Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[go you pups]

Surely I can't be the only one on this board who isn't sold on Josh Walker. Don't rate him at all.

He'll be a solid B grader if he is given the chance to develop and not rot in the VFL.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

He'll be a solid B grader if he is given the chance to develop and not rot in the VFL.

I don't even think he's a solid B-Grader.

One good game and people are suddenly talking about him. Too slow and can't see any potential upside and can hardly get a game for Geelong.

Saying that we should trade very, very talented players like Hrovat or Hunter, with more upside is absolutely ludicrous. I wouldn't trade either of them for two Josh Walkers.

I'd thought we'd moved past the "Jesse White syndrome" where we all jumped up and down like little girls when a fringe key forward at another club pieced together a good game or two?

 

[TBOW]

He'll be a solid B grader if he is given the chance to develop and not rot in the VFL.

Yeah, I like the look of him as a solid, cheap role player but wouldn't chase him with any sort of coin. Bit of a Liegh Brown type.

 

[go you pups]

I don't even think he's a solid B-Grader.

One good game and people are suddenly talking about him. Too slow and can't see any potential upside and can hardly get a game for Geelong.

Saying that we should trade very, very talented players like Hrovat or Hunter, with more upside is absolutely ludicrous. I wouldn't trade either of them for two Josh Walkers.

I'd thought we'd moved past the "Jesse White syndrome" where we all jumped up and down like little girls when a fringe key forward at another club pieced together a good game or two?

I wouldn't trade a player for him, just picks.

He'd offer more than what a Redpath/Cordy would.

Have a look at Geelongs KPP/Ruck stocks by the way. They have about 6-7 more than what we do, but we'd have heaps more smalls than them.

Hawkins, Taylor, Rivers, Lonergan, Clark, McIntosh, Stanley, Blicavs, Kolodjashnij, Kersten, Vardy, Simpson, Walker and they have a couple of rookies in Lucey and Read. (Off the top of my head)

We have Boyd, Roughead, Talia, Roberts, Redpath, Hamling, Minson, Campbell and Cordy, we are 2-3 KPPs short. Morris and Stringer while are key players are more in the utility bracket.

 

[go you pups]

Yeah, I like the look of him as a solid, cheap role player but wouldn't chase him with any sort of coin. Bit of a Liegh Brown type.

Exactly, but he'd be a great foil for Boyd and Crameri/Stringer.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I wouldn't trade a player for him, just picks.

He'd offer more than what a Redpath/Cordy would.

Have a look at Geelongs KPP/Ruck stocks by the way. They have about 6-7 more than what we do, but we'd have heaps more smalls than them.

Hawkins, Taylor, Rivers, Lonergan, Clark, McIntosh, Stanley, Blicavs, Kolodjashnij, Kersten, Vardy, Simpson, Walker and they have a couple of rookies in Lucey and Read. (Off the top of my head)

We have Boyd, Roughead, Talia, Roberts, Redpath, Hamling, Minson, Campbell and Cordy, we are 2-3 KPPs short. Morris and Stringer while are key players are more in the utility bracket.

I wouldn't bring anybody on our list who I couldn't see in our best-22, and hopefully, premiership side in four years time in 2019.

I can see a third round pick doing that (Daniel, Dale, and Honeychurch are our last three third round picks. My point exactly). I can't see Josh Walker being that. At best he'll be a fringe forward, marginally better than whoever we already have on our list, but it still won't have solved the problem of the 2nd forward, because he just won't be up to it. At worst he'll be delisted in three years and us looking like fools because we traded for him. Either way, we lose the opportunity to bring a third round pick.

 

[doggies ftw]

Dude on the D&T board just said he's sure Carlisle will either be at the bombers or the dogs next year. **** me I'm excited.

Still honestly want him at CHF but ah well wouldn't be complaining has anyone been watching him this year, hows he going and wheres he playing?

Also if we are getting him to play CHB well we must move Roughy forward and see how he goes asap because if we bring in Carlisle we can't play Rough and Talia alongside him in the backline IMO and if Roughy can't make the transition to ruck/forward that we hope he could well were in a pretty shit situation still looking for a forward with good defenders being held out of the team.

Just say we bring in Roberts and Hamling very soon, Roughy moves forward and starts playing really good footy in the 2nd forward/ruck role and then next year we bring in a fit Libba and Clay and Carlisle, well **** I'm talking a premiership push in 2016. Carlisle, Talia, and Moz (getting old)/Hamling/Roberts/Cordy down back. Rough, Boyd, Stringer, Crameri up forward with Libba, Macrae, Bonts, Wally, Clay etc through the middle. Jesus.

Getting ahead of myself? Maybe slightly...

 

[TBOW]

I wouldn't bring anybody on our list who I couldn't see in our best-22, and hopefully, premiership side in four years time in 2019.

I can see a third round pick doing that (Daniel, Dale, and Honeychurch are our last three third round picks. My point exactly). I can't see Josh Walker being that. At best he'll be a fringe forward, marginally better than whoever we already have on our list, but it still won't have solved the problem of the 2nd forward, because he just won't be up to it. At worst he'll be delisted in three years and us looking like fools because we traded for him. Either way, we lose the opportunity to bring a third round pick.

I agree with this sentiment. He is the kind of guy that you bring in if you need him, not bring in to build around.

The only problem is you run the risk of finding out you need a Walker type when there aren't any to be had.

 

[Dogs Rule]

We can smell what they're cooking

To be honest, why would any top-liner or potential elite GWS player want to go to Carlton, aside from the go-home factor?

Carlton have finally accepted what people have know for some time regarding the state of their list. Unlike our list, Carlton's is full of young players of a similar age group to the GWS players mentioned who're levels below. Only Cripps and Menzel spring to mind as being at a level to match at present or in the future. The rest of the re-build base of kids are garbage.

Why would the GWS players agree to be traded to Carlton when they're realistically 3-4 years from challenging for a final 8 spot? Every other Victorian club would have an advantage in appeal and that's probably the straw that breaks any 'major' deal.

Whatever the Blues are/were cooking, it's burnt.

 

[womble54]

I feel like we are at great risk of becoming a destination club.....

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I agree with this sentiment. He is the kind of guy that you bring in if you need him, not bring in to build around.

The only problem is you run the risk of finding out you need a Walker type when there aren't any to be had.

Bring him in if we still have the same second forward problem in three years time and we're a top 4 candidate. Don't bring him in when we can utilise a third round pick instead and get a player who's more likely to be best 22 in four years time.

 

[Zgope1]

said it before but if Carlisle plays for us next year, Roughy becomes a ruck support/kpp utility. I rate him as ruck support, not so much as a forward but he'll be fine floating around the ground helping where it's needed. When he's forward he at least won't be a liability. With some of this talk, i suggest everyone listen to Roughy about the prospect of his role in the future on his latest SEN interview. There is a hint that the club will look at key backs to free him up as the ruck helper.

What's also worth noting is that Lachie Henderson is a viable second option this trade period, although i like him forward. If we're offering money it's to these two and it's likely that one of them comes off.

Next year we're looking good for a very tall and very versatile outfit. Libya and Wallis being grunty mids, Macrae and Bonts delivering. Pace across the ground (especially if Grant lifts).

We should play finals next year I've thought that since 2013

 

[go you pups]

I wouldn't bring anybody on our list who I couldn't see in our best-22, and hopefully, premiership side in four years time in 2019.

I can see a third round pick doing that (Daniel, Dale, and Honeychurch are our last three third round picks. My point exactly). I can't see Josh Walker being that. At best he'll be a fringe forward, marginally better than whoever we already have on our list, but it still won't have solved the problem of the 2nd forward, because he just won't be up to it. At worst he'll be delisted in three years and us looking like fools because we traded for him. Either way, we lose the opportunity to bring a third round pick.

The problem is the club has refused to draft KPPs since 2011 and load up on best available/big bodied mids and smalls instead the last three drafts. We have taken on Crameri who is an undersizer (similar dimensions to Scott Welsh), Boyd and Hamling in that time. While Austin was delisted.

Hypothetically if the only KPPs we take on are draftees in this years and next years drafts then they are 4-5 years behind where Hamling, Talia, Roberts, Redpath etc are currently are at and it's unlikely all 4 will make it. The new draftees won't be any good at AFL level until 2018 at a minimum and maybe not til 2020/21 when you'd think we would be challenging along with GWS, GC, Melbourne, St Kilda, Brisbane etc.

Our midfielders are coming along great guns, we need to trade in 2 competent KPPs and draft/rookie another 2-3 in the next 2 years as Redpath and Cordy are unlikely to make it and we are likely to cop a couple of injuries to our talls eventually so competent back up is needed. If Boyd goes down without cover then we have to go back to Crameri/Stringer as number one and two and opposition defenders will have a day out going third man up all the time when we get it inside 50.

KPPs coming in to the club through both trade and draft are of vital importance to our list build at the moment considering who was traded out/delisted through that three year period.

Walker could well be a Josh Jenkins if given the chance, most successful teams have a 30/70 or 20/80 ruck forward in their set up say Tippett, Hale, Jenkins, Zac Clarke (more of a ruck but does is role), Lycett, Mitch Clark, Brown. Ryder will be for Port when Lobbe comes back. All of these players work in tandem with a number one ruck and a number one key forward. We have tried this with Cordy and Redpath and doesn't look like working as Cordy is a ruckman and Redpath a standout VFL key forward.

I just think we value smalls too much than talls and due to all of Claytons draft blunders 10-15 years ago with Wiggins, Walsh, Wight, Wells, West, Grant then the trade ins like Bandy, Rawlings, McDougall etc we have given up on developing key forwards due to the poor track record there. We have to buck the trend and not neglect this as it could cost us a flag and more preliminary final losses later down the track if it's not rectified in the short term.

FWIW Fuller was the 3rd rounder not Honeychurch who was a 4th

 

[threenewpadlocks]

said it before but if Carlisle plays for us next year, Roughy becomes a ruck support/kpp utility. I rate him as ruck support, not so much as a forward but he'll be fine floating around the ground helping where it's needed. When he's forward he at least won't be a liability. With some of this talk, i suggest everyone listen to Roughy about the prospect of his role in the future on his latest SEN interview. There is a hint that the club will look at key backs to free him up as the ruck helper.

What's also worth noting is that Lachie Henderson is a viable second option this trade period, although i like him forward. If we're offering money it's to these two and it's likely that one of them comes off.

Next year we're looking good for a very tall and very versatile outfit. Libya and Wallis being grunty mids, Macrae and Bonts delivering. Pace across the ground (especially if Grant lifts).

We should play finals next year I've thought that since 2013

There's plenty of competition for Henderson, which will artificially push his price up. He'll not be worth as much as he's getting paid.
The competition for Carlisle will be a lot lower if clubs don't reckon they can land him. It's not going to be the open slather like it will be for Henderson.

 

[doggies ftw]

said it before but if Carlisle plays for us next year, Roughy becomes a ruck support/kpp utility. I rate him as ruck support, not so much as a forward but he'll be fine floating around the ground helping where it's needed. When he's forward he at least won't be a liability. With some of this talk, i suggest everyone listen to Roughy about the prospect of his role in the future on his latest SEN interview. There is a hint that the club will look at key backs to free him up as the ruck helper.

What's also worth noting is that Lachie Henderson is a viable second option this trade period, although i like him forward. If we're offering money it's to these two and it's likely that one of them comes off.

Next year we're looking good for a very tall and very versatile outfit. Libya and Wallis being grunty mids, Macrae and Bonts delivering. Pace across the ground (especially if Grant lifts).

We should play finals next year I've thought that since 2013

I know people love to point out Roughy doesn't work forward but he's only really been tried deep (and that was ages ago). I think he has a lot of attributes that you'd want in a CHF. He's really agile and mobile, he seems to do quite well in the middle of the ground when he's pushing up out of defence, he's good at ground level and with his hands in traffic, very neat skills, obviously has good hands. Only question mark on him is if he has the tank, which honestly I don't know either way, I'd imagine he's built a pretty solid tank by now but it just might not be big enough to play CHF. All he'd need to do is keep on presenting up the ground where he'd be the perfect target.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The problem is the club has refused to draft KPPs since 2011 and load up on best available/big bodied mids and smalls instead the last three drafts. We have taken on Crameri who is an undersizer (similar dimensions to Scott Welsh), Boyd and Hamling in that time. While Austin was delisted.

Hypothetically if the only KPPs we take on are draftees in this years and next years drafts then they are 4-5 years behind where Hamling, Talia, Roberts, Redpath etc are currently are at and it's unlikely all 4 will make it. The new draftees won't be any good at AFL level until 2018 at a minimum and maybe not til 2020/21 when you'd think we would be challenging along with GWS, GC, Melbourne, St Kilda, Brisbane etc.

Our midfielders are coming along great guns, we need to trade in 2 competent KPPs and draft/rookie another 2-3 in the next 2 years as Redpath and Cordy are unlikely to make it and we are likely to cop a couple of injuries to our talls eventually so competent back up is needed. If Boyd goes down without cover then we have to go back to Crameri/Stringer as number one and two and opposition defenders will have a day out going third man up all the time when we get it inside 50.

KPPs coming in to the club through both trade and draft are of vital importance to our list build at the moment considering who was traded out/delisted through that three year period.

Walker could well be a Josh Jenkins if given the chance, most successful teams have a 30/70 or 20/80 ruck forward in their set up say Tippett, Hale, Jenkins, Zac Clarke (more of a ruck but does is role), Lycett, Mitch Clark, Brown. Ryder will be for Port when Lobbe comes back. All of these players work in tandem with a number one ruck and a number one key forward. We have tried this with Cordy and Redpath and doesn't look like working as Cordy is a ruckman and Redpath a standout VFL key forward.

I just think we value smalls too much than talls and due to all of Claytons draft blunders 10-15 years ago with Wiggins, Walsh, Wight, Wells, West, Grant then the trade ins like Bandy, Rawlings, McDougall etc we have given up on developing key forwards due to the poor track record there. We have to buck the trend and not neglect this as it could cost us a flag and more preliminary final losses later down the track if it's not rectified in the short term.

FWIW Fuller was the 3rd rounder not Honeychurch who was a 4th

There's Josh Walkers avaliable every single off-season. When we're a finals team, that's when we get the Josh Walkers on our list, not when we still have a developing list.

Player movement will become more common in four years time when we're a flag contender. It's almost certain that we'll be able to land a Josh Walker type player than if we proactively went and got one. Boyd will be our forward/ruck in the future. I don't want him rucking now, but in for years time he'll be that forward/ruck now.

If we didn't have a Boyd or Talia (who is still criminally underrated, he's an absolute jet), then your points would be more valid.

 

[go you pups]

There's plenty of competition for Henderson, which will artificially push his price up. He'll not be worth as much as he's getting paid.
The competition for Carlisle will be a lot lower if clubs don't reckon they can land him. It's not going to be the open slather like it will be for Henderson.

Imo it's Fremantle, Brisbane or us who will be major players for KPPs come the end of the year.

Perhaps GWS and Melbourne need defenders also.

But like always it'll be Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn who will top up in this department.

 

[Zgope1]

I know people love to point out Roughy doesn't work forward but he's only really been tried deep (and that was ages ago). I think he has a lot of attributes that you'd want in a CHF. He's really agile and mobile, he seems to do quite well in the middle of the ground when he's pushing up out of defence, he's good at ground level and with his hands in traffic, very neat skills, obviously has good hands. Only question mark on him is if he has the tank, which honestly I don't know either way, I'd imagine he's built a pretty solid tank by now but it just might not be big enough to play CHF. All he'd need to do is keep on presenting up the ground where he'd be the perfect target.

He'd be far from a disaster, as I said, no liability. He and his cousin are born footballers, they'll make it work wherever they are. I think defense is his best position but that's a good thing, it means he's flexible. The club will look at him and see possibilities.

And threenewpadlocks i reckon we'd be in the box seat for Hendo. We're in melbourne, we have an equally exciting young list and we have the pick to get it done. Freo and Brissy the other competitors

 

[Hrovat24]

Dude on the D&T board just said he's sure Carlisle will either be at the bombers or the dogs next year. **** me I'm excited.

Still honestly want him at CHF but ah well wouldn't be complaining has anyone been watching him this year, hows he going and wheres he playing?

Also if we are getting him to play CHB well we must move Roughy forward and see how he goes asap because if we bring in Carlisle we can't play Rough and Talia alongside him in the backline IMO and if Roughy can't make the transition to ruck/forward that we hope he could well were in a pretty shit situation still looking for a forward with good defenders being held out of the team.

Just say we bring in Roberts and Hamling very soon, Roughy moves forward and starts playing really good footy in the 2nd forward/ruck role and then next year we bring in a fit Libba and Clay and Carlisle, well **** I'm talking a premiership push in 2016. Carlisle, Talia, and Moz (getting old)/Hamling/Roberts/Cordy down back. Rough, Boyd, Stringer, Crameri up forward with Libba, Macrae, Bonts, Wally, Clay etc through the middle. Jesus.

Getting ahead of myself? Maybe slightly...

Mate you have lost your shit hahaha we are no chance of winning a flag next year unless we get carlisle Henderson yarran treloar WHE shiel , even then we Prob still wouldn't win

 

[TimlinOfficial]

Can someone fill me in on any potential inside info about WHE? I know he is from the area and supposedly a Dogs fan as a kid (?), but is there any reason to believe it's possible/likely that he will be with us next year?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Can someone fill me in on any potential inside info about WHE? I know he is from the area and supposedly a Dogs fan as a kid (?), but is there any reason to believe it's possible/likely that he will be with us next year?

Until I see either Carlisle or WHE in red, white and blue, we're all being Lloyd Christmas.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Hey guys what would everyone think of taking a risk on Matty Kruezer. Mr cellophane, but if right he is the perfect CHF come ruckman we are searching for.

As a RFA we would get him for free (we won't lose any free agents this year so we don't have to worry about missing compo).

When right he is highly valuable and means we can keep picking the eyes out of the draft while addressing obvious needs.

Thoughts?

 

[go you pups]

There's Josh Walkers avaliable every single off-season. When we're a finals team, that's when we get the Josh Walkers on our list, not when we still have a developing list.

Player movement will become more common in four years time when we're a flag contender. It's almost certain that we'll be able to land a Josh Walker type player than if we proactively went and got one. Boyd will be our forward/ruck in the future. I don't want him rucking now, but in for years time he'll be that forward/ruck now.

If we didn't have a Boyd or Talia (who is still criminally underrated, he's an absolute jet), then your points would be more valid.

Well perhaps you could add Roughead and maybe Campbell but 4 KPPs don't equal a premiership winning spine, you need 8-9-10 competent KPPs and we need to get a few in sooner than later.

Back in 2009 we had Lake, Hudson and Minson with Morris, Hahn and Welsh battling above their height capabilities, in 2010 Hall replaced Welsh and Williams came in, but weren't good enough as this lot were on their last legs after minimal rest and rotation. In 1997 we had more KPPs and our forward line and rucks were good enough, but were too light down back.

The AFL will find ways to change rules and make it hard for us when we do rise up the ladder again etc tamper with free agency, introduce harsher father son/academy rules etc.

A player like Walker would help Boyd develop quickly and gain confidence and keep opposition defenders honest instead of Boyd being beaten and bruised every week, sure Boyd could be the next Tippett type but you don't put a kid on big bucks to be a future role player as you are suggesting. As I mentioned earlier all of those Clayton failures would have contributed to us not going deep in 2009 or 2010 as those players he drafted would have probably peaked by 09-10 except Grant. I can easily see Stringer and Crameri turning into Hahn and Welsh V2.0 if we keep neglecting our KPP stocks, our mids are coming on nicely we need to make a move in the KPP department but not just settle for one.

So explain how my points aren't valid?

 

[go you pups]

Hey guys what would everyone think of taking a risk on Matty Kruezer. Mr cellophane, but if right he is the perfect CHF come ruckman we are searching for.

As a RFA we would get him for free (we won't lose any free agents this year so we don't have to worry about missing compo).

When right he is highly valuable and means we can keep picking the eyes out of the draft while addressing obvious needs.

Thoughts?

Spend 400-550K on an injury prone ruckman who has never cemented himself as a ruck or key forward, a flat no and I'd have more faith in Leuenberger playing more games than him to be honest.

If he was going for sub 300 and we were top 8 sure take the risk but he wouldn't play for that.

 

[BorisDawg]

Hey guys what would everyone think of taking a risk on Matty Kruezer. Mr cellophane, but if right he is the perfect CHF come ruckman we are searching for.

As a RFA we would get him for free (we won't lose any free agents this year so we don't have to worry about missing compo).

When right he is highly valuable and means we can keep picking the eyes out of the draft while addressing obvious needs.

Thoughts?

I'd only consider Kreuzer if he was going to come at a dirt cheap price. Low risk, high reward type thing.