Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Walsh Bay]

.... they are not a close unit up there players train with headphones on, not friendly....

No wonder Marcus Adams feels at home

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

My kingdom for Fletcher Roberts.
An intelligent defender with good skills.

I do somewhat agree, but Fletch would get absolutely eaten alive in this team. No way he could survive playing 10 metres in front of his man with no midfield pressure.

 

[Unorth]

Schache's been with us 5 years and the same words are being written about him right now as throughout those 5 years. His most promising season was 2019 when he kicked 24 goals but since then he has been in and out of the side on a regular basis. As many others have said, he occasionally excites and gives hope but the consistency is never there particularly against teams that can apply pressure. I think the club will not offer a contract extension this time around.

I thought we might and should but no point if we’re getting (and upgrading with) Lobb anyway. Has to be gone if Lobb eventuates.

 

[immortalmike]

I do somewhat agree, but Fletch would get absolutely eaten alive in this team. No way he could survive playing 10 metres in front of his man with no midfield pressure.

All our defenders get eaten alive anyway.
I'd at least prefer someone with good disposal and defensive instincts over whatever the hell Gardner and O'Brien are delivering.

I also think lack of midfield pressure is overstated somewhat. Yes we don't have the most defensively minded midfield. But is it any worse than Carlton or Brisbane. We just set up poorly and have some of the dumbest defenders in the league.

 

[TedDougChris]

I just wish we would slightly adjust our game plan to counter the opposition once in a while.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I have heard that FR was the perfect teammate and clubman.
Minimal fuss and great person to have as a teammate and around the club.

Glad he was part of 2016

He was the subject of one of the Bulldog Tragician's articles.

 

[Dogsman16]

Watching the swans vs bombers game is a reminder of how many clubs around the comp trade in/dfa a player who they can turn into a structurally vital player or an x factor. And all they give up is a bag of chips or nothing. Paddy McCartin and Peter Wright from this game alone. And also the lions can pick up Lincoln McCarthy

11

Lincoln Mccarthy

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.9

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

9.1

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.3

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

and Geelong pick up Stengle with these bargain deals.

Meanwhile we have some ridiculous agreement where we spend our bag of chips on the best VFL inside mid in the 2s and give them an extended run at senior level that others dont get.

 

[Mr. Walker]

If we are going after other teams defenders to meet our needs, the guy I nominate to be in charge is the guy who identified Keath as a target, not the guy who identified O’Brien.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Watching the swans vs bombers game is a reminder of how many clubs around the comp trade in/dfa a player who they can turn into a structurally vital player or an x factor. And all they give up is a bag of chips or nothing. Paddy McCartin and Peter Wright from this game alone. And also the lions can pick up Lincoln McCarthy and Geelong pick up Stengle with these bargain deals.

Meanwhile we have some ridiculous agreement where we spend our bag of chips on the best VFL inside mid in the 2s and give them an extended run at senior level that others dont get.

100% and keeping players on the list too long. Jong, Roarke to name a few.

 

[doggiesin08]

100% and keeping players on the list too long. Jong, Roarke to name a few.

We love giving multi year contracts when one would do. Why did we need to give Roarke 2 years?

 

[DognBones]

My kingdom for Fletcher Roberts.
An intelligent defender with good skills.

You don't have to give up your kingdom. He's still plying his trade at Port Melbourne and is readily available. Kicked 2 goals and had
7 disposals today in a shellacking by Casey.

 

[DognBones]

We love giving multi year contracts when one would do. Why did we need to give Roarke 2 years?

Excellent credentials: good clubman.

 

[Mofra]

We love giving multi year contracts when one would do. Why did we need to give Roarke 2 years?

He was one of our better players in the GF.
Has fallen off a cliff this year performance wise.

Our issue isn't the fringe guy on minimum salary who had two ACLs and 7 one-year deals.

Our issue is with a core group of players who won't adjust in the middle when things aren't going well, and Bailey Smith who has had a number of brain fades meaning he's not on the paddock to help right now.

 

[dergert]

So looks like Hayden McLean

2

Hayden Mclean

Age

25

Ht

197cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.3

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.2

3star

is out of the equation if we are looking at Lobb?

 

[doggies ftw]

All our defenders get eaten alive anyway.
I'd at least prefer someone with good disposal and defensive instincts over whatever the hell Gardner and O'Brien are delivering.

I also think lack of midfield pressure is overstated somewhat. Yes we don't have the most defensively minded midfield. But is it any worse than Carlton or Brisbane. We just set up poorly and have some of the dumbest defenders in the league.

I agree we need to be able to defend even when the balls coming in easy - I think the problem is our pressure on the ball carrier has been so much better in the past that it’s masked our defensive issues a bit. The way we set up the defence is manageable if we have an extreme, unsustainable amount of pressure on the ball carrier - when we get it we’re great, but let’s be honest it’s never been sustainable for a full season and it’s why we have these patchy ass inconsistent seasons.

This year through a team wide direction to avoid pressure at all costs it’s completely been found out - the players are so drilled into not getting near the player on the mark it carries over into general play too - we corrall over going the man, it drives me crazy. Yeah might work against the shit teams to shut down their options but any half decent player with a little inch of space will find a target.

Plus probably throw in a touch of the players losing their edge through idk a bad beating last year, unmotivated due to the constant whinging of the head coach? Just being overall tired in having to work harder for each goal than the rest of the league week after week? Take your pick.

But mainly the team wide direction to avoid pressure…

I really hope the footy media turns on us because we’re getting an absolute free ride for just how poor we’ve been this year. Unfortunately I think that’s the only thing that’s going to make us maybe look into what’s going on - either way nothing will change under this management, we need a fresh start whilst we’ve still got time in this list, and chopping and changing assistants isn’t going to cut it

 

[doggiesin08]

He was one of our better players in the GF.
Has fallen off a cliff this year performance wise.

Our issue isn't the fringe guy on minimum salary who had two ACLs and 7 one-year deals.

Our issue is with a core group of players who won't adjust in the middle when things aren't going well, and Bailey Smith who has had a number of brain fades meaning he's not on the paddock to help right now.

I haven’t said Roarke’s performance is our issue but our requirement to keep him on the list next year versus making that call at year-end is an issue. No one else was offering him 2 years so why did we need to? Contracts aren’t given to say “thank you”.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Don’t mind Lobb but Darcy is coming with a bullet. However who knows the club may still see Darcy as a defender.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[King Harold]

Don’t mind Lobb but Darcy is coming with a bullet. However who knows the club may still see Darcy as a defender.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

just don’t see Darcy as a AFL defender .
I am blaming Bev , not doing all we could trying to find another tall defender in the off season is just incompetent.

But at least we added another midfielder to the ranks . Never mind about the poor skills.
you can never have enough of them !

 

[doggies ftw]

Man watching other teams defences is so infuriating - watch the way Melbourne goes about it, the all work together - one key defender puts a block on and the other takes an uncontested mark.

Chalk and cheese to our method of OH **** high ball coming in, every single player in the vicinity fly and try to affect the contest, ball goes out the back no one there - this is the most amateur thing to let happen in footy, should not be happening.

Smith did a brilliant job in 2016, but it’s now been like this for multiple years - I’m not sure how you can keep your job when your line is underperforming to this extent.

Again the personnel is not great, but this is NOT a personnel issue, this is systems & coaching.

 

[MrChristo]

Yeah, this. The fact McComb has played so many consecutive games is an indictment on our team selection. He’s a walking turnover and should have no place in a side in/around the top half of the ladder.

I’m all for Lobb coming too. We might have more glaring weaknesses on our list (defensively) but this board has had countless debates about how we fill that KPF/second ruck role. Plug Lobb in and that disappears. There would be far worse players across the comp on $500k or more, that’s not an enormous salary for what he could bring as an established player.

If there isn’t a focus on improving our defensive personnel and reshaping the game plan in the off-season it’s simply negligent. It’s a glaring weakness and any good side will feast if we don’t dominate possession and territory for the vast majority of the game (which is unlikely). I suspect this will be brought into brutal focus in the coming month or so. I don’t know if some of the players mentioned in recent posts here are gettable, but personnel has to change somehow and so does our approach to game day. Imo there is no way a flag team has Gardner and O’Brien playing key defensive roles.

I'm repeating myself, so last comment;

1) Have a look at how often Williams turns it over.
In a team who struggles for goals, McComb is kicking them.
In not a fan by any means, but we've struggled for a decent wing opposite Hunter (who's coincidentally been missing for much of McComb's career...)
Rourke wasn't it.
Williams isn't it.

2) Of course we will address our "glaring" defensive issues in the summer.
Last year we were number 2 in defence and genuinely 40 minutes from winning a Premiership...
...and you could argue that was a midfield meltdown, not necessarily a backline or even system one.

I've got no idea how hard it is to change a system midyear? I really don't.
Is it stubbornness or is it actually quite difficult to do?
Or, is it neither? Just the fact that we have been missing absolutely key personnel for large chunks of the season?

I get it, it's frustrating. But the nuclear option is still a long way off.

(Fwiw, my biggest concern is lack of pace, but again, no Smith hurts bad there too.)

 

[MrChristo]

Man watching other teams defences is so infuriating - watch the way Melbourne goes about it, the all work together - one key defender puts a block on and the other takes an uncontested mark.

Chalk and cheese to our method of OH * high ball coming in, every single player in the vicinity fly and try to affect the contest, ball goes out the back no one there - this is the most amateur thing to let happen in footy, should not be happening.

Smith did a brilliant job in 2016, but it’s now been like this for multiple years - I’m not sure how you can keep your job when your line is underperforming to this extent.

Again the personnel is not great, but this is NOT a personnel issue, this is systems & coaching.

I can't help it. Sorry.

But 10 months ago our defence was amazing, and we so nearly won a Premiership.

Underperforming? Rubbish.

 

[doggies ftw]

I can't help it. Sorry.

But 10 months ago our defence was amazing, and we so nearly won a Premiership.

Underperforming? Rubbish.

Amazing? Not from my memory.

Remember we constantly have the highest inside 50 differential in the league and we dominated the middle last year. You may be right I don’t know I don’t have access to the stats but I’d be very surprised if our defensive efficiency (ie scores conceded per inside 50 %) wasn’t in the bottom half of the league.

It’s been a shambles for a long time in the way of everyone flys for the same ball, easy goals out the back, tall forwards kicking bags and if we’re caught out one on we lose. Yes if the midfield dominates it can mask that but we can’t rely on that.

Anyway even if you’re right and it was amazing 10 months ago then so what, what’s happens this year?

 

[hutchy31]

I'm repeating myself, so last comment;

1) Have a look at how often Williams turns it over.
In a team who struggles for goals, McComb is kicking them.
In not a fan by any means, but we've struggled for a decent wing opposite Hunter (who's coincidentally been missing for much of McComb's career...)
Rourke wasn't it.
Williams isn't it.

2) Of course we will address our "glaring" defensive issues in the summer.
Last year we were number 2 in defence and genuinely 40 minutes from winning a Premiership...
...and you could argue that was a midfield meltdown, not necessarily a backline or even system one.

I've got no idea how hard it is to change a system midyear? I really don't.
Is it stubbornness or is it actually quite difficult to do?
Or, is it neither? Just the fact that we have been missing absolutely key personnel for large chunks of the season?

I get it, it's frustrating. But the nuclear option is still a long way off.

(Fwiw, my biggest concern is lack of pace, but again, no Smith hurts bad there too.)

Would agree re. lack of pace, I think that really hurts us in the midfield/wing too.

Williams has been out of form and it’s concerning, but he’s comfortably better than McComb imo. He can dispose of the ball well, he’s just been poor since the GF and maybe it’ll affect him for a while. I’ve been a fan of his but on current/recent form he’s not best 22 either.

I’m not really a fan of saying we were 40 minutes from a flag, given how abhorrent that next 40 mins was. I would agree the midfield was the source, but I think this is part of the problem. Everything hinges on our midfield dominating, there doesn’t appear to be a plan B.

How about we say we are going to predominantly rely on our midfield winning, like a lot of teams would, but when they don’t (as nobody can do it 100% of the time) we have an understanding of what we need to do to stem the bleeding at the back. Maybe I’m being grossly unfair but I just expect more than what’s been dished up this year.

 

[doggies ftw]

I'm repeating myself, so last comment;

1) Have a look at how often Williams turns it over.
In a team who struggles for goals, McComb is kicking them.
In not a fan by any means, but we've struggled for a decent wing opposite Hunter (who's coincidentally been missing for much of McComb's career...)
Rourke wasn't it.
Williams isn't it.

2) Of course we will address our "glaring" defensive issues in the summer.
Last year we were number 2 in defence and genuinely 40 minutes from winning a Premiership...
...and you could argue that was a midfield meltdown, not necessarily a backline or even system one.

I've got no idea how hard it is to change a system midyear? I really don't.
Is it stubbornness or is it actually quite difficult to do?
Or, is it neither? Just the fact that we have been missing absolutely key personnel for large chunks of the season?

I get it, it's frustrating. But the nuclear option is still a long way off.

(Fwiw, my biggest concern is lack of pace, but again, no Smith hurts bad there too.)

We haven’t struggled for goals we’ve struggled at stopping them.

McCombs contributed 6 goals in those 10 games is that really anything to write home about? Since McComb came into the side McNeil has kicked 10 goals in less games including multiple as sub - if it’s goals you want then why’s McComb in over him?

Bedendo scored 1 in his first game in a demolishing, not a stretch to assume he’d contribute more than 6 if he’d be given the games.

There’s 15 players I’d have in the side over McComb but geez if he’s hanging his hat on goals, I’d say he’s given away more than 6 goals directly from turnovers so he’s probably having a net negative on our scores

 

[Dog 36]

I'm repeating myself, so last comment;

1) Have a look at how often Williams turns it over.
In a team who struggles for goals, McComb is kicking them.
In not a fan by any means, but we've struggled for a decent wing opposite Hunter (who's coincidentally been missing for much of McComb's career...)
Rourke wasn't it.
Williams isn't it.

2) Of course we will address our "glaring" defensive issues in the summer.
Last year we were number 2 in defence and genuinely 40 minutes from winning a Premiership...
...and you could argue that was a midfield meltdown, not necessarily a backline or even system one.

I've got no idea how hard it is to change a system midyear? I really don't.
Is it stubbornness or is it actually quite difficult to do?
Or, is it neither? Just the fact that we have been missing absolutely key personnel for large chunks of the season?

I get it, it's frustrating. But the nuclear option is still a long way off.

(Fwiw, my biggest concern is lack of pace, but again, no Smith hurts bad there too.)

Not sure how many times Williams has turned it over but yes he’s had a couple bad games and I think that has tainted his whole season for some.
What I will say is some of the passes Williams goes for are high risk high reward and margin of error is very high and he executes them often.

McComb can’t hit someone free 25 min away in the clear.