Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[adogsfan5]

Then why did Darcy going down there and clunking marks for two minutes help?

There is more than one way to skin a cat. More marking power up forward = less turnovers and less need for crumbers/speed. More crumbers = less turnovers and less need for marks. More defensive prowess = less harm done by turnovers and less need to make the most of every scoring chance.

The play is to get the best player we possibly can in any of these positions of need (preferably two of them). We then account for the other weaknesses with cheaper candidates and structural/systematic changes.

I’m all for Darcy being there long term. But I still think our structure and the way we move the footy needs a shit load of work.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I’m all for Darcy being there long term. But I still think our structure and the way we move the footy needs a s**t load of work.

Agreed. I would've thought with Naughton, JUH and even Darcy down there, the message would be fairly simple.

Get it in there long and fast! But no, we chip it around, go backwards, handball to the point of insanity and by that time we've gone from 60 out to the back pocket.

The kick it long/get it in quick theory is one which stands the test of time no matter how complicated coaches make the game.

 

[BEaston]

In fairness, if we were told at the start of the year that Naughts, Jamarra and Cody were going to kick over 100 goals between them, West was going to look good in earning 14 consecutive games and Darcy was going to make a big impact on his forward debut, most of us would've taken that.

On the progress of the named players, maybe Spangher's not so bad.

Also ranked 5th for points scored on the season

 

[Dogsman16]

Did you watch us have 71 inside 50s to score 12 goals on the weekend? What about watching assorted mids/Khamis/Schache trying to play ruck over the past four years?

We need defensive support but the disproportionate obsession with that side of the ground honestly astounds me. We have shortcomings in multiple phases of the game that have been exposed all year.

I did. I also watched us hit the post 4 times with an expected score of 108. Whilst basically carrying Josh bruce and a lack of natural small forwards down there.

Mind you the forward coach we have is no expert either. I think there’s several other things like natural smalls, defensive pressure, ball movement is the bigger issue rather than tall forward personnel. I understand Darcy isn’t going to be able to secondary ruck next year but Bev doesn’t really care about hit outs anyway and other KPP’s can take the stoppages anyway like they do currently.

I’d rather Bruest than Lobb.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I don’t think anyone could realistically argue against the second part I think the better argument is that we should be looking at other positions in need with those bold list management decisions. Defence is obvious but another small forward who can kick 30-40 goals would also be ideal.

True but a very good available KPDs and smalls who kick 30-40 goals don’t grow on trees. It maybe we just can’t get anyone worthwhile so we’ll fix the relief ruck as the opportunity has arisen.

 

[Dogsman16]

True but a very good available KPDs and smalls who kick 30-40 goals don’t grow on trees. It maybe we just can’t get anyone worthwhile so we’ll fix the relief ruck as the opportunity has arisen.

I doubt Peter bell makes it easy for us .

 

[Northernsoul74]

I doubt Peter bell makes it easy for us .

Then we walk. It seems an obvious “opportunity” we like but at the right price. We shouldn’t be desperate for Lobb.

 

[TiAn_]

We struggled to score against the better sides. In 10 games against top 8 sides we scored 11 goals or less 8 times.

 

[VitalDread]

Via Fox Footy: Port Adelaide receiving an end-of-first-round or second-round draft pick as compensation for his exit.

 

[VitalDread]

Keep an eye out on North chasing Dunks

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I’m all for Darcy being there long term. But I still think our structure and the way we move the footy needs a s**t load of work.

It'd be nice to see us move away from crabbing it outside of the flanks by hand and biting off more kicks that cut the angles and drive through the middle of the ground. Putting aside the occasional miss hit, Dale is usually very proficient at hitting targets coming out off the goal square, its at this point that we seem to stop and look sideways instead of moving the ball on at pace. I dont know if this is a consequence of use playing such a high defensive press where we need to stop and wait, a lack of genuine ball carriers with pace or a coach who has reverted to a more defensive game plan designed to protect a shaky defence incase of a turnover in the middle of the ground.

Whatever it is. I dont think its an issue with the forward line coaching, but one of midfield coaching (Marc Webb. Im looking at you!) and the way we set up behind and around the ball. Dont get me started on our centre square setups. Our often treacle like transition of the ball between the arcs is just so perplexing given the talent that rotates through there when we have our best side on the park.

If we can sort this aspect of our game out we have enough at each end to be proper contenders again. It would be a miracle of epic proportions on par with the resurrection if we could sort this issue out over the next fortnight. For all of the talk about finding a KPD, a 2nd ruck or whatever...this is the pressing issue for our side going into next season. You've got one job Bevo!

 

[Northernsoul74]

Via Fox Footy: Port Adelaide receiving an end-of-first-round or second-round draft pick as compensation for his exit.

Please don’t accept that for Dunkley.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Keep an eye out on North chasing Dunks

Rumour they want to split their first.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Shopping list:
KPD
Fast winger
Crumbing forward
Intercept defender
Forward Ruck
Burst midfielder


The KPD is best targeted in the draft and yes, that means weighting 3 years. I can’t see us getting Barass or McKay, there is little else out there that is a realistic option. Payne maybe.

Fast winger can be found in this trade period.

Crumbing forward, Rowe is serviceable and appears likely delisting.

Ruck/forward Lobb is on the move, could be obtained IF we pay the right wage.

Intercept defender could be the KPD drafted, eg. Busslinger or Hayes.

Burst midfielder - has to be an early pick, IF the KPD are gone, then George should be there.

I think I largely agree. I wouldn't say I'm high on the need for an intercept defender though. I think we have several players who can fill that role, the problem is just that our rebounds are so unprotected at the moment that there are very few chances to actually intercept the ball. I would have a close-checking small defender as a bigger priority.

My first play would be to try to target a high quality key defender. The market is super, super tough right now, though, so I don't have high hopes - but I would throw everything at an attempt.

Failing that, I would settle for one or two of Jones/Melican/Payne/similar type, keep training Darcy back there for another season, and focus on improving our offensive capabilities to the point where we can be more conservative through the middle of the ground (i.e. eliminate or ease the high press). I would make drafting a KPD a priority, and IF (and only if) all of our forwards fire, I might consider having a look at Naughton back and seeing whether we look better structuring that way in the short-term. But I doubt it.

I would then move to the forward line and try to kill two birds with one stone with Lobb. It seems we're a decent chance there and I think he's a perfect fit. Young enough to contribute immediately, old enough to not hinder Darcy.

Rowe seems fine as a crumbing forward.

Wing/mid can be gotten through the draft. Bergman would be excellent - I would go hard but otherwise would be happy going to the draft.

Overall, though - our assets should be used on the best player available, not necessarily the best defender available. If we fail at a top-line KPD I'd go for a KPF/ruck; fail there and we move down the chain to a great smaller forward. We need more talent.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Not a fan of the Rowe trade. I don’t see much point in a small with little pace.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

If North want to split their first, give us something in the top 12 for Dunks go for it. Fact is, he wants the money, he wants to be a captain, he wants to be in the lime light, and North can give him all that, he ain't gonna be that behind Bont.

 

[doggies ftw]

In fairness, if we were told at the start of the year that Naughts, Jamarra and Cody were going to kick over 100 goals between them, West was going to look good in earning 14 consecutive games and Darcy was going to make a big impact on his forward debut, most of us would've taken that.

On the progress of the named players, maybe Spangher's not so bad.

Fair point but Naughty & Cody kicked 74 between them last year (Cody only played 16 games) I claimed Cody would kick 40 odd this preseason, he’s absolute quality. Naughty, Cody & Marra to add just another 25 odd goals to that tally this year should have been reasonably expected, they’re 22yo, 20yo & 19yo.

I’m reluctant to put individual development that was already evident pre-Spangher down to Sphanger, maybe he has helped - then great a development coach role but be a good start for him.

Also ranked 5th for points scored on the season

I think it’s become more and more evident as the years gone on that this is more down to midfield dominance, I’m guessing we lead inside 50s by a ton as per usual? And well individual brilliance from Naughty mostly.

Probably also skewed by the massive wins we’ve had against shit teams (160 vs WCE, 125 vs Hawks/GWS, 139 v Norf) the reality is we’ve struggled to score more than 70 against good sides who don’t allow us midfield dominance (Melbourne game the clear outlier)

There’s been very very little improvement in the cohesion and efficiency of our forward line all season, almost reached boiling point on Sunday with the lack of creativity in our entries.

Painful, no stats in the world will convince me we have an effective method of entry & any sort of structure whatsoever to the way we want our forward line to function. It’s round 23 and were yet to convince a flipping small to stay out of a contest and hit front & centre of the drop zone ffs.

It’s a shambles tbh

 

[doggies ftw]

It'd be nice to see us move away from crabbing it outside of the flanks by hand and biting off more kicks that cut the angles and drive through the middle of the ground. Putting aside the occasional miss hit, Dale is usually very proficient at hitting targets coming out off the goal square, its at this point that we seem to stop and look sideways instead of moving the ball on at pace. I dont know if this is a consequence of use playing such a high defensive press where we need to stop and wait, a lack of genuine ball carriers with pace or a coach who has reverted to a more defensive game plan designed to protect a shaky defence incase of a turnover in the middle of the ground.

Whatever it is. I dont think its an issue with the forward line coaching, but one of midfield coaching (Marc Webb. Im looking at you!) and the way we set up behind and around the ball. Dont get me started on our centre square setups. Our often treacle like transition of the ball between the arcs is just so perplexing given the talent that rotates through there when we have our best side on the park.

If we can sort this aspect of our game out we have enough at each end to be proper contenders again. It would be a miracle of epic proportions on pare with the resurrection if we could sort this issue out over the next fortnight. For all of the talk about finding a KPD, a 2nd ruck or whatever...this is the pressing issue for our side going into next season. You've got one job Bevo!

Yep absolutely this.

Personnel would play a big part in this too, I’ll bang on about this every opportunity I get but filling the fundamental roles that should be for guys that move the ball forward either at pace or by precision, the wings and forward flanks - with the likes of Hunter, 2022 Williams, Roarke, McComb, VDM, McNeil etc is just not going to work. Most of these guys are inside midfielders and ball movement killers, they break down chains, too slow & scared to pull the trigger on risky kicks.

Your wings & flanks are supposed to be guys who can capitalise on the supply they receive from our inside core, not the ones that we’d prefer to avoid at all costs when moving the ball.

 

[BEaston]

Fair point but Naughty & Cody kicked 74 between them last year (Cody only played 16 games) I claimed Cody would kick 40 odd this preseason, he’s absolute quality. Naughty, Cody & Marra to add just another 25 odd goals to that tally this year should have been reasonably expected, they’re 22yo, 20yo & 19yo.

I’m reluctant to put individual development that was already evident pre-Spangher down to Sphanger, maybe he has helped - then great a development coach role but be a good start for him.



I think it’s become more and more evident as the years gone on that this is more down to midfield dominance, I’m guessing we lead inside 50s by a ton as per usual? And well individual brilliance from Naughty mostly.

Probably also skewed by the massive wins we’ve had against s**t teams (160 vs WCE, 125 vs Hawks/GWS, 139 v Norf) the reality is we’ve struggled to score more than 70 against good sides who don’t allow us midfield dominance (Melbourne game the clear outlier)

There’s been very very little improvement in the cohesion and efficiency of our forward line all season, almost reached boiling point on Sunday with the lack of creativity in our entries.

Painful, no stats in the world will convince me we have an effective method of entry & any sort of structure whatsoever to the way we want our forward line to function. It’s round 23 and were yet to convince a *ing small to stay out of a contest and hit front & centre of the drop zone ffs.

It’s a shambles tbh

Every other team also got to play against those shit teams and put big scores on. Still 5th overall.

It's not perfect but shambles is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Dogsman16]

We struggled to score against the better sides. In 10 games against top 8 sides we scored 11 goals or less 8 times.

Our KPF stocks were completely different in the first half of the year. Darcy and Bruce both were unavailable and Jamarra was in and out of the side for 2/3 of the season.

I mean we had Khamis and Cordy in the forward line at stages and English also missed a chunk of footy (which didn’t allow us to play 2 rucks. I mean the phrase “Naughton or naught” was thrown around in the media at every occasion.

 

[doggies ftw]

Every other team also got to play against those s**t teams and put big scores on. Still 5th overall.

It's not perfect but shambles is a bit ridiculous.

It’s different with our team makeup, not every team has the best midfield in the comp either.

Agree to disagree, I’m quite comfortable calling our forward line a shambles considering the quality of players.

In saying that I don’t think our entries are good it goes deeper than our forward line, but usually it’s a stagnant mess of 5 blokes calling for it long over the top. So not sure what our mids are supposed to do? What comes first? Poor entries or poor forward line causing poor entries, probably both to blame.

 

[Northernsoul74]

It’s different with our team makeup, not every team has the best midfield in the comp either.

Agree to disagree, I’m quite comfortable calling our forward line a shambles considering the quality of players.

In saying that I don’t think our entries are good it goes deeper than our forward line, but usually it’s a stagnant mess of 5 blokes calling for it long over the top. So not sure what our mids are supposed to do? What comes first? Poor entries or poor forward line causing poor entries, probably both to blame.

We need to accept that our midfield isn’t the best in the comp. Great on paper but it’s too same same.

 

[doggies ftw]

We need to accept that our midfield isn’t the best in the comp. Great on paper but it’s too same same.

Mmm not playing as the best in the comp but were definitely top 3 on pure ability - the depth of ours is off the charts compared to everyone else even Melbourne & top end quality is only matched by Melbourne.

Reason for our under performance? No idea but it’s not the personnel IMO

 

[Libbaaaa]

Sammy Edmund still running with Dunkley likely to stay with us.

 

[Munnez]

Melbourne’s midfield would be ridiculous.

How does Melbourne fit him in under the cap??