McMahon and Poulter and especially as they still have unrealised potential we are very keen on them. If we hadnt moved up to the 30 and 31 pick we would have got 2 others later in the draft. Would have been a chance McMahon may still have been available. What I would envisage is we would not pick Cerra as we couldnt pay him but would get a high end future or two for 2022. We need to tap into high end talent as its what we lack in the young half of our list

Now that we know what we gave away, pick 2, it would have been a no brainer to hold onto it if we knew the future.

 

[Spuddd]

Say we have Pick 3 and Daicos gets bid on at 2 or 1 and we are on the clock to match, can we trade out that pick 3? I thought they stopped that when Sydney did it for Blakey.

I.e that's why this whole pick 2 thing is somewhat moot were we better to get talent in last year or what to 2022 as we aren't taking a high first rounder into draft night. We may get back in the first round after Daicos gets to us though.

We would need to be sure that North and GWS arent going to pick Daicos, which isnt out of the question.

 

[Soups]

No chance North don’t bid on both Daicos and Darcy IMO.

 

[partypie]

Dogs will be desperate for points - they've only got about 1,200 by my calculation and could be on the hook for Pick 1 or 2 with Sam Darcy.

Will come into play with all their list decisions this year. It won't help us get Lipinski (if we are interested) unless we are acquiring more picks ourselves.

Yeah there's definitely a decent player or two exiting at the Doggies this year via trade and/or they're going to have to trade back a future pick or two for one or more picks in this draft. Darcy would have to attract a bid inside the top 3 picks from here, both on merit and strategically to effectively take the Doggies out of the remainder of the first 2.5 rounds of the draft (minimum).

 

[Gone Critical]

Bulldogs, PA, Bombers have spent years at the bottom and are now reaping the rewards of their earlier drafts. When we get back into the finals in a few years time after a period at the bottom we will have more talented youngsters than them as their talented youngsters will now be the 25-27 year olds and they will have salary cap issues trying to keep them all together. They're not the lists we're comparing to.

The bolded is not right

Look at the finishes for the last few years from 2021 to 2015 which is where our list problems arise from. Essendon worse than us but Port and the Dogs have clearly outperformed us over that time in ladder finishes but at the same time have stockpiled youth that easily exceeds ours. Its the crux of our list problems

2015 to 2021
Collingwood 12, 12, 13, 2, 4 , 6, 17
Port Adel 9, 10 , 5, 10, 10, 3, 1
Bulldogs 6, 1, 10, 13, 7, 7, 5
Bombers 15, 18, 7, 11, 8, 13, 8

 

[HFF]

Dogs will be desperate for points - they've only got about 1,200 by my calculation and could be on the hook for Pick 1 or 2 with Sam Darcy.

Will come into play with all their list decisions this year. It won't help us get Lipinski (if we are interested) unless we are acquiring more picks ourselves.

If we wanted Lipinksi....we could almost walk him into the PSD and he probably can even be signed a delisted free agent really by the end of the trade period.

 

[SchuPie]

Hard-running Dog ponders new deal as two Vic rivals circle

Patrick Lipinski has a three-year deal in front of him from the Western Bulldogs but two clubs are still chasing the young midfielder

www.afl.com.au

THE WESTERN Bulldogs have tabled a three-year contract offer to Patrick Lipinski as the young midfielder weighs interest from Carlton and Collingwood.

I don’t know much about him - is he any good / worth trading for or PSD?
Article suggests he’s too good for VFL but is he good enough for AFL
Also questions around leg speed

 

[LuckyLee]

I don’t know much about him - is he any good / worth trading for or PSD?
Article suggests he’s too good for VFL but is he good enough for AFL
Also questions around leg speed

Too good for VFL but perhaps not good enough for AFL and also questions around leg speed.....he sound a perfect fit in our Best 22.

 

[gouki88]

I don’t know much about him - is he any good / worth trading for or PSD?
Article suggests he’s too good for VFL but is he good enough for AFL
Also questions around leg speed

He's had some good patches and some less impressive ones. In 2019 he was really solid as a 21 year-old, but the Bullies midfield depth has become quite fearsome with Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Treloar and more.

 

[Apex36]

If we wanted Lipinksi....we could almost walk him into the PSD and he probably can even be signed a delisted free agent really by the end of the trade period.

The dogs have offered him a contract so he can’t be a DFA.

 

[Kappa]

The dogs have offered him a contract so he can’t be a DFA.

What does he become if he just doesn't accept a dogs contract?

 

[Apex36]

What does he become if he just doesn't accept a dogs contract?

An uncontracted player who’s requested a trade.

 

[TakingThePies]

Pies met with Nick Gieschen prior to lockdown about Patty Lipinski. Get a game now, but who knows again when Dunkley/Treloar comes back in.'

 

[Kappa]

An uncontracted player who’s requested a trade.

And if we can't agree to a trade he becomes a DFA?

 

[LuckyLee]

So what are your best guesses on who will leave our club via trades and delistings?

Personally, I hope Graham Wright will bring a more ruthless edge to things, especially in light of Licuria's on-the-money judgment about us just not being as good as we think we are.

We can't continue Sier/Broomhead type situations where we have blokes on our list for 4-6 years and still don't really know if they're good enough. Key position players can take longer to develop but for the mids and utility/flanker types, we should be cutting them if they haven't made the grade within three years of arriving at the club.

I also really hope we stop recruiting international rookies and cross-over project players from other sports. They virtually never make it, clog up the list for years and, if they stay long enough, eventually contribute to salary cap pressures. Pure AFL footballers only please!

If we're going to quickly rebound from the bottom of the ladder, we need to get much more aggressive and uncompromising in our approach to player recruitment, development and retention.

 

[Kappa]

So what are your best guesses on who will leave our club via trades and delistings?

Personally, I hope Graham Wright will bring a more ruthless edge to things, especially in light of Licuria's on-the-money judgment about us just not being as good as we think we are.

We can't continue Sier/Broomhead type situations where we have blokes on our list for 4-6 years and still don't really know if they're good enough. Key position players can take longer to develop but for the mids and utility/flanker types, we should be cutting them if they haven't made the grade within three years of arriving at the club.

I also really hope we stop recruiting international rookies and cross-over project players from other sports. They virtually never make it, clog up the list for years and, if they stay long enough, eventually contribute to salary cap pressures. Pure AFL footballers only please!

If we're going to quickly rebound from the bottom of the ladder, we need to get much more aggressive and uncompromising in our approach to player recruitment, development and retention.

I'd be shocked if down Moore and Maynard are at the club next year. Both have looked miserable this year.

 

[Rebuilder]

The bolded is not right

Look at the finishes for the last few years from 2021 to 2015 which is where our list problems arise from. Essendon worse than us but Port and the Dogs have clearly outperformed us over that time in ladder finishes but at the same time have stockpiled youth that easily exceeds ours. Its the crux of our list problems

2015 to 2021
Collingwood 12, 12, 13, 2, 4 , 6, 17
Port Adel 9, 10 , 5, 10, 10, 3, 1
Bulldogs 6, 1, 10, 13, 7, 7, 5
Bombers 15, 18, 7, 11, 8, 13, 8

That's because we kept topping up with aging injured plodders for that window instead of letting Hine do the only thing he really does well. We sold the future for a shaky 2 year window that didn't pay off. *resists the urge to rant about cheating WA umpires*

 

[Rebuilder]

I'd be shocked if down Moore and Maynard are at the club next year. Both have looked miserable this year.

Good, they can FO then, we'll get players that are actually going to be in their prime when we hit the next window, list management has ****ed this up so much our best players will all be over 30 when our 20 kids that are 17-21 mature.

 

[Kappa]

That's because we kept topping up with aging injured plodders for that window instead of letting Hine do the only thing he really does well. We sold the future for a shaky 2 year window that didn't pay off. *resists the urge to rant about cheating WA umpires*

What does Hine do well again? Picking Pendlebury 15 years ago?

 

[Apex36]

And if we can't agree to a trade he becomes a DFA?

No, he becomes an uncontracted player who needs to be re-drafted.

 

[Rebuilder]

What does Hine do well again? Picking Pendlebury 15 years ago?

Waa waa, we saw what he can do last year when actually given some picks, and they weren't even good picks, so whoever wants to leave here's the ****ing door, don't let it slap your goldbricking arse on the way out.