List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[barrackers]

We want Lipinski and 2021 picks/points to use on Nick Daicos. Dogs need another ruckman. Surely there's a fairly easy deal to be struck here, along the lines of Max Lynch and our 2022 third rounder for Lipinksi and Dogs' 2021 third rounder? Seems win-win to me.

Our third is likely to be late 30s early 40s next year while the dogs will be in the mid to late 50s. Don’t know much about Lipinksi, but if the dogs held interest in Lynch I’d ask is Lipinksi worth more to us than Lynch to a contending dogs side needing a different ruck?

A third is probably right for Lynch, but think we could get a lower one elsewhere.

 

[Gone Critical]

You can't say Petty came behind a player he played alongside. Lever and petty played together. Petty did not replace Lever.

We nearly won a flag with a flanker Goldsack who had just recovered from a knee reco in the same season playing full back on the premier big man in the comp.

It's always the same song when a side wins a flag. I have seen far more dominant premier's who truly were a cut above any other side but I don't see Melbourne in thst category.
They played brilliant footy and it all came together in the finals.

For a team you are dismissing as way off the pace we have a remarkable record against the current league powerhouse in Richmond even though we have been devasted by injuries for years.

We have just had one of our least successful seasons and blooded 9 debutants yet only copped one hiding at the end of the season from hell both on and off the field.

If you truly believe we are miles away from being able to compete with Melbourne, the bulldogs , Port etc that's your prerogative, but I don't agree.

A fresh voice, game plan and an injection of three or four players and I think we will move up the ladder more quickly than it appears you do.

Not saying Petty replaced Lever but he is the third wheel in Melbourne’s 3 big backs. A great placed for a young KPB to be

As to Melbourne they are not a great side although they do have a possibility of becoming one. My post was about how far we are behind them. We have some good talent amongst our older players which will diminish in the next few seasons and questionable young talent.

Melbourne have a great balance to their list and if they stay on track the potential to keep improving. We are behind them and serious improvement in the next few seasons is problematic due to the imbalance of our list. My opinion it’s a difficult but not impossible fix.

 

[manicpie]

So would Brodie. A shame they wouldn’t pay the cash required.

Brodie for JUH…. would you do it?

I would help usher Grundy out and JUH in

 

[jatsad]

Agreed. The portfolios checks and balances fell with Walsh who skulked out of the limelight with his pseudo retirement. They had chances to off-load more than James Aish in 2019 with the Bombers into Cox big time. Similarly it made zero sense to carry Varcoe, Reid, Dunn, Scharenberg and Broomhead into 2020.

Just shows what a dumbass organization we, hopefully, WERE.

 

[partypie]

partypie the AFL definitely gets themselves involved in some negotiations to make sure they don't break down. They want to maintain an equalisation policy but don't want to get challenged on restraint of trade laws. If a deal breaks down and there is a legal challenge that threatens that. They involve themselves to avoid that.

I didn't want to get dragged back into this but one last go around the merry-go-round is fine.

Yes the AFL does get involved in some trade negotiations, but is is strictly in an arbitration capacity which is what would be required fromt he governing body to help settle a trade dispute, but that doesn't include the AFL directly influencing the terms of the trade or engaging in any "price setting" for the player involved in any way (indeed clubs and player agents are perfectly capable of doing this themselves). As part of that arbitration process the AFL would of course do their best to try to help the clubs to find a middle ground, but it is up to the clubs to determine what that acceptable middle ground is, not the AFL.

As long as the arbitration process itself is conducted according to industry norms / best practice then that fulfils the AFL's obligations in this space. One of the valid outcomes of any arbitration process is for talks to still end up breaking down with no agreement having been reached, even after all reasonable efforts have been made to do so. Trade negotiations in general break down all the time for all sorts of reasons, and we even have two very recent examples where that has happened. The player(s) in question still managed to get to their club(s) of choice via the PSD and, even though that is not a watertight guarantee in this case with Lipinski, he still has the option to find another club via the PSD.

In the end an OOC player has the right to leave their current club and request to go to a specific club, however that does not guarantee that they will end up at the club of their choice (and we have a well-known precedent for that). Restricting them from leaving their current club when they are OOC, forcing an OOC player to go to another club of their current club's choosing without the player agreeing to do so solely for the benefit of their current club*, or forcing an OOC player to not play football at all would in each case be a restraint of trade. The player being allowed to leave their current club but not necessarily having a choice about where they will be playing next (if a trade cannot be brokered and the player is not willing to entertain a trade to a different club), as per the established and ratified AFL rules around player movement, is not restraint of trade.

Looking specifically at the Lipinski situation, because the context here is important - if the AFL stepped in and forced the 17th club on the ladder to give the the GF runner-up more they are willing to offer (eg. our future 2nd round or perhaps even future 3rd round pick which will be early in in those rounds) in trade for someone who is, on track record, a fringe player (and outside GF runner-up's best 26 at the moment) just to protect the interests of said GF runner-up in securing a highly-rated F/S prospect then it would create a massive shitstorm.

We're all talking about extremes here, but in the end I think that the Doggies will take whatever they can get for Lipinski, rather than risk getting nothing back in for him in return, even if it is just a future 4th round pick which, considering all the factors, would be a reasonable offer for us to put forward imo.

Irrespective of any other responses or tags on this subject this will definitely be my last comment on this issue as it is going around and around in circles.

As I said earlier all we can do now is wait to see how things all shake out, but I'm confident that if we are even semi-competent at the trade table then we will walk away with Lipinski for a more-than-reasonable price, especially given the Doggies look set to shift a number of players out during the trade period and also have a full raft of future draft picks to work with in trade week which means taking whatever we offer for Lipinski isn't going to affect them overly much.

* This is actually the norm for a lot of other sporting competitions around the world, but obviously isn't a thing in the AFL even though a club can nominate a trade partner and than that second club can try to convince the player to agree to the move, which works lot of the time but not always.

 

[sr36]

So would Brodie. A shame they wouldn’t pay the cash required.

Brodie for JUH…. would you do it?

I wouldn't. Big changes at the club could very well see a couple of our blokes who looked stale freshen up - I wouldn't be surprised to see Brodie and Steele regain their mojo next year. It's speculative, but I'd back a star to regain their mojo ahead of backing a kid to become a star.

 

[gouki88]

I wouldn't. Big changes at the club could very well see a couple of our blokes who looked stale freshen up - I wouldn't be surprised to see Brodie and Steele regain their mojo next year. It's speculative, but I'd back a star to regain their mojo ahead of backing a kid to become a star.

I wouldn't either. JUH did not dazzle

 

[Jen2310]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

So would Brodie. A shame they wouldn’t pay the cash required.

Brodie for JUH…. would you do it?

Nope. Not doing any more trades that require subsidies

 

[sr36]

I wouldn't either. JUH did not dazzle

I wouldn't have expected him to as a teenage KPF who didn't play footy the previous year and came from a league that mandates totally different defensive structures to the AFL. We won't begin to know what they've got with him for a couple of years.

 

[manicpie]

I wouldn't. Big changes at the club could very well see a couple of our blokes who looked stale freshen up - I wouldn't be surprised to see Brodie and Steele regain their mojo next year. It's speculative, but I'd back a star to regain their mojo ahead of backing a kid to become a star.

Not one of your better post's. JUH is going to be the next star of the comp. If you think JUH is speculative then that's fairly poor judgement. Let's review in 2 years time.

 

[manicpie]

I wouldn't either. JUH did not dazzle

Either did Grundy. Bit harsh on a first year kid who had his development stunted by covid. Let's review in 2 years time

 

[AmericanMustard]

So would Brodie. A shame they wouldn’t pay the cash required.

Brodie for JUH…. would you do it?

I’d trade Grundy for Krueger if it meant we didn’t have to pay any of his salary

 

[LuckyLee]

Our third is likely to be late 30s early 40s next year while the dogs will be in the mid to late 50s. Don’t know much about Lipinksi, but if the dogs held interest in Lynch I’d ask is Lipinksi worth more to us than Lynch to a contending dogs side needing a different ruck?

A third is probably right for Lynch, but think we could get a lower one elsewhere.

Lipinski is a more proven AFL-level player at this stage than Lynch, so it makes sense to me that a swap of the two players involves us also moving down the order a bit in the associated trading of later-round picks. So our future third for their current third to balance the player swap feels about right to me.

 

[unplugged]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I'm actually shocked the media aren't already going with "stalemate" etc. between the two parties. Only a matter of time!

 

[MyManLynch]

I'm actually shocked the media aren't already going with "stalemate" etc. between the two parties. Only a matter of time!

Dog’s stand firm ! Magpies in corner !
Magpies trade draft dilemma !
Magpies struggle to bring in players & accumulate Daicos points.
Magpies stuck between a rock & a hard place !

 

[Crazy Tails]

I'm actually shocked the media aren't already going with "stalemate" etc. between the two parties. Only a matter of time!

It would be good if we can at least get the Kreuger one sorted quickly (separate from anything involving Lip) as I think we could then use the PSD threat in our favour of getting Lipinski cheaper.

I think if both the Cats and Dogs drag the respective trades out they can play off each other and try and force us into paying overs.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Lipinski is a more proven AFL-level player at this stage than Lynch, so it makes sense to me that a swap of the two players involves us also moving down the order a bit in the associated trading of later-round picks. So our future third for their current third to balance the player swap feels about right to me.

Rucks however are harder to find and should trade at a premium

 

[sr36]

Not one of your better post's. JUH is going to be the next star of the comp. If you think JUH is speculative then that's fairly poor judgement. Let's review in 2 years time.

I hope you're right, as the 17 year old highlights of him are breathtaking. I'd love to see a new star KPF, but of course he's speculative (that doesn't mean I'm putting a line through him) - Over the last two decades, the league has seen about 15 sure thing superstar KPFs who have come through the U18s and who have amounted to very little. I'm certainly not predicting that JUH will go that way, just that he could. Particularly as the underage highlights are mostly of him launching on top of packs - we've seen what happens to KPFs in the AFL who are too reliant on getting a run and jump at the footy. - Once again not suggesting that is JUH - I haven't seen enough to know.

 

[LuckyLee]

Rucks however are harder to find and should trade at a premium

Our previous deal on Witts and likely deal to shift Mason Cox for peanuts don't really support your argument.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Their 21 yo 3rd tall back behind May and Lever. That Petty. Playing his 30th game.

Guess our equivalent would be 21 yo Kelly who has played 2 games.

That is one of the closer comparisons of the list and Petty and Kelly are a mile apart as it stands

Last night made me think how far behind we are. They have a better ruck set up, better back line, much better midfield and forward line and significantly better youth. We are no where near Melbourne

Not sure I agree honestly.

Even more so given we were the only team to beat them convincingly this year.

Even missing Howe and Moore for most of this year we were one of the better defences of the year, I see this only getting stronger with better coaching and some luck with injuries. We also lost Quaynor too for a decent stretch.

Now with Grundy having a pre-season with a ruck coach and again under a better coach in general, I don't' see why he can't get back to the heights of 2018. The midfield will be better for De Goey moving in there basically full time as well as Daicos coming in.

I know it's easy to be down on the list when we're not playing well, but I saw much of the same sentiment in 2017 and I was one of the only ones (actually I might be the only one) who saw our list as better than Richmonds at the time. 2018 at least somewhat validated that opinion.

Henry, Bianco, Daicos, Brown, Quaynor, Reef McInnes, McRae, Kelly, Poulter and McReery should all hopefully improve and show more with proper development and the experience they gained in 2021.

Don't get me wrong, much of the above is dependent on 2 assumptions:

1) Some good luck with injuries

2) The new coaching group is far more competent than the previous one

 

[Scodog10]

Lipinski is a more proven AFL-level player at this stage than Lynch, so it makes sense to me that a swap of the two players involves us also moving down the order a bit in the associated trading of later-round picks. So our future third for their current third to balance the player swap feels about right to me.

A couple of things. The dogs don’t have their 2021 3rd and they’re in the same boat as us needing to find points for Darcy. I expect they’ll trade English out so the real question will be how close the two teams can get before we walk away.

 

[manicpie]

I hope you're right, as the 17 year old highlights of him are breathtaking. I'd love to see a new star KPF, but of course he's speculative (that doesn't mean I'm putting a line through him) - Over the last two decades, the league has seen about 15 sure thing superstar KPFs who have come through the U18s and who have amounted to very little. I'm certainly not predicting that JUH will go that way, just that he could. Particularly as the underage highlights are mostly of him launching on top of packs - we've seen what happens to KPFs in the AFL who are too reliant on getting a run and jump at the footy. - Once again not suggesting that is JUH - I haven't seen enough to know.

I need to stop you there. JUH is the only bloke I have ever seen who doesn't need a run up. He can can jump on your head from a standing start. Regardless of what some idiots on here might tell you, I actually do have a couple of contacts in the U18's recriuiting and development departments and from what they have told me, he is something else. Brace yourself because this kid is the real thing

 

[MyManLynch]

A couple of things. The dogs don’t have their 2021 1st and they’re in the same boat as us needing to find points for Darcy. I expect they’ll trade English out so the real question will be how close the two teams can get before we walk away.

Yes they do…pick 17 (currently).
However they will trade it out.

 

[12kilos]

As much as i think Maguire did a great job at the pies, with some mistakes ie getting Buckley as coach.
We are even now still paying for mistakes we did in the past.
Buckley and Maguires desperation to win a second premieship and the backending of some of the bigger contracts.
My mail is we are going to trade one or two big names out again this trade period due to salary cap issues as the major issue and Nick Daicos secondary issue.
I hope if it does happen we are transparent and honnest to the players involved unlike Treloar and Stephenson, which reduces the likelyhood of getting ripped off like last year.