Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[cammo78]

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

If all this IS true, it's about bloody time the tail stopped wagging the dog at this club, it's been going on for decades and it's not on. Thankfully McCartney has the balls and nous to call it and do something about it, no matter whose nose gets put of of joint.

As far as the older players go - they can GAGF. Some have obviously been told some home truths and are having trouble dealing with it.

I'd class Gia as an "older player"...he doesn't seem too keen to get out of the joint, having signed on as a coach.

Who does that leave? Boyd? Not happy with his contract offer? Well sorry champ, you're 32 with poor disposal and playing in a midfield with a plethora of good kids...suck it up or there's the door, go find yourself a better deal. Appreciate your service, but this is a cut-throat business.

Minson? Didn't like being dropped? You were a shadow of yourself son, you were utterly cooked. Nothing to gain from two junk time games.

Higgins? Pfft. Not interested in your stories champ. Come back when you've managed two consistent seasons running and we'll talk.

Morris. Be the last bloke to drop his bundle. The ultimate professional.

Griffen. Been injured all year. Not him.

Cooney. Suspect Coons is dirty on his mate about to get back to back flags, but if he wants out to go and chase it...there's the door, champ.

 

[doggies ftw]

Sorry I meant challenge not make. If we get rid of Minson, we ain't finishing with 10 wins.

Any lotto numbers Timtam?

We finished with 8 wins with Minno absolutely killing it as our 2nd best player, the next year we improved enough to finish on 7 wins with Minno our 17th best player (and obviously some other things effecting the team too like Griff).

I don't think you can say with any certainty that we couldn't win 10 games without Minno.

 

[Dav1d]

If all this IS true, it's about bloody time the tail stopped wagging the dog at this club, it's been going on for decades and it's not on. Thankfully McCartney has the balls and nous to call it and do something about it, no matter whose nose gets put of of joint.

As far as the older players go - they can GAGF. Some have obviously been told some home truths and are having trouble dealing with it.

I'd class Gia as an "older player"...he doesn't seem too keen to get out of the joint, having signed on as a coach.

Who does that leave? Boyd? Not happy with his contract offer? Well sorry champ, you're 32 with poor disposal and playing in a midfield with a plethora of good kids...suck it up or there's the door, go find yourself a better deal. Appreciate your service, but this is a cut-throat business.

Minson? Didn't like being dropped? You were a shadow of yourself son, you were utterly cooked. Nothing to gain from two junk time games.

Higgins? Pfft. Not interested in your stories champ. Come back when you've managed two consistent seasons running and we'll talk.

Morris. Be the last bloke to drop his bundle. The ultimate professional.

Griffen. Been injured all year. Not him.

Cooney. Suspect Coons is dirty on his mate about to get back to back flags, but if he wants out to go and chase it...there's the door, champ.

How about Murphy?

Very opinionated guy

Any lotto numbers Timtam?

We finished with 8 wins with Minno absolutely killing it as our 2nd best player, the next year we improved enough to finish on 7 wins with Minno our 17th best player (and obviously some other things effecting the team too like Griff).

I don't think you can say with any certainty that we couldn't win 10 games without Minno.

If we didn't get another ruck that could with a decent tank we'd really hurt/struggle again next year though
Campbell simply isn't ready, his tank is just too poor to improve across one pre-season

 

[yebiga]

Minson didn't play this year

 

[Leezorr]

Who are the older blokes? 6 players, real strife down there...........

The only ones that matter are Griffen, Morris and Murphy

The future is the kids, fact.

 

[DognBones]

Yes, it's an immediate need.
I'm probably not a close enough observer of other clubs to suggest the best candidates, especially as I don't know who's available.
Malceski sounds good!

What about Lumumba? Perhaps too much baggage there?

 

[Dav1d]

What about Lumumba? Perhaps too much baggage there?

The guy admits he can stand up in big pressure moments because he has had a gun pointed at him, when he went overseas

 

[fronkalicious]

What about Lumumba? Perhaps too much baggage there?

Nah. Not a bad player, but doesn't fit for us

 

[Tommycash]

Thats a bit too big of a forward line for me. Having Redpath and a Ruckman in there isn't the greatest option for mobility and tackling pressure.

In fairness Redpath is great at applying pressure. But I totally agree, you can't have a side that tall.

 

[yebiga]

Very interesting
Griff murph Morris' Picken gave their heart and soul this season
The kids macrae string bonty liber dalh gave their all
Minno Boyd cooney did not

It seems macca is not going to accept passengers from the senior group

He has enough work to do with creameries jones grant ....

 

[DognBones]

If, as reported in this morning's Age, 3 clubs are interested in Jones, I suspect we may accept the trade (player and/or draft pick) from the highest bidder. I'd rather he stayed but I think there's going to be more action from our list managers than many of us predict. Just a feeling.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I watched the old scarecrow - with a bit of goading from GaryLyon - slap us around with a wet lettuce on Footy Classified last night, it was little more than a grab bag of rumours about supposed internal rumblings at Whitten Oval that have been floating around on here for months.

I preferred the good old days when journalistic sauces weren't quite so transparent.

 

[yebiga]

Very interesting
Griff murph Morris' Picken gave their heart and soul this season
The kids macrae string bonty liber dalh gave their all
Minno Boyd cooney did not

It seems macca is not going to accept passengers from the senior group

He has enough work to do with creameries jones grant ....

 

[Dav1d]

Very interesting
Griff murph Morris' Picken gave their heart and soul this season
The kids macrae string bonty liber dalh gave their all
Minno Boyd cooney did not

It seems macca is not going to accept passengers from the senior group

He has enough work to do with creameries jones grant ....

Wrote it twice

and I hope he doesn't accept passengers, from anybody

play your ass off or pack up your bags and on your bike

 

[littlenails]

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

Smacks of poor man-management skills. What happens when the younger players get to be middle players and middle players get to be older players does he then upset them.

There is a nice German word for this - 'verschlimmbessern', that means while you are trying to make something better, you are actually making it worse.
Better just shorten that word to 'bessen'.

I think that we would be bessen if we lost Minson, Jones and Higgins; good standard AFL players don't just grow on trees.

 

[littlenails]

Haha, so it is. However my post started from the observation that we are badly unbalanced by not having a good rebounding HBF other than Murphy especially as we stuff up others on the list by trying to make them fit this role. A couple of natural HBFs on the list could see us use other players where their natural talents are best suited.

So, who are these other players on our list we have 'verschlimmbesserned' ('bessened'). Is one of them JJ?

I like my new word.

 

[cammo78]

How about Murphy?

Very opinionated guy

If Murph doesn't want to pull in the same direction as the club, then he can GAGF too.

Seriously. The days of players dictating to management are gone. And it seems the natives may have become a little restless about it.

 

[Mutt]

I know we need a good KPF. That's a perennial. We might need a ruck and a KPD as well.

However I reckon we need at least one very good running HBF who can rebound and launch attacks. This has been a chronic deficiency since before Hargrave retired. Look at what we have been doing in this area:

Wood - recurring soft tissue injuries but finally showed some consistent form in 2014. However he usually plays deeper in defence and now he apparently wants to leave. POSSIBLE WIN ... if he stays.
Murphy - gun HF shifted to HBF out of expediency = WIN ... although we really needed him at HF still ...
... and as he is over 30 we know he won't be around much longer, so the search continues.

Goodes - a gun midfielder in the VFL is elevated from rookie list and played at HBF where he is not well suited. FAIL
Higgins - an excellent playmaker at HF is shifted to defence in a copy of the Murphy move, but he doesn't have the pace, agility or defensive nous. Unhappy playing in defence and now he reportedly wants to leave under FA. FAIL
Howard - a reach in the draft as a wing or HBF, supposedly with excellent delivery, ended up playing a lot at HBF. FAIL
Fuller - another supposedly excellent kick and a reach in the ND, had his season cruelled by injury but hasn't done anything of note yet. LIKELY FAIL
Pearce - admittedly only a pick in the 50s, but hasn't impressed in his time at the club. Likely to be delisted. FAIL
Cooney - being squeezed out of midfield by fitter and younger players, was tried at HBF and was terrible at it. FAIL
Darley - traded in as a good kick and plays HBF but doesn't get heaps of the ball and still needs to fill out. JURY STILL OUT
Johannisen - plays deep in defence a fair bit but may be better as a winger. Looks a real prospect but is he too short to be a genuine HBF? JURY STILL OUT
Stringer - tried in defence, supposedly only for the learning experience - or was it? Anyway he's definitely wasted back there. FAIL
Jong - just starting to come good in the midfield after three years as a rookie. Please Macca, don't try to make him a HBF!! NOT A CANDIDATE!

NB: I don't count Young and Morris as running half backs who launch attacks. Young is a FAIL anyway, and Morris (who is not noted for his distribution) is always being co-opted as a KPD.

My point is that we have jerked our side around and played good players in sub-optimal positions for the want of a a good running half back. So the knock on effects are worse than just not having anyone to launch attacks - we also lose the value of someone who should be a forward or a midfielder.

We would be a much more dangerous and a better balanced side if we could recruit and develop (or trade) a tallish free-running player of the likes of Michael Johnson*. Say 188-193cm, good tank, excellent decision making and delivery, reasonable pace, defensive nous.

I would not be averse to using a high pick on such a player. Probably my top priority after a good KPF.

* Not suggesting we could get M.Johnson. Just using him as an example.

Lever meets your brief from this year's draft. We'd have to take him with our first pick.

 

[doggies ftw]

How about Murphy?

Very opinionated guy


If we didn't get another ruck that could with a decent tank we'd really hurt/struggle again next year though
Campbell simply isn't ready, his tank is just too poor to improve across one pre-season

I reckon we could get just as much out of Cordy and Campbell as we got out of Minno this year, and I'd take a small hit in the ruck for this year if it meant we could develop those guys better and also bring in someone like Reid or another good draftee with what we get for Minno. Besides a mature ruck who is at least capable can be found just about anywhere for very little.

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

I call so much bullshit on this it's not funny. What about all the guys young and old joking around at the Brownlow, didn't look like too much bad blood, if you follow the guys on social media they all seem pretty close - What about the holiday that Koby, Picken, Wallis, Hunter, Minno, Gia, Griff and Higgins went on after the season? What about everything you see on field pointing to the opposite of this rumour? What about Boyd, Gia, Morris and Murph all recommitting to the club this year? Along with all our main kids?

Bulllllllshitttt

 

[mambavino]

As the season comes to a close there is more free column space to fill in the sports sections of both the Melbourne papers, as well as more air time to fill on the dedicated sports radio stations and TV programs. With the number of so called "football experts" employed by these organisations increasing every year, there is also more people who need to find stories to justify their continued employment.

This all leads to overblown stories, which this one certainly appears to be. What is most likely healthy discussion between coaches, younger players, and senior players becomes "player split/discontent" because it makes for a better story.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Besides a mature ruck who is at least capable can be found just about anywhere for very little.

Who, and where?

I've seen this phrase repeated 3 times in the last few days on this board (possibly by you, I'm not sure, but will use your latest instance to question it, sorry).

Apart from Giles, what other mature, capable rucks are flooding the market at the moment who will come cheap?

 

[dogwatch]

So, who are these other players on our list we have 'verschlimmbesserened' ('bessened'). Is one of them JJ?

I like my new word.

Read my earlier post. There are at least four.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ent-discussion.1012344/page-825#post-35285494

Nice word by the way ... but it hasn't got enough syllables.

Lever meets your brief from this year's draft. We'd have to take him with our first pick.

Wouldn't be the worst outcome, although I'd still like a quality KPF if we can get one.

 

[JJHunter]

If Murph doesn't want to pull in the same direction as the club, then he can GAGF too.

Seriously. The days of players dictating to management are gone. And it seems the natives may have become a little restless about it.

Its not that black and white !!

If there are legimate issues and concerns with Macca by the playing group and he has lost them - whether you like it or not it has to be addressed and if there are enough affected players then its easier and cheaper and less painful in the way of onfield results to replace the coach.

There is a 400000 page topic on this forum containing a great number of supporters that have been documenting their dissatisfaction with the coach.
If their concerns and the concerns of the players are legitimate you cant say say players cant dictate what the club does.
Of course they can if their grievousness are legitimate.

Dont buy into the media hyper thats its all been about the exit interviews - There could be alot more depth to the issues.

 

[Dav1d]

Who, and where?

I've seen this phrase repeated 3 times in the last few days on this board (possibly by you, I'm not sure, but will use your latest instance to question it, sorry).

Apart from Giles, what other mature, capable rucks are flooding the market at the moment who will come cheap?

Jonathon Griffin? Currently sitting behind Zac Clarke and Sandilands, with some upcoming young rucks; he might not get much future game time
is 28 though

there isn't many

http://www.afl.com.au/afl/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#position/ruck/page/2

 

[Dogs Rule]

I watched the old scarecrow - with a bit of goading from GaryLyon - slap us around with a wet lettuce on Footy Classified last night, it was little more than a grab bag of rumours about supposed internal rumblings at Whitten Oval that have been floating around on here for months.

I preferred the good old days when journalistic sauces weren't quite so transparent.

She loves to get involved in some muckraking and for all her protesting about Hutchy, she's just as bad.

Pathetic.