Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Dogsman16]

It may not be an impossibility i.e., there is a possible scenario where all teams currently better than us are banned by WADA or heavily hit by injury, leaving only us, St Kilda, Melbourne and Carlton (insert other teams you think we are definitely better than) vying for the flag. However the unfortunate reality is us winning the flag next year is a heavy improbability.
The Western Bulldogs will not win the 2016 premiership, this is almost entirely certain. Our focus needs to be on what will make the Western Bulldogs winning the 2017-2025 premierships as near certainties as possible.

You may or may not be right, the probabilities are against us. But sk yourself the question though, currently as it stands, do you think in this trade period we have tried hard enough to make ourselves as near certainties as possible for the 2017 - 2025 premierships.

 

[Hoges64]

You may or may not be right, the probabilities are against us. But sk yourself the question though, currently as it stands, do you think in this trade period we have tried hard enough to make ourselves as near certainties as possible for the 2017 - 2025 premierships.

Not to be a third wheel in your conversation / argument but I do. There has been nobody on offer to significantly upgrade our list without selling the farm.

 

[immortalmike]

You may or may not be right, the probabilities are against us. But sk yourself the question though, currently as it stands, do you think in this trade period we have tried hard enough to make ourselves as near certainties as possible for the 2017 - 2025 premierships.

Depends upon who we draft. Ask me again this time next year.

 

[Hoges64]

Thanks for the reply TedDougChris. It seems that in essence this system favours interstate teams with Academies. Your suggested solution does have merit.

As much as it pains me to say it, that flogsock Eddie has a point. Academies are bad, mkay?

 

[Dogsman16]

Depends upon who we draft. Ask me again this time next year.

IMO I think we have left far too much to chance. Even if we do make some moves tomorrow a lot of things can go wrong in the mad rush at the end of the trade period not to mention we could be heavily reliant on other trades to go through from other clubs. Also that once again we are going to be heavily reliant on other clubs at the draft table so that we can find players we need desperately in the positions we all talk about need fixing.

Dally has said repeatedly that we we in need of a few things in the trade/draft period and so far we have acquired none of it and even more alarmingly we haven't upgraded our picks to try and maximise our chances at evening out this list (which is still not balanced). I would be lying if I said that it doesn't concern me greatly.

 

[Rockford18sx2]

As much as it pains me to say it, that flogsock Eddie has a point. Academies are bad, mkay?

I agree, he's right. And every club will now be pushing to have their own backyard, just like the northern interstate teams. Feels like we are going backwards in moving forwards in this competition. eg The return of the VFL 'Reserves' teams, boutique stadiums and now zoning.

 

[BRWB]

Honestly, I'm reasonably happy with our KPD stocks at this point in time.

Roberts just needs continuity, Hamling is a star in the making and Cordy made greater strides than most of us forecast before the season.

We need somebody to anchor these guys, and it's definitely our most pressing need, but I wouldn't be sounding the alarm because we didn't get that somebody this year.

Don't stress out. We're the best drafters and developers in the league right now, the kids will progress. Have a taco, watch other sports, enjoy the summer.

Didn't many here say the exact same thing last year when explaining away why we don't seem to draft tall players with our high picks?

Yes we got Boyd (mainly because of Griffen forcing the matter). At some point the club will have to actually draft for or trade for a quality KPD in a planned manner.

Talia was the saviour for many here. Now Roberts is our next saviour although he has the worst one on one stats for any KPD in the comp (except Talia), is often injured and has already had a few years to develop.

Do I expect us to trade if no one's available? No.

But I sure as hell would have expected us to actually draft for one - just one KP with a decent pick over the last 6 years. (Talia at P37 or something is the most we've spent IIRC)

 

[immortalmike]

IMO I think we have left far too much to chance. Even if we do make some moves tomorrow a lot of things can go wrong in the mad rush at the end of the trade period not to mention we could be heavily reliant on other trades to go through from other clubs. Also that once again we are going to be heavily reliant on other clubs at the draft table so that we can find players we need desperately in the positions we all talk about need fixing.

Dally has said repeatedly that we we in need of a few things in the trade/draft period and so far we have acquired none of it and even more alarmingly we haven't upgraded our picks to try and maximise our chances at evening out this list (which is still not balanced). I would be lying if I said that it doesn't concern me greatly.

I think much of that is an exercise in crystal balling and making assumptions with a very small amount of the available information. You are entitled to your concerns but at the end of the day I'll back the decision makers that built and maintained our list. I trust they can see the bigger picture better than I.

 

[Hoges64]

Didn't many here say the exact same thing last year when explaining away why we don't seem to draft tall players with our high picks?

Yes we got Boyd (mainly because of Griffen forcing the matter). At some point the club will have to actually draft for or trade for a quality KPD in a planned manner.

Talia was the saviour for many here. Now Roberts is our next saviour although he has the worst one on one stats for any KPD in the comp (except Talia), is often injured and has already had a few years to develop.

Do I expect us to trade if no one's available? No.

But I sure as hell would have expected us to actually draft for one - just one KP with a decent pick over the last 6 years. (Talia at P37 or something is the most we've spent IIRC)

Care to show us these "stats"?

Cos I have these ones....

 

[immortalmike]

Didn't many here say the exact same thing last year when explaining away why we don't seem to draft tall players with our high picks?

Yes we got Boyd (mainly because of Griffen forcing the matter). At some point the club will have to actually draft for or trade for a quality KPD in a planned manner.

Talia was the saviour for many here. Now Roberts is our next saviour although he has the worst one on one stats for any KPD in the comp (except Talia), is often injured and has already had a few years to develop.

Do I expect us to trade if no one's available? No.

But I sure as hell would have expected us to actually draft for one - just one KP with a decent pick over the last 6 years. (Talia at P37 or something is the most we've spent IIRC)

You know that's not true, right? Well at least it isn't based on the stats you've presented and made faulty assumptions about before.

 

[BRWB]

Care to show us these "stats"?

Cos I have these ones....

View attachment 187056

Compare Roberts stats for one on one defending to everyone else from that page. I have and by percentage he's the worst of all KPDs listed.

 

[Dogsman16]

I think much of that is an exercise in crystal balling and making assumptions with a very small amount of the available information. You are entitled to your concerns but at the end of the day I'll back the decision makers that built and maintained our list. I trust they can see the bigger picture better than I.

Fair enough our recruiting staff certainly hasn't lead us astray in recent years. I'm very very interested to see what we do in the next 24 hours and on draft night. Work is still yet to be done.

 

[immortalmike]

Compare Roberts stats for one on one defending to everyone else from that page. I have and by percentage he's the worst of all KPDs listed.

We've done this before.
The one's listed aren't the only KPDs in the league and not all listed even have one-on-one stats as part of their blurb.

 

[immortalmike]

Fair enough our recruiting staff certainly hasn't lead us astray in recent years. I'm very very interested to see what we do in the next 24 hours and on draft night. Work is still yet to be done.

I'd expect a couple of Hamling /Biggs type deals based on last year.

 

[Dav1d]

I'm in agreement that we probably don't make the GF next year (nice as it would be) next year it might be easier because some clubs won't be able to make moves, like Geelong for example can't trade any future early picks into the next year
So there may be less competition to get the player we want
Possibly a free agent....possibly a former all Australia key defender...
Hmm
I think we have enough to work with to be competitive but for sustained success it shouldn't be what Geelong just did...bank on making
Another premiership over the next few years, if they're lucky

 

[immortalmike]

Cameron Giles?

Don't mind him but haven't seen a huge amount. Guess it'll be up to the medicos.

 

[Dogsman16]

I'd expect a couple of Hamling /Biggs type deals based on last year.

My concern is that because we haven't yet traded anyone out, that we have little wriggle room to bring these types of players in. This is where we needed to pick up the value to get in some players of value that we might need. Sure lets not just chase anyone because they are KPP height but we aren't going to keep finding free pickups like Hamling was.

 

[BRWB]

You know that's not true, right? Well at least it isn't based on the stats you've presented and made faulty assumptions about before.

Yep worst of those listed so there's your correction and I'd dispute the faulty assumption bit. We've done it before why do it again?

But you've summed it up brilliantly in another post on this page, you have faith in our list management group whereas in some areas I think their decisions can be questioned.

Agree to disagree.

Time will tell. One year has gone by since this was hotly debated. The upshot?

Roberts injured and not good enough yet.

Rough injured or rucking.

Hamling ok with some elite traits but also injured and again not strong enough to take monsters regularly.

Cordy proven little other than sharing his brother's propensity to injure a shoulder.

Talia gone

All IMO.

 

[immortalmike]

My concern is that because we haven't yet traded anyone out, that we have little wriggle room to bring these types of players in. This is where we needed to pick up the value to get in some players of value that we might need. Sure lets not just chase anyone because they are KPP height but we aren't going to keep finding free pickups like Hamling was.

Plenty of wriggle room with Talia and our I'd assume our third rounder still in play.
Honestly think we'll back in what we've got and get a in case of emergency type.
If I was the club I'd be putting in plenty of time on Hooker as he's hitting FA next year.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Don't mind him but haven't seen a huge amount. Guess it'll be up to the medicos.

Nobody has seen much to be honest, injuries (navicular) a major issue over his AFL career to date. Not currently injured however.
Was drafted very close to Michael Talia, similar body shape, 195 cm defender.

 

[immortalmike]

Yep worst of those listed so there's your correction and I'd dispute the faulty assumption bit. We've done it before why do it again?

But you've summed it up brilliantly in another post on this page, you have faith in our list management group whereas in some areas I think their decisions can be questioned.

Agree to disagree.

Time will tell. One year has gone by since this was hotly debated. The upshot?

Roberts injured and not good enough yet.

Rough injured or rucking.

Hamling ok with some elite traits but also injured and again not strong enough to take monsters regularly.

Cordy proven little other than sharing his brother's propensity to injure a shoulder.

All IMO.

Once again you have also ignored that all players did not have the full one on one stats listed. That's where you're making faulty assumptions. You can't say he's worse than a player at something you haven't got the stats for.
That's my frustration, you are allowing your opinion to dictate not the stats.
The rest is fair enough.

 

[Mattdougie]

Would love to see what you posted about Griffen? Funny how the club didnt even know about it but you did.

Lets be honest with the rest of those names any ******* could put together 1 + 1 and make something out of it.

I stated several times Griffen wasn't happy and i said at one stage he may retire. The club knew exactly how pissed off he was. Only biased fools believe the story the dogs tried to sell us with Griff.

everything is easy in hindsight but my mail was very early on all these guys no matter how predictable you say they were.

How many names have I mentioned this off season EARLY and how many did we actually go after

Lobbe
Suckling
Martin
Carlisle

All names I said the club were keen on and I said it early

Have I mentioned any of the other 50 names out there? I've said I'd like some of them ie Jetta and a few others but I never said they were linked to the club from what I've heard.

My mail isn't my guesses its info from a mate and it's pretty good

Only people who deny it just don't like me which I find amusing coz I've always said it isn't my direct news

Anyway regardless I'm happy to admit pretty disappointed with out work this off season so hope we finds some gems in the draft coz apparently there isn't much in it

 

[Mattdougie]

None of it. I just disagree that we can't win the premiership next year. We are an absolute chance to win it.

Sorry mate just can't see it next year.

Mon the end we were a fair way off and u can't see us wining without a genuine ruckman

Again hope your wrong but if be gob smacked if we even make top 4 BUT I was wrong this year so who knows

 

[BRWB]

I stated several times Griffen wasn't happy and i said at one stage he may retire. The club knew exactly how pissed off he was.

everything is easy in hindsight but my mail was very early on all these guys no matter how predictable you say they were.

How many names have mentioned this off season EARLY and how many did we actually go after

Lobbe
Suckling
Martin
Carlisle

All names I said the club were keen on and I said it early

Have I mentioned any of the other 50 names out there? I've said I'd like some of them but no other linked to the club from what I've heard.

My mail isn't my guesses its info from a mate and it's pretty good

Only people who deny it just don't like me which I find amusing coz I've always said it isn't my direct news

Anyway regardless I'm happy to admit pretty disappointed with out work this off season so hope we finds some gems in the draft coz apparently there isn't much in it

Not being smart but what about the something big? Gonna happen still?

 

[Mattdougie]

Not being smart but what about the something big? Gonna happen still?

No mate I said earlier that deal(if it existed) must have fallen over.

I suggest it was Martin but my mate won't tell me

Disappointing on a few levels coz it didn't happen and if I'm right I don't consider Martin "big".