Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[stefoid]

Easy to forget how much clubs overrate draft picks when it comes to trading ready made players. Sure it probably takes a first round pick to draft a player that is a safe bet to be an adequate replacement for Keath but that’s just never how it works.

An early second would comfortably get it done.

And as much as I hate to say it, Sam Power has proven nothing yet with his drafting. Bailey Smith at 7 was a best available AND fits needs pick, so he gets some credit for not NOT picking him, if you get me, but not a heap. West f/s = done deal. Vandameer is really the 1st draft pick that he has been able to put his stamp on, which isnt much form to go on yet.

so if we get a 10+ 1st round pick, that is a huge test of a recruiters mettle because all the no brainers are gone, but its vitally important not to waste it.

Club strategy-wise, you would be thinking maybe a bird in the hand with trading for proven quality players might be more prudent than entrusting your best picks to a noob recruiter. I think its rather lucky for us as a club that our age profile is OK with trading for established players, and that we have some good F/S and academy payers coming through that we will have to use highish picks on, at a time when our star recruiter has just buggered off. IT de-risks the situation a lot.

This is nothing against Sam, but he is new to the job, and people take time to learn and get better in any profession.

Would anyone happen to know if dalrymple takes his recruiting network with him to sydney, or does it belong to us and sam is leveraging it?

 

[WallyStringhaus]

First with something back is substantially different to a flat our pick close to the top ten though. I think Adelaide would be within their rights to ask for a late first/very early second.
I expect us to trade down our first in any case given we've been linked to Jack Martin, Keath and Walla. We're taken a lot of kids in recent years and we'll take 3 top end talents next year in NGA/FS picks alone.
I'm happy to trade for mature talent this year given we're on the cusp of finals while putting the 4th youngest team on the paddock every week (an outlier in the top 8).

Put those three - or even two of them - in our side right now and we're legitimate challengers, let alone with an extra pre-season into English and Bailey Smith.

Still think that is valuing Keath too high. Hamling pick 35, Adams pick 32 and a future 3rd, Roughead (who played his last game for us as a 27yo) pick in the 70's.

Our 2nd seems bang on to me.

 

[go the dogs]

Go look at AMT stats of each game individually. Take out Brisbane and you will see why some of us aren't at all interested. Especially for 650 maybe 400 no way 650.

 

[Mofra]

Still think that is valuing Keath too high. Hamling pick 35, Adams pick 32 and a future 3rd, Roughead (who played his last game for us as a 27yo) pick in the 70's.

Our 2nd seems bang on to me.

Fair enough, although Keath has been playing far better football than those three were when they were traded.

Hamling - great finals series, but was borderline delist a few months earlier.
Adams - injury prone and couldn't get on the paddock
Roughy - playing VFL as back-up ruck

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Fair enough, although Keath has been playing far better football than those three were when they were traded.

Hamling - great finals series, but was borderline delist a few months earlier.
Adams - injury prone and couldn't get on the paddock
Roughy - playing VFL as back-up ruck

Yup, good call. I just think Keath's age and lack of experience are warning signs when it comes to involving our 1st.

Jack Martin I have no issue with using our 1st in some capacity. 24yo, 100 games, amazing potential, current environment a mess...he could be a Charlie Cameron type for us.

 

[Mattdougie]

Go look at AMT stats of each game individually. Take out Brisbane and you will see why some of us aren't at all interested. Especially for 650 maybe 400 no way 650.

Yep

If he is judged on playing top 8 teams(which He kinda has to do to win finals) he would be playing VFL.

No one has said they hate Tippa it’s just paying 600k for a 300k footballer because he can “pressure” and we have the money is lunacy

 

[Growlin woof]

Yep

If he is judged on playing top 8 teams(which He kinda has to do to win finals) he would be playing VFL.

No one has said they hate Tippa it’s just paying 600k for a 300k footballer because he can “pressure” and we have the money is lunacy

IMO, Gordon has probably instructed to pay overs to get any indigenous player to get them to the club, which seems to be high on his agenda. Tippa seems to be right place right time.

 

[Mofra]

Yup, good call. I just think Keath's age and lack of experience are warning signs when it comes to involving our 1st.

Jack Martin I have no issue with using our 1st in some capacity. 24yo, 100 games, amazing potential, current environment a mess...he could be a Charlie Cameron type for us.

Hearing about his off-field maturity, I'm all over him. Martin screams the type of player who would do far better in our system.

Keath as our no 2 KPD for me makes us substantially better. Lewis Young is raw, Cordy not quite a KPP, and Keath is unusual in that he's a developed body but is still developing his football ability despite already performing at a high level.

We're in the position where certain players are worth more to us than they would be to other clubs and we need to approach this upcoming trade period accordingly. We're in far more need of mature talent than any other top 8 side given our list profile and we also have more cap space than any other top 8 side. I'm happy with the messaging from the club surrounding our possible trades so far.

 

[Richielad101]

Isaac Smith as a Bulldog. Anyone?

 

[TiAn_]

Keath's season as a whole may have been better than Hamling's 2016 season but Joel's finals series was next level.

We all knew the player he would become and his B&F results (6th, 7th and likely Top 5 this year) illustrate how good a player he now is.

I agree that Keath is exactly what we need, I just think a 1st rounder is too much. As it stands our first pick will be around the 10ish mark. Look back the players who have gone around that mark recently;

Caldwell
Naughton
Fogarty
Curnow
McKay
Florent
Sheed
Cripps

1st round picks are gold and we have been nailing them for a long time now. I'd be very hesitant to give one up for a guy with not that many runs on the board.

Plenty of disappointments have gone around pick 10 too. That doesn’t sway me.

 

[Mattdougie]

IMO, Gordon has probably instructed to pay overs to get any indigenous player to get them to the club, which seems to be high on his agenda. Tippa seems to be right place right time.

Then he should be sacked immediately if this is true( I don’t this it is while I’m saying this )

But to trade any player purely on race is racism itself and then to over pay someone due to their race is the icing on the cake. There are plenty of indigenous blokes out there so if he is so desperate to nab one at least pay what they are worth and not double their salary just to promote diversity

 

[Growlin woof]

Then he should be sacked immediately if this is true( I don’t this it is while I’m saying this )

But to trade any player purely on race is racism itself and then to over pay someone due to their race is the icing on the cake. There are plenty of indigenous blokes out there so if he is so desperate to nab one at least pay what they are worth and not double their salary just to promote diversity

Gordon has publicly stated he wants to see a greater indigenous presence in our team for various reason he has outlined and has attributed the lack of indigenous talent as to reason why Impey and Wingard did not land at our club. these are his words not mine.

So, makes sense to overpay someone, whom the bulldogs might rate very highly, to ensure he gets to the club, and satisfy his agenda of increasing the indigenous talent in the team.

It is reported we are offering 150k more then Essendon per year, why do you think we are offering so much more for a player that most will agree, doesn't command that sort of salary if there is no other factors at play?

that's just my opinion on it

 

[lachy]

Gordon has publicly stated he wants to see a greater indigenous presence in our team for various reason he has outlined and has attributed the lack of indigenous talent as to reason why Impey and Wingard did not land at our club. these are his words not mine.

So, makes sense to overpay someone, whom the bulldogs might rate very highly, to ensure he gets to the club, and satisfy his agenda of increasing the indigenous talent in the team.

It is reported we are offering 150k more then Essendon per year, why do you think we are offering so much more for a player that most will agree, doesn't command that sort of salary if there is no other factors at play?

that's just my opinion on it

I tend to agree with MD this surely would not be the reason.

the reason any club pays over for a player wanted at is current club is simple, he won't come otherwise. Unless there are no other opportunities or they are limited elsewhere, to attract a player from another club you pay overs

 

[giblj]

If some brave soul would start up a rumours thread again to list all the comings and goings in one post for those of us who don't have the time or inclination to wade through 5+ pages of this thread every day then I wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[footyfan000001]

Isaac Smith as a Bulldog. Anyone?

Yeah all for it. But prefer Martin first.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

And as much as I hate to say it, Sam Power has proven nothing yet with his drafting. Bailey Smith at 7 was a best available AND fits needs pick, so he gets some credit for not NOT picking him, if you get me, but not a heap. West f/s = done deal. Vandameer is really the 1st draft pick that he has been able to put his stamp on, which isnt much form to go on yet.

so if we get a 10+ 1st round pick, that is a huge test of a recruiters mettle because all the no brainers are gone, but its vitally important not to waste it.

Club strategy-wise, you would be thinking maybe a bird in the hand with trading for proven quality players might be more prudent than entrusting your best picks to a noob recruiter. I think its rather lucky for us as a club that our age profile is OK with trading for established players, and that we have some good F/S and academy payers coming through that we will have to use highish picks on, at a time when our star recruiter has just buggered off. IT de-risks the situation a lot.

This is nothing against Sam, but he is new to the job, and people take time to learn and get better in any profession.

Would anyone happen to know if dalrymple takes his recruiting network with him to sydney, or does it belong to us and sam is leveraging it?

That's not really how it works.

If Power doesn't get heap of credit for drafting Bazzalenka likewise Dalrymple doesn't get a heap for drafting Naughton, Richards and English (all obvious concenus selections that he has since been canonised for)

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sam Power doesn’t do the drafting, Nick Austin does. Sam Power does our trading and contracts.

 

[Golden_6]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sam Power doesn’t do the drafting, Nick Austin does. Sam Power does our trading and contracts.

Sam Power's official role is 'General Manager of List and Recruiting', and he heads up the entire division including recruiting. I think the club identified it was an issue as Dalrymple and McCartney were equals, and it caused a few differences between the pair. Austin is certainly the 'head' recruiter, but he works under Power and I'd say Power has the ultimate authority in the end.

 

[ossie_21]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Sam Power doesn’t do the drafting, Nick Austin does. Sam Power does our trading and contracts.

Pretty sure that's correct. Power replaced list manager McCartney & Austin replaced recruiting manager Dalrymple

edit - this posted about the same time probably makes more sense

Sam Power's official role is 'General Manager of List and Recruiting', and he heads up the entire division including recruiting. I think the club identified it was an issue as Dalrymple and McCartney were equals, and it caused a few differences between the pair. Austin is certainly the 'head' recruiter, but he works under Power and I'd say Power has the ultimate authority in the end.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Another Hawthorn steal

Really? A large slow moving forward in his mid 20s who has done three ACLs?

They can have him and continue their Dads Army.

 

[Sentinel]

If some brave soul would start up a rumours thread again to list all the comings and goings in one post for those of us who don't have the time or inclination to wade through 5+ pages of this thread every day then I wouldn't be disappointed.

Good idea, I'll make a thread.

 

[footyfan000001]

Really? A large slow moving forward in his mid 20s who has done three ACLs?

They can have him and continue their Dads Army.

Not such a bad thing if they get him for pick 120.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Not such a bad thing if they get him for pick 120.

That’s fine, but he’ll not have played for 18 months coming off his third knee on top of another earlier knee injury.

Avoid at all costs.

 

[Mattdougie]

Gordon has publicly stated he wants to see a greater indigenous presence in our team for various reason he has outlined and has attributed the lack of indigenous talent as to reason why Impey and Wingard did not land at our club. these are his words not mine.

So, makes sense to overpay someone, whom the bulldogs might rate very highly, to ensure he gets to the club, and satisfy his agenda of increasing the indigenous talent in the team.

It is reported we are offering 150k more then Essendon per year, why do you think we are offering so much more for a player that most will agree, doesn't command that sort of salary if there is no other factors at play?

that's just my opinion on it

So it’s now the President who selects the list and it’s racial profile?

Sure way to success

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Isaac Smith as a Bulldog. Anyone?

I was excited about that possibility earlier in the year but given Hawthorn's upswing it seems less likely now.