List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Silky23]

It had to have impact at some stage. Amplified by covid I imagine though, big money deal gets back ended on the assumption of cap increases years ago, cap goes down due to covid on a back ended deal, buddy still needs his money owed as per AFL rules

Story sound familiar?

Of course amplified by COVID but also amplified by the amount of great young kids and blokes deserving of more money and bigger deals. You extrapolate it all and it’s easy to see why they’re now in strife. Sydney would have a ton of guys who are deserving of deals over 600k

 

[manicmagpie]

Buddy 1.5mill next year

According to this old article his salary should have peaked this year and go down to *only* 1 million next year. Don't think they are ever allowed to alter it either as he moved as a Restricted Free Agent.

Buddy Franklin to profit heavily in later years

Fairfax Media has learnt some details of Franklin's unprecedented contract, which sees him paid at the low end in the first two seasons of 2014 and 2015, when he receives about $700,000 a year, but it rises to around $1.2 million in the third season (2016) and remains at about $1.2 million in both years four (2017) and five (2018).

Franklin's remuneration then rises further in the sixth, seventh and eighth years, before dropping to roughly $1 million in the ninth and final year, by which stage Franklin will be 36.

 

[Jafo]

Not as much of a priority as it is for a twitter handle from the looks of things...

That was Coxy responding to Champion data rating him Elite

 

[partypie]

That was Coxy responding to Champion data rating him Elite

Lol that's what was referring to - solid sense of humour on him and he's leaning on the "taking the piss" skills gained from his citizenship learnings...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

On the weekend, the only two players who led at the footy in our f50 was Elliott and Checkers and it is zero surprise they are our #1 and #2 forwards.

Soooooo, just Elliott then?

 

[Scodog10]

Buddy 1.5mill next year

Pre or post COVID? I actually thought it was $1.8m pre and they were a club that smoothed the hit out. The thing is it’s a one year hit and they don’t really have a list that should be under cap pressure. I mean they were bottom four just last year!

Firstly, Kelly is much better one on one and doesn’t blame others every time he loses a one on one (Madgen) and secondly, I hope you’re joking about the non-desire to pick up a KPF.

Could you just IMAGINE what Checkers could do with a 3rd tall on him and Elliott with a 4th defender? On the weekend, the only two players who led at the footy in our f50 was Elliott and Checkers and it is zero surprise they are our #1 and #2 forwards.

We desperately need a Ben King/McKay type who leads at the ball carrier and brings those forwards you’re talking about into the game rather than Cameron who stands like a bean pole and calls for it on his head every time.

I’m better than Madgen one on one, but I want to replace him with the next Tom Stewart/ Jake Lever/ Nick Haynes/ Jordan Ridley not another FS 26yo who will never be better than bog average.

Get some perspective we just finished 17th! We have that many issues it’s not funny, but quick fix solutions like Weideman are only good for delaying the rise. In the meantime target guys that will be gettable with currency we have which those ground level smalls will be.

I’m on board with a King or Mackay type when we need them, but right now they’re irrelevant to the discussion because they aren’t on the market. We also won’t be in a position to chase them until 2023 when we’ll be looking to improve and Mihocek is 30 or if one of Maynard or JDG leave next year.

Edit: Here are some names to ponder. Papley, McCarthy, Tipungwuti, Moore, McAdam, Ryan and Schultz. All 7 of them averaged more than a goal a game in 2021 and were available for a pick post 50 in one of the past 5 drafts. That’s the sort of player we need to be looking to find this off-season because of the Daicos bid. If you think you can find a KPF for the same value this off-season good luck to you Derek!

 

[Jen2310]

Its started.

 

[stormskye]

Its started.

If Carlton are offering 700+ good luck to them, kid ain’t worth anything near that

 

[Football God]

Its started.

Is it possible during trade week you might have to do “excercise” at the Holden Centre and keep an eye out on who’s touring the facilities?

 

[Jen2310]

Is it possible during trade week you might have to do “excercise” at the Holden Centre and keep an eye out on who’s touring the facilities?

Surely we're out of lockdown by then haha

 

[sr36]

Edit: Here are some names to ponder. Papley, McCarthy, Tipungwuti, Moore, McAdam, Ryan and Schultz. All 7 of them averaged more than a goal a game in 2021 and were available for a pick post 50 in one of the past 5 drafts. That’s the sort of player we need to be looking to find this off-season because of the Daicos bid. If you think you can find a KPF for the same value this off-season good luck to you Derek!

Small forwards have been an issue for years - I think you can go back to the later years of MM, when we made it work with Sidey, Beams and Blair - young developing mids to fill the roles. I think that was our strategy for a fair while later.

But with Ginnivan, McReery, probably Dibb and rumours of Stengle, plus a developing mid likely to be cutting his teeth there. We could be well stocked for youngsters in that role for a while.

 

[Ugene41]

That is a very optimistic view and great if it comes to pass. One thing I am disagreeing with in this thread with most is the marking of our current list. I see too many superlatives that are too early. Even your description is a little over the top. You give us 6 AA talents yet only 3 of them are AA players. Crisp and Admas will be in their 30s if we are ready to look at finals again by say 2024 which is optimistic so they wont be around for much of our nest tilt even if its soon.

2 A grade talents from our 9 debutants and the rest solid contributors would be an unprecedented haul from where we had our picks, would put us back in the game, but its probably too much to expect. 1 A grade talent and 3-4 best 22 would still be outstanding and more realistic. One problem of 2020 is that none of the group from 2015-2018, the ones the club spruiked when we got rid of Treloar and the others did come on. Browns X2, Kelly, Sier, Murphy, Keane and Tohill were able to make a best 22 spot theirs.

I think we have a better senior core than some building clubs but many more established lists have much better cores and already much better youth than us. I prefer most clubs youth to ours and when I look at the squads of Port, Syd, Bris for a start and see how far their kids are ahead of ours it seems a long way back.

Nick D is really the start and then in 22 we should have a good draft pick if we dont trade it or diminish it by going into points debt. A high draft pick gives you a better chance at another A grade talent but it doesnt translate to that. We are in a position where we have to outperform the draft to get back up. I am suspicious of the club still being in damage control and there are still issues fermenting. Pendles spruiking himself this week was a bad sign.

I am not confident that our list is a good one, I suspect things get worse before they get better and my biggest fear is the events of the last 12 months are the same type of thing that sent Carl and Ess into a downward spiral. Thats the biggest concern. I dont see any great short term solutions. I hope that we can do a successful rebuild over the next 5 years, but that will be tough and the next 2-3 seasons are likely bad

Can totally see your point of view and it's a reasonable assessment - just a pessimistic lens. Carlton and Essendon had years of draft penalties that are hard to rebound from. We had 5 top 31 picks last year (before we even started bottoming out) plus McCreery and Ginnivan picked later that look likely. We'll have the best young talent in the country join us this year plus a top end pick next year (hopefully a KPP) to provide the backbone

In terms of AA quality, I picked the players that are likely to reach that level in the next few years. Crisp was robbed this year (Salem over Crisp?) and JDG/Maynard have clearly had stretches of AA quality games - just needs a bit more consistency (of which JDG has done since moving into the midfield). If we're only talking about players that have been AA there's Pendlebury and Sidebottom who I didn't include.

Our list this year compared to last year when we won a final really only lost Treloar and Stephenson in terms of quality and saw the drastic likely irreversible declines of Sidebottom. None of them are necessarily difficult to replace from a list perspective. Henry for Stephenson, Macrae/Bianco for Sidebottom long term and look to target a free agent for Treloar when we're ready (an accumulator is the easiest to find - we can get Matt Crouch this year if we want but there's no immediate need).

Temporary losses of form in Adams and Grundy aren't an issue at their age. Put in the right coach, system and culture in place and it can turn around quick. Longer term we will need to find a replacement for Pendles but Nick D is probably earmarked for that. I also think Pendles still has a number of years left in him as he hasn't really declined that drastically in the midfield and can see him doing a Mundy at 36 still competing for AA.

Whether my "optimistic" view or your "pessimistic" view comes to fruition will ultimately hinge on the coach, system and culture we put in the place. There's nothing fundamentally holding us back with our current list. Other languishing rebuilding clubs just don't have the quality of 25-27 year olds that we have in JDG, Moore, Maynard, Adams, Grundy and Crisp. Keeping that core will be the key and they're primed to take us to challenge again when Crisp/Adams/Grundy are 29 and JDG/Moore/Maynard are 27 with a strong cohort of young talent hitting that 30-50 game mark and reaching consistency.

 

[Apex36]

Pre or post COVID? I actually thought it was $1.8m pre and they were a club that smoothed the hit out. The thing is it’s a one year hit and they don’t really have a list that should be under cap pressure. I mean they were bottom four just last year!



I’m better than Madgen one on one, but I want to replace him with the next Tom Stewart/ Jake Lever/ Nick Haynes/ Jordan Ridley not another FS 26yo who will never be better than bog average.

Get some perspective we just finished 17th! We have that many issues it’s not funny, but quick fix solutions like Weideman are only good for delaying the rise. In the meantime target guys that will be gettable with currency we have which those ground level smalls will be.

I’m on board with a King or Mackay type when we need them, but right now they’re irrelevant to the discussion because they aren’t on the market. We also won’t be in a position to chase them until 2023 when we’ll be looking to improve and Mihocek is 30 or if one of Maynard or JDG leave next year.

Edit: Here are some names to ponder. Papley, McCarthy, Tipungwuti, Moore, McAdam, Ryan and Schultz. All 7 of them averaged more than a goal a game in 2021 and were available for a pick post 50 in one of the past 5 drafts. That’s the sort of player we need to be looking to find this off-season because of the Daicos bid. If you think you can find a KPF for the same value this off-season good luck to you Derek!

I don’t think they were allowed to alter his contract regardless of circumstances. It was the condition that the AFL imposed at the time to prevent clubs from making stupid contract offers to players and then re-negotiate terms later or have an early retirement to avoid paying their full whack.

 

[peter9789]

I think Ollie Henry looks the one most likely to be our potential A grader from the class of 19-20. Still I don't see in him what a 1st season Moore, De Goey, Grundy, Pendles, Thomas, Sidey, Beams showed us. Those kids that early days make you sit up a little bit and go wow even if its not very often. I do like the look of him and he needs to be good to make it as an undersized marking forward. Model himself on Jamie Elliott would be ideal.

So I like him a lot. Ginnavin looks really positive and Macrae solid. Things to like about Poulter, Ruscoe, McCreery and Bianco. Rantall I dont think will be up to it. We were a bottom side with a fair number of injuries which means kids got chances which was great. I am just not in the camp where I see people saying so and so will be a gun, an AA or a 200 gamer. Love it if more than 1 turns into that type

But we are up against 17 other sides and there are a lot of them whose youth and young established players are so far ahead of ours currently I think they will be hard to catch.

Agree with your analysis. We have some good kids, but most clubs kids are better than ours. If you look back over the history of drafts it's rare for more than 2, maybe 3 to go on and have a decent career. That is 100+ games. Out of last years bunch Henry and Poulter seem to me to be the standouts. Maybe we get a 3rd player with McInnes in 2022 coming on from that group - that would be an amzing result. I'm just not sold on McCrae, Ginnivan, Ruscoe, Bianco, McCreery and Rantall - and yet to really sight McMahon.

Additionally we have the likes of Murphy, Kelly, Tohill, Wilson, Keane, and the Brown Bros most of whom wont make it consistently at AFL level. Tyler Brown to me is the standout from that group and hope he gets a good run with injuries going forward.

We need to get a lot right in terms of talent identification and drafting to move up the ladder as we are a long way behind in terms of AFL talent on our list

 

[gouki88]

Its started.

I played school footy with Cerra. Now I've got to wish nothing but ill-will upon him. How fun

 

[Chrispiesssss]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/670255

In the hunt for Lipinski.

 

[iGNITER]

Hard-running Dog ponders new deal as two Vic rivals circle

Patrick Lipinski has a three-year deal in front of him from the Western Bulldogs but two clubs are still chasing the young midfielder

www.afl.com.au

THE WESTERN Bulldogs have tabled a three-year contract offer to Patrick Lipinski

1

Patrick Lipinski

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

10.2

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.8

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

18.3

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

15.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.2

4star

as the young midfielder weighs interest from Carlton and Collingwood.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

If Carlton are offering 700+ good luck to them, kid ain’t worth anything near that

Really? I think he’s a gun. Walsh, Cerra & Cripps. Nice midfield.

 

[ZEV]

I played school footy with Cerra. Now I've got to wish nothing but ill-will upon him. How fun

Glen Waverley or Prahran?

 

[Shannin]

I played school footy with Cerra. Now I've got to wish nothing but ill-will upon him. How fun

This is your chance to get in his ear and change his mind, come to the pies, rookie salary and captain next year

 

[whiskeytown]

Future 3rd for Lipinski?

Dogs don’t like it he can walk to the preseason draft. NM will likely have their eyes in another type of player with their #1 pick

 

[gouki88]

Glen Waverley or Prahran?

Prahran, but a year older than Cerra. He was out most of my year 12 with a knee injury.

This is your chance to get in his ear and change his mind, come to the pies, rookie salary and captain next year

Haha, I haven't spoken to him for years but I'll give it a go

 

[Jen2310]

Dogs playing games. He isn't in their best 22, hasn't played in who knows when and yet offers 3 years? lol

 

[Jelly Bean]

Cerra would fit very nicely into our midfield plans for the next 10 years. And this is probably a good illustration for those that think that we did the right thing by getting Poulter and McMahon for our future first rounder rather than waiting to see where it landed (the argument that even if it landed low, we'd trade it for a future pick, losing another 12 months) - if we had pick 2 now, we'd be able to get Cerra with it AND Daicos. I'd take that for sure, certainly over having McMahon and Poulter.

 

[gouki88]

Dogs playing games. He isn't in their best 22, hasn't played in who knows when and yet offers 3 years? lol

Can't imagine why he'd want to spend the next 3 years in the VFL, besides coming in for injury.