List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[sr36]

The Geelong team was helped a little by father sons IIRC during that time.

• Matthew Scarlett.
• Hawkins (though I acknowledge he wasn't a regular seniors player initially).
• Gary Ablett.
• Nathan Ablett (acknowledge it wasn't for long, but he played in a winning GF).

THey got lucky with some fabulous players, but Hawkins is the only one of them who would have gone top 5. And Hawkins's only real contribution to their awesome years, was one painfully cruel half of dominance at the very end of their fabulous run.

 

[sr36]

Top 5 is probably too restrictive. What all
flag sides have is a range of top 10 and top 20 picks in the team. These picks are just more likely to land quality and without them it’s near impossible to win a flag. You need more than just high picks to create a flag but you can’t do it without them.

As a reference Geelong 2007 has
Ottens 2
Corey 8
Bartel 8
Selwood 7
Mackie 7
Kelly 17
Ablett f/s
Scarlett f/s
King priority pick

They only had middling draft hands, but they drafted magnificently and got lucky with father Sons. - We also look like getting lucky with father sons - need to draft magnificently now - hopefully last year ends up being a good start.

 

[loki04]

Top 5 is probably too restrictive. What all
flag sides have is a range of top 10 and top 20 picks in the team. These picks are just more likely to land quality and without them it’s near impossible to win a flag. You need more than just high picks to create a flag but you can’t do it without them.

As a reference Geelong 2007 has
Ottens 2
Corey 8
Bartel 8
Selwood 7
Mackie 7
Kelly 17
Ablett f/s
Scarlett f/s
King priority pick

I'm not saying you need only top 5 talents rather you need some in your core group coming through.
Or you need luck where you land a slider who was top 5 talent like selwood or fs or academy.

Geelong had them regardless.

 

[Jen2310]

Western Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains is confident his club and Collingwood can agree on a trade involving Patrick Lipinski

1

Patrick Lipinski

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

10.2

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.8

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

18.3

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

15.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.2

4star

that’ll be “acceptable to both parties”, insisting there’s no bad blood between the two teams less than 12 months after the Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

deal.

Lipinski this week requested a trade to Collingwood after starring at VFL level but struggling to consistently break into the Bulldogs’ best 22 this year.

It means the Bulldogs and Magpies will again meet at the trade table, just over nine months after the two clubs struck a trade that saw Treloar, along with Picks 26, 33 and 42, join the Dogs in exchange for Pick 14 and a future second-round selection. But the two clubs didn’t sort out the full financial details prior to the paperwork being lodged, leading to a messy stand-off and weeks of negotiations that eventually saw Collingwood agree to pay $1.5 million of Treloar’s remaining salary across the next five years.

Speaking on SEN on Wednesday morning, Bains said Lipinski was “clearly a very capable player” and that it was “completely understandable” why he’d requested a trade to the Pies.

Bains said the three-year offer the Dogs put to Lipinski proves they “rate him highly”, but insisted they’d work closely with Collingwood to get a deal done.


“I think a bit has being made of what happened last year,” Bains told SEN.

“I think the team at Collingwood’s pretty different to what it was last year as well – not that that’s better or worse, but I think too much is made on the history of the trade last year. We’ll work with that group.

“I know that Sam (Power) has had some great dealings with Graham Wright In the past and Graham’s very straight and has been around for a long time, so I’m sure the guys will sit down and work through what that looks like. If a deal is to be done, I’m sure it’ll be acceptable to both parties.”

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Bramax]

So we far down the Track with Kreuger Trade with Cats but Dogs going to be Pain over Lipinski

I think it’s just the Dogs posturing. They are well aware that if they ask too much from Collingwood, Lip will go to the PSD and they will receive nothing in return and they need some points for Darcy.

 

[loki04]

THey got lucky with some fabulous players, but Hawkins is the only one of them who would have gone top 5. And Hawkins's only real contribution to their awesome years, was one painfully cruel half of dominance at the very end of their fabulous run.

Outside the fs selections..


Selwood pre draft was unanimously rated top 3. His injury is why he slid not talent.

Ottens a pick 2.

Bartell was around the mark from 5 to 10 went at 8 they Savily or luckily loaded up in one of the all time great draft years in 01.

They had a lot go right.

 

[Babylove]

So we far down the Track with Kreuger Trade with Cats but Dogs going to be Pain over Lipinski

It sounded to me like we haven't really started talking to them yet which makes sense given they're still wrapping up their season this week and the formal request only came through the exit interviews. We've started talking to Geelong who are a week ahead as far as the season wrapping up about Krueger so that one is further advanced over Lipinski.

 

[loki04]

OK, not tanking. Same question, but selecting a team that doesn't maximise our chances of winning.

Ben King is the only top 5 selected KPF in the last 15 years, who you can have any confidence that he'll end up justifying a top 5 selection. Mcdonald and the Adelaide boy may or may not join him. Thus being happy to finish low in order to get a top 5 selection for a KPF seems like fools gold to me.

Why you being selective you keep leaving out the bit where I'm not fussed mid or kpf so long as they are talents worth the pick.

If the KPF is worth it take him, if not go the mid.

Also no not selecting a team that doesn't maximise winning, more dont go out looking for stop gaps to trade in to become "competitive" and play the youth we have like last year.

Any trades i hope they are looking long term as well as now.

Rather then just purely for now.

 

[Jen2310]

It sounded to me like we haven't really started talking to them yet which makes sense given they're still wrapping up their season this week and the formal request only came through the exit interviews. We've started talking to Geelong who are a week ahead as far as the season wrapping up about Krueger so that one is further advanced over Lipinski.

Yeah absolutely makes sense. Their season ended 5 days also, exit interviews were only completed over the last day or two, Their BnF was last night.
Plenty of time to chat. Will ramp up in the coming days.

 

[loki04]

Yes Max looks good too, I was just looking at the idea of finishing in the bottom couple in order to get a gun kpf - he went 6, so you didn't need to finish in the bottom couple to get him.

The Kings, McKay and Naughton are looking good. I like the look of Thilthorpe. No idea about JUH and McDonald yet.

However, at this stage, I'm not convinced that any of them will end up justifying a Pick 1. At this stage, I think the Blues are looking very astute to ahve gone with Walsh ahead of the Kings - when many would have said - go with the KPF. I hope these guys become the guns they may have the potential to be, as I'd love the game to swing back towards KPFs, as there's nothing more exciting than a KPF dominating.

That's because they already have a spine and need to bolster midfield.

We need a lot as we are in full rebuild, people seem to be deluded of this fact.

 

[loki04]

THey got lucky with some fabulous players, but Hawkins is the only one of them who would have gone top 5. And Hawkins's only real contribution to their awesome years, was one painfully cruel half of dominance at the very end of their fabulous run.

They got lucky with many players let's face it.

On top of that they had talents who were rated top 5. Hawkins Selwood and Ottens. They just got them cheaper LUCKILY.


They are an outlier team.

 

[sr36]

They got lucky with many players let's face it.

On top of that they had talents who were rated top 5. Hawkins Selwood and Ottens. They just got them cheaper LUCKILY.


They are an outlier team.

We've got lucky too. As of next year, we'll have 3 blokes on our list rated top 5 in their draft year - Moore, JDG and Daicos - and Grundy who was until the AFL recruiters decided ruckmen were no go. The issue is we drafted ineffectively for a decade and had very few hits at any range.

 

[Everybody Panic]

How did it go from, you need an abundance of top 5 picks to, you need an abundance of players rated top 5 lol? The truth is, you need an abundance of quality, and that goes down to getting your picks right, no matter what number.

 

[Silky23]

They made out like bandits from a great draft in 01. Bartell 8 Kelly 17 Johnson 24 and Ablett jnr FS.

That draft and Hawks 2004 (Roughy priority pick #2, Buddy #5, Lewis #7) probably go down as two of the best draft hauls in history hey. Incredible to think about nailing every single pick to become a future HOF without fail.

 

[mike123]

Martin put themself into the PSD in the last decade?

Jed Lamb and Jason Tutt?

 

[jefffff34]

Podcast of Wright's interview:

Trade Mornings - Collingwood Football GM Graham Wright

Graham Wright joins Nick Dal Santo and Brendon Goddard for a wide-ranging chat on Craig McRae's start at Collingwood, their interest in Nathan Krueger & Pat Lipinski, and the club's salary cap.

player.whooshkaa.com

Interesting that they still don't know the TPP number for 2022. The discussion between Dal Santo and Goddard about the salary cap at the end was interesting as well (never thought I would say that about any discussion between those two people).

I reckon they're both good. They both speak really well.

Had the pleasure of NDS coming to my footy club's training session a few years ago (one of our boys was a North Melbourne physio). He's a really nice guy, speaks well, detests Sam Mitchell.

 

[manicmagpie]

What all flag sides have is a range of top 10 and top 20 picks in the team. These picks are just more likely to land quality and without them it’s near impossible to win a flag.

I certainly agree with that. I guess I'm only really saying that if we have a bit of a rise up the ladder next year instead of finishing bottom 4 that won't prevent us from building a contending side, and I will be happy with the improvement rather than ruing not having a top 5 pick.

 

[sr36]

Outside the fs selections..


Selwood pre draft was unanimously rated top 3. His injury is why he slid not talent.

Ottens a pick 2.

Bartell was around the mark from 5 to 10 went at 8 they Savily or luckily loaded up in one of the all time great draft years in 01.

They had a lot go right.

1999 was a bloody good draft for them too - no idea if that draft was also a strong one generally or just for them.

 

[barrackers]

Western Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains is confident his club and Collingwood can agree on a trade involving Patrick Lipinski that’ll be “acceptable to both parties”, insisting there’s no bad blood between the two teams less than 12 months after the Adam Treloar deal.

Lipinski this week requested a trade to Collingwood after starring at VFL level but struggling to consistently break into the Bulldogs’ best 22 this year.

It means the Bulldogs and Magpies will again meet at the trade table, just over nine months after the two clubs struck a trade that saw Treloar, along with Picks 26, 33 and 42, join the Dogs in exchange for Pick 14 and a future second-round selection. But the two clubs didn’t sort out the full financial details prior to the paperwork being lodged, leading to a messy stand-off and weeks of negotiations that eventually saw Collingwood agree to pay $1.5 million of Treloar’s remaining salary across the next five years.

Speaking on SEN on Wednesday morning, Bains said Lipinski was “clearly a very capable player” and that it was “completely understandable” why he’d requested a trade to the Pies.

Bains said the three-year offer the Dogs put to Lipinski proves they “rate him highly”, but insisted they’d work closely with Collingwood to get a deal done.


“I think a bit has being made of what happened last year,” Bains told SEN.

“I think the team at Collingwood’s pretty different to what it was last year as well – not that that’s better or worse, but I think too much is made on the history of the trade last year. We’ll work with that group.

“I know that Sam (Power) has had some great dealings with Graham Wright In the past and Graham’s very straight and has been around for a long time, so I’m sure the guys will sit down and work through what that looks like. If a deal is to be done, I’m sure it’ll be acceptable to both parties.”

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

Breaking that down and reading between the lines...

No bad blood - why would the dogs have blood bad towards us? They're the ones who buggered us. Discount trade doesn't equal discount wage, but the dogs refused to budge after the deal was done and got both.

Capable player - talking Lipinski up despite hardly playing him the past couple of years.

Different team at Collingwood, better or worse - Unfortunately we can't get away with what we got away with last year.

Power/Wright - however, Power has had good dealings with Wright previously, so hopefully we can still get what we want and the 'pies won't walk Lipinski to the preseason draft.

 

[jefffff34]

“I know that Sam (Power) has had some great dealings with Graham Wright In the past and Graham’s very straight and has been around for a long time, so I’m sure the guys will sit down and work through what that looks like. If a deal is to be done, I’m sure it’ll be acceptable to both parties.”

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

Trade wrap: Bulldogs tall to meet with rivals; how Blues may poach star without a trade

www.foxsports.com.au

I've just had a look at the trade dealings between Power and Wright...if I've read it right that Power has been at the Dogs in his current position for three years.

2018 trade period - Hawthorn traded Taylor Duryea for a future 4th round pick (this pick was then put into a deal with Ryan Burton for Chad Wingard) - so essentially the trade was Duryea and Burton, for Wingard.

2019 draft live pick trade - Hawthorn traded pick 62 (Riley Garcia) for a future 4th round pick (which was passed upon).

What I read from this, is these two blokes will get it done.

 

[10571z]

If we land Lipinski, Daicos and Krueger I’ll be extremely happy. 3 kids to throw straight in and rebuild

 

[Silky23]

Legend rips 'disrespectful' Suns trade rumours

'It's borderline embarrassing'

wwos.nine.com.au

I know this has nothing to do with us but why do we even cop a mention in here .. Collingwood just constantly has to be brought into things it has nothing to do with. Anyone else sick of it?

 

[sr36]

Top 5 is probably too restrictive. What all
flag sides have is a range of top 10 and top 20 picks in the team. These picks are just more likely to land quality and without them it’s near impossible to win a flag. You need more than just high picks to create a flag but you can’t do it without them.

As a reference Geelong 2007 has
Ottens 2
Corey 8
Bartel 8
Selwood 7
Mackie 7
Kelly 17
Ablett f/s
Scarlett f/s
King priority pick

The thing is that pretty much all teams, and not just the premiers have a range of top 10 and top 20 picks in the team, so it's a bit moot, as you could make the same sort of draft number pick list for most of the teams the Cats were much better than - some teams you could have made a much more impressive numerical list.

For me it's about quality drafting and development at all pick ranges - and luck.

 

[Quicky]

Yes Max looks good too, I was just looking at the idea of finishing in the bottom couple in order to get a gun kpf - he went 6, so you didn't need to finish in the bottom couple to get him.

The Kings, McKay and Naughton are looking good. I like the look of Thilthorpe. No idea about JUH and McDonald yet.

However, at this stage, I'm not convinced that any of them will end up justifying a Pick 1. At this stage, I think the Blues are looking very astute to ahve gone with Walsh ahead of the Kings - when many would have said - go with the KPF. I hope these guys become the guns they may have the potential to be, as I'd love the game to swing back towards KPFs, as there's nothing more exciting than a KPF dominating.

It's astute when you already have McKay and Weitering on the list. We aren't in that position. We also aren't likely to have pick 1 so not sure it's relevance? I might be missing some context there though. I think we're more likely to have pick 5-12ish next year.

 

[MyManLynch]

Legend rips 'disrespectful' Suns trade rumours

'It's borderline embarrassing'

wwos.nine.com.au

I know this has nothing to do with us but why do we even cop a mention in here .. Collingwood just constantly has to be brought into things it has nothing to do with. Anyone else sick of it?

Par for the course.
I’m surprised we weren’t linked to the Submarine deal somehow.