Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[BRWB]

Scores from turnovers (anywhere on the ground) are one of (if not the) biggest source of goals at AFL level. Our ball use is sub-par. We can't afford to trade out the few players who use it well.

Are people seriously arguing we should get rid of good ball users because we might, maybe get a tall forward (ignoring the fact we haven't drafted a good one for 20 years)?

We need more good kicks of the football, not less.

Assuming you are calling me people, then yes. I am arguing that we can afford to do without Hrovat, if in return we get two KPFs.

I will wager we can pick up other good kicks far more easily than a KPF.

Yes Wright for instance is unproven, but then I hear we have committed to Wright that we will be aiming to upgrade to get him. Based on our recent drafting record, I am prepared to back the club here. And Clark is good.

Don't get me wrong, I would trade any of Jones, Higgins (trade to not reduce their Frawley comp), Grant, our 2nd rd pick, Wood, ahead of Hrovat. Hrovat is the ceiling I would pay. I get your point re turnovers, but again having KPFs who can mark can take the heat off our kicking (and even make it look better).

 

[JTCWBFC]

Solid.
Practically cleaned out his locker already.

Will he be playing in the prelim and if they make it, the GF?

 

[Mofra]

Assuming you are calling me people, then yes. I am arguing that we can afford to do without Hrovat, if in return we get two KPFs.

I will wager we can pick up other good kicks far more easily than a KPF.

Yes Wright for instance is unproven, but then I hear we have committed to Wright that we will be aiming to upgrade to get him. Based on our recent drafting record, I am prepared to back the club here. And Clark is good.

Don't get me wrong, I would trade any of Jones, Higgins (trade to not reduce their Frawley comp), Grant, our 2nd rd pick, Wood, ahead of Hrovat. Hrovat is the ceiling I would pay. I get your point re turnovers, but again having KPFs who can mark can take the heat off our kicking (and even make it look better).

That's a huge "if" - and that was not mentioned in MD's post, where he wants to rid of him because he thinks he wont make it. I disagree with that completely.

Even with your adding in of new conditions I'm hesitant on a 1 or 2 pick upgrade, even assuming we can guarantee we get the player we want (which we can't because the order isn't set in stone especially this far out).

As an aside, having Barry Hall in the side did not make Boyd an elite kick. Hawthorn are elite kicks because they draft players who can kick, not because they have Roughy in the forward half. Take our last game - if we kick straight, we win.

Yes we'd love a KPF, but there's no point trading out something else we're in short supply of.

A month out from the trade period some wanted to trade a player to get a pick upgrade to 2 or 3 to pick up Aish. Who would want to trade a player + Bonti now for Aish?

 

[BRWB]

That's a huge "if" - and that was not mentioned in MD's post, where he wants to rid of him because he thinks he wont make it. I disagree with that completely.

Even with your adding in of new conditions I'm hesitant on a 1 or 2 pick upgrade, even assuming we can guarantee we get the player we want (which we can't because the order isn't set in stone especially this far out).

As an aside, having Barry Hall in the side did not make Boyd an elite kick. Hawthorn are elite kicks because they draft players who can kick, not because they have Roughy in the forward half. Take our last game - if we kick straight, we win.

Yes we'd love a KPF, but there's no point trading out something else we're in short supply of.

A month out from the trade period some wanted to trade a player to get a pick upgrade to 2 or 3 to pick up Aish. Who would want to trade a player + Bonti now for Aish?

Mate I don't read MD's posts so I don't know what you are talking about there. If I am agreeing with him on something, well there's always a first time . Don't get me wrong I rate Hrovat just not that highly that he is somehow untouchable.

But yes there is a point in upgrading if we get a KPF, that is rated as quality. Last year was different, no I wouldn't upgrade to switch from one mid to another, yes I would have upgraded to get Boyd but the price was ridiculous. Melbourne proved last year they would deal reasonably, so its a different ball game.

 

[the dog's kennel]

As an aside, having Barry Hall in the side did not make Boyd an elite kick. Hawthorn are elite kicks because they draft players who can kick, not because they have Roughy in the forward half. Take our last game - if we kick straight, we win.

I know that this was an aside. But let's be clear - Hrovat is pretty far from an elite kick.

He has composure. And can win his own ball. These are both very good things. But he ain't exactly Shaun Burgoyne with the ball in hand.

 

[Zgope1]

Solid.
Practically cleaned out his locker already.

What else have you heard Mofra?

 

[TBOW]

Assuming you are calling me people, then yes. I am arguing that we can afford to do without Hrovat, if in return we get two KPFs.

I will wager we can pick up other good kicks far more easily than a KPF.

Yes Wright for instance is unproven, but then I hear we have committed to Wright that we will be aiming to upgrade to get him. Based on our recent drafting record, I am prepared to back the club here. And Clark is good.

Don't get me wrong, I would trade any of Jones, Higgins (trade to not reduce their Frawley comp), Grant, our 2nd rd pick, Wood, ahead of Hrovat. Hrovat is the ceiling I would pay. I get your point re turnovers, but again having KPFs who can mark can take the heat off our kicking (and even make it look better).

I almost hate to say it but in theory I agree with this.
Quality talls are hard to come by and wasting money on average talls will only set us back.
If we need to sacrifice a decent mid to get an 18 year old athletic behemoth who can kick 60 meters straight then so be it, there are always plenty of decent mids in every draft and only a couple of talls.

I'm not sure Hrovat is specifically the player though – get the feeling that Wood may have been earmarked for a Patton trade and may have already come to terms with his fate. Maybe we do Wood and 5 for 3 and Jacksh? assuming we’re confident of Wright being there at 3.

 

[BRWB]

I almost hate to say it but in theory I agree with this.
Quality talls are hard to come by and wasting money on average talls will only set us back.
If we need to sacrifice a decent mid to get an 18 year old athletic behemoth who can kick 60 meters straight then so be it, there are always plenty of decent mids in every draft and only a couple of talls.

I'm not sure Hrovat is specifically the player though – get the feeling that Wood may have been earmarked for a Patton trade and may have already come to terms with his fate. Maybe we do Wood and 5 for 3 and Jacksh? assuming we’re confident of Wright being there at 3.

I don't like trading Hrovat, he will likely be a good player.

I am not sold on Jaksch (unproven), if we do the deal it should be with Melbourne for Clark (proven if fit) and Pick 2 (Wright or McCartin)

So: Melbourne get Wood or Hrovat and Pick 5
We get Pick 2 and Clark

 

[footyfan000001]

Still not sure on getting rid of Picken, he's a negating tagger and whilst Wallis has been injured Picken has been ok. Do we have anyone in the 2's who can fill that role?

No Way! definetly a required player in our 22!

 

[BallaratBulldog]

So: Melbourne get Wood or Hrovat and Pick 5
We get Pick 2 and Clark

I wish.

 

[Turtle3]

Dont want Reid, but he is worth a first rounder if he was off contract or on a reasonable salary.

But if a new club has to pick up a $800k contract, then IMO that devalues his trade value.

Not sure if this has been mentioned/clarified elsewhere, apologies if it has. Too many pages to ctach up on

I assume this figure (or whatever he's on) includes the COLA payment. Does this mean that since this no longer applies outside of Sydney (and he would theoretically be better off) would we need to match his non COLA salary (again I'm assuming that we or any other club interested in him don't get Sydney to part pay his salary? )

 

[Doggies_13]

Wondering peoples thoughts on McKernan and Leroy Jetta?

Also looking at the draft order both St kilda and Brisbane are likely to go KPF, Melbourne midfielder or KPD and GWS KPD. meaning unless we trade up we are unlikely to get Wright or McCartin, what would people think if we could trade pick 5/6 depending on Frawley compo and gain Gold Coasts two first rounders 7/8 and 15-17 and get a KPF and KPD in the first round

 

[Metal]

Ok go back to pre season and Macca had an interview on the news where he blasted some of the junior players and said if they don't wanna follow the plan they won't be here or something like that

The main guy that was referring to was Talia and his attitude over pre season and the reason that was poor was his belief that Macca has lead him down the garden path late last year after he signed with false promises.

So in fact if you want to know his attitude changed in less than 4 months and has not changed since

He wants out and if he can get put he will

I can't believe I have just read this. You begin by saying he is upset because the coach demanded he follow his game plan, otherwise on your bike. Well, so he should. That's his job.

You then mount a different argument saying the coach, in effect, lied to him.

I would be staggered if Macca didn't make some errors and didn't win all hearts, but to say he deliberately led Talia down the garden path and offered false promises all seems to be very emotive and unprofessional. Is that the Macca you know and embellish in your head?

Macca has had an open door policy whereby players can freely talk to him; he has also said that he tries to keep up a good relationship with players as human beings and with their families. This runs completely counter to the way you are portraying his player management abilities.

I find the responses you cite as Talia's to be so low level as to be almost unbelievable. If he is responding like this he should go. Sour grapes instead of self improvement and sacrifice would keep us a mediocre team forever.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

So you are saying:

Wright and Clark (Risky, might pull out again/Will his body hold up?) > Durdin/Lever and Hrovat

But it wouldn't have to play out that way - it could be Wright and Clarke Vs Durdin, Hrovat and Clark (ie Higgins compo for Clark, and keep our pick 5)

I'd actually go with option B out of those 2. Clark KPF, Durdin KPD, and we keep Hrovat.

 

[Flash86]

Wondering peoples thoughts on McKernan and Leroy Jetta?

Also looking at the draft order both St kilda and Brisbane are likely to go KPF, Melbourne midfielder or KPD and GWS KPD. meaning unless we trade up we are unlikely to get Wright or McCartin, what would people think if we could trade pick 5/6 depending on Frawley compo and gain Gold Coasts two first rounders 7/8 and 15-17 and get a KPF and KPD in the first round

A lot of people on here would be against picking up Mckernan. It was mentioned last year, that he was up for trade. Since now that he is a delisted free agent, I would have no problems with the dogs picking him up for nothing. All he does is take a spot on the list. I am sure he would be worth taking a punt on. I don't think he is the saviour that we need, but I think he is worthy of a spot on our list, and see if he can push himself into our best 18.
I would prefer him to Austin or Goodes or Howard.
I do understand we need to have list spots for draft picks and things, but still think he could be a spot in the 40 man squad.

Leroy jetta?? I don't think we need him. McKernan yes as he is a KPP, but its a no from me for Jetta

 

[Easty]

Oh absolutely they should ask but I just think the situation at our club won't suit him

Again I might be wrong just my thoughts

First time in a while I've agreed with you. Although I don't think it's necessary just the fact we're not a contending side yet - but more so the expectation that he'll change our fortunes. I think he plays his best footy and is at his happiest when he doesn't have the burden of high expectations attached to him. Therefore I think a club like Collingwood might suit him (if they hadn't already pissed away his role to Jesse White) where he'd be playing second fiddle to Cloke.

 

[BRG93]

Ok so I'm currently doing Bigfooty Trade Potentials again (If you don't know what they are link here)
Name the players who we HAVE been linked to not thrown up in Bigfooty

 

[King Harold]

I can't believe I have just read this. You begin by saying he is upset because the coach demanded he follow his game plan, otherwise on your bike. Well, so he should. That's his job.

You then mount a different argument saying the coach, in effect, lied to him.

I would be staggered if Macca didn't make some errors and didn't win all hearts, but to say he deliberately led Talia down the garden path and offered false promises all seems to be very emotive and unprofessional. Is that the Macca you know and embellish in your head?

Macca has had an open door policy whereby players can freely talk to him; he has also said that he tries to keep up a good relationship with players as human beings and with their families. This runs completely counter to the way you are portraying his player management abilities.

I find the responses you cite as Talia's to be so low level as to be almost unbelievable. If he is responding like this he should go. Sour grapes instead of self improvement and sacrifice would keep us a mediocre team forever.

Good post Metal , but you are arguing with MD , so good luck with your projects

 

[Butane]

Normally by now we know of a few delistings. I wonder what's going on this year?

 

[Wizard17]

VFL stand alone team in finals

Normally by now we know of a few delistings. I wonder what's going on this year?

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Normally by now we know of a few delistings. I wonder what's going on this year?

some of the delistees are still involved in AFL finals perhaps? I suspect VFL grand final week will see some, barring those playing in the GF, who will be revealed shortly thereafter.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Normally by now we know of a few delistings. I wonder what's going on this year?

Waiting until the VFL finals are over. Not very smart to tell half a dozen players playing finals that they've got the boot. There have been a few delistings by other clubs, no one significant though.

 

[dogzrule]

Waiting until the VFL finals are over. Not very smart to tell half a dozen players playing finals that they've got the boot. There have been a few delistings by other clubs, no one significant though.

I'm pretty sure Christian would have a fair idea

 

[John Smith92]

But it wouldn't have to play out that way - it could be Wright and Clarke Vs Durdin, Hrovat and Clark (ie Higgins compo for Clark, and keep our pick 5)

I'd actually go with option B out of those 2. Clark KPF, Durdin KPD, and we keep Hrovat.

If we were able to get Clark with for instance the Higgins compo you'd have to assume we would then not have to trade up in the draft for another key forward. Taking a risk on Clark's body/mind would really be no worse than taking the risk that Wright/McCartin might not make it, but it would cost much less and leave us free to draft Durdin/Lever and start filling our other major weakness without having to trade anybody.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Mark Stevens and Tim Watson say Hawthorn. Seriously do these guys just guess?

If that happened, it would be a joke and would confirm the AFL is quickly becoming our own version of the EPL (a few very powerful clubs and the rest not standing a chance).