Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Dog 36 said:
Not sure how many times Williams has turned it over but yes he’s had a couple bad games and I think that has tainted his whole season for some.
What I will say is some of the passes Williams goes for are high risk high reward and margin of error is very high and he executes them often.

McComb can’t hit someone free 25 min away in the clear.
Click to expand...

In the last 6 seasons Bailey Williams has averaged;
3.4
5.2!
3.4
3.2
3.7
2.6
Turnovers per game.
He looks flashy. He pulls off some nice kicks. He misses quite a lot, relatively speaking.
McComb 3.5 this year, but with an extra contest win and an extra tackle.

Again, I'm not necessarily advocating McComb, but the "others" have been tried and failed, and tried and failed.

I'm not being personal with anyone here either, so sorry if I've come over all aggressive, but I hate the [lack of] logic.
We chop and change too often, yet we give duds extended runs. 🤥

We pick a "project back" rather than an AFL ready body in McComb and what changes?
Does he keep Cameron quiet?
Keith isn't getting dropped.
Gardner isn't getting dropped.
Schache has played back when required.

No way Bedendo has the tank to run up andd down a wing.
McNeil? Maybe, but again logic would dictate you'll say the same. Ie. As a small rookie list pick up he shouldn't be there.
Either way, he's never had more than 14 touches in a game.

It's been a tough year with injuries which, if anything has highlighted that AFL ready depth is enormously important.

I can't pin point why this year is so different to last, but it's not McComb, and it's not a Footscray philosophy/conspiracy.
 
Mofra said:
He was one of our better players in the GF.
Has fallen off a cliff this year performance wise.

Our issue isn't the fringe guy on minimum salary who had two ACLs and 7 one-year deals.

Our issue is with a core group of players who won't adjust in the middle when things aren't going well, and Bailey Smith who has had a number of brain fades meaning he's not on the paddock to help right now.
Click to expand...
The Bont, Libba, Macrae, Dunkley and Treloar have played a minimum of 14 games this season, The Bont the only player of that group to miss a single game. That combination alone should overmatch all but the very best midfields in the competition. The problem is that once you take the two points of difference in English with his mobility and defensive marking and Smith his endurance and pace out of the side, and replace them with lesser players it clearly isn't enough.

Bedendo was ok on the weekend and shows great promise, but other than that the cupboard has been pretty bare for most of the season due to injuries, Covid unavailability, or personal leave of the next tier of developing or senior players. Could we have played West earlier or Bedendo a few weeks ago? Sure. Wouldve it have made a fundamental difference to the erratic nature of our results if they'd replaced one or two of this boards whipping boys on the fringes of the side? I wouldn't think so.

This team lives or dies on the form and availability of 7 high quality players running through the midfield. They fire, we score freely. If they don't our sub par defensive talls with their inability to effectively kill a contest by intercepting the ball gets exposed by an avalanche of inside 50 entries. It doesn't and shouldn't hinge on whether or not one or two of the likes of Khamis, McComb, Scott, Roarke, Garcia McNeil or any other fringe player is in the side. All of whom are long shots to have sustained careers. The team as selected on Thursday was strong enough to win that game and they couldn't.

Our greatest strength has always also been our Achilles heal.
 

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Norm De Guerre said:
The Bont, Libba, Macrae, Dunkley and Treloar have played a minimum of 14 games this season, The Bont the only player of that group to miss a single game. That combination alone should overmatch all but the very best midfields in the competition. The problem is that once you take the two points of difference in English with his mobility and defensive marking and Smith his endurance and pace out of the side, and replace them with lesser players it clearly isn't enough.

Bedendo was ok on the weekend and shows great promise, but other than that the cupboard has been pretty bare for most of the season due to injuries, Covid unavailability, or personal leave of the next tier of developing or senior players. Could we have played West earlier or Bedendo a few weeks ago? Sure. Wouldve it have made a fundamental difference to the erratic nature of our results if they'd replaced one or two of this boards whipping boys on the fringes of the side? I wouldn't think so.

This team lives or dies on the form and availability of 7 high quality players running through the midfield. They fire, we score freely. If they don't our sub par defensive talls with their inability to effectively kill a contest by intercepting the ball gets exposed by an avalanche of inside 50 entries. It doesn't and shouldn't hinge on whether or not one or two of the likes of Khamis, McComb, Scott, Roarke, Garcia McNeil or any other fringe player is in the side. All of whom are long shots to have sustained careers. The team as selected on Thursday was strong enough to win that game and they couldn't.

Our greatest strength has always also been our Achilles heal.
Click to expand...
We’ve lost 4 games this year with all of those available though - and in all of those games we won the inside 50s, except Melbourne where we lost by 2.

Issues are so much deeper than not having them available - team selection on the lower end is just one part of the problem, who plays out of Roarke, McComb, McNeil etc irrelevant, but when any of those guys are picked ahead of a properly structured football side, that’s then a major issue.

Of course the biggest problems run a lot deeper than availability of our top 7 or the revolving door of mediocrity in the last few spots in the side - but it doesn’t mean it’s not an issue, and of course it gets discussed more because it’s an issue which is a lot easier to bring up, talk about & rectify, rather than delving deep in the intricacies of why our game plan ****ing sucks against good sides
 
Moving Astro to another club would be a disaster, he’d end up either coleman medallist or AA CHB with a flag or two under his belt.

Hes a required player IMO
 
MrChristo said:
In the last 6 seasons Bailey Williams has averaged;
3.4
5.2!
3.4
3.2
3.7
2.6
Turnovers per game.
He looks flashy. He pulls off some nice kicks. He misses quite a lot, relatively speaking.
McComb 3.5 this year, but with an extra contest win and an extra tackle.

Again, I'm not necessarily advocating McComb, but the "others" have been tried and failed, and tried and failed.

I'm not being personal with anyone here either, so sorry if I've come over all aggressive, but I hate the [lack of] logic.
We chop and change too often, yet we give duds extended runs. 🤥

We pick a "project back" rather than an AFL ready body in McComb and what changes?
Does he keep Cameron quiet?
Keith isn't getting dropped.
Gardner isn't getting dropped.
Schache has played back when required.

No way Bedendo has the tank to run up andd down a wing.
McNeil? Maybe, but again logic would dictate you'll say the same. Ie. As a small rookie list pick up he shouldn't be there.
Either way, he's never had more than 14 touches in a game.

It's been a tough year with injuries which, if anything has highlighted that AFL ready depth is enormously important.

I can't pin point why this year is so different to last, but it's not McComb, and it's not a Footscray philosophy/conspiracy.
Click to expand...
Bailey Williams 24 years old
Kicking efficiency 64%
Disposal efficiency 75%
Turnovers 2.6
Metres gained 285
One percenters 2
Tackles 1.4
Goals 5
Behinds 7

McNiel 20 years old
Kicking efficiency 73%
Disposal efficiency 76%
Turnovers 2.2
Metres gained 130
One percenters 0.7
Tackles 3.5
Goals 10
Behinds 4

McComb 26 years old
Kicking efficiency 55%
Disposal efficiency 64%
Turnovers 3.5
Metres gained 166
One percenters 0.9
Tackles 2.1
Goals 6
Behinds 5

Garcia 21 years old (2021 season)
Kicking efficiency 63%
Disposal efficiency 67%
Turnovers 2.4
Metres gained 156
One percenters 0.8
Tackles 1.9
Goals 4
Behinds 3

You can draw it any way McComb is a turnover merchant.

His disposal is worse than Garcia who everyone has concerns about his kicking holding him back yet he’s superior to McComb. More turnovers worse disposal and minimally ahead in metres gained and one percenters.

You talk about goals, Williams has had more shots at goal and only played wing a few times. McNiel has more goals from less opportunity. So how is he giving us more goals exactly?

This guy is 26 years old his disposal is terrible, McNiel and Garcia have more upside it’s absolutely laughable. Williams on the wing offers more and you use average turnovers per season to say he is better than Williams with no acknowledgement that Williams played defence in that time where generally you are under pressure when using the ball. Bailey dale has howlers coming out of defence as does Caleb Daniel.

Bailey dale averages 4 turnovers a game this year does that make him flashy but misses quite a lot? Caleb average 3 turnovers does that make him the same as McComb in skill?

McComb can’t hit easy targets. Williams like dale and Daniel look flashy and turn it over because they attempt harder kicks and Daniel and Williams still turn it over less than McComb doing that and dale turns it over slightly more 0.5 doing that but having almost double the disposals.

A 26 year old VFL standard player isn’t magically taking a giant leap forward to be AFL quality regardless of how many games he is gifted
 
Our list at this point in time has a couple of strengths.

Elite attacking half backs. Yes they are questionable at defending but Daniel dale and Richards is an elite trio with a combination of skill, speed and penetration.

We have one of the deepest midfields in the comp with a ruck that is growing into the role at a rapid rate this year.

We then have a dominate forward (Naughton) an emerging small forward (Weightman) two high quality kpfs coming though but not there yet (JUH and Darcy). Bruce to return next year from his knee reco and should be good for 30+ goals. Potentially Lobb as a ruck forward capable of 30 goals.

Our backline is the issue lacking quality KPDs and lockdown small defenders.

If we aren’t bringing in a KPD and lockdown small defender along with Lobb then we only really have one other option to do.

That’s to be an aggressively attacking team and look for a high speed pressure small forward to help lock the ball in our forward half, and get a wingmen with speed to compliment Hunter on the other wing, also invest in a bloody goal kicking coach.

Results in an elite midfield with a quality ruck and second ruck. Elite half backs to drive the ball forward and a dangerous forward line in the air and at ground level. Clearly we could get found out still in defence but should have more opportunities than the opposition every game and apart from bad finishing (yes we are known for it) we should be kicking winnable scores each week.

But generally defence wins premierships not attack.
 
I'd be all for launching hard for Ben McKay.

3 disposals tonight. He's wasted in norfs forward line.
 
doggies ftw said:
Amazing? Not from my memory.

Remember we constantly have the highest inside 50 differential in the league and we dominated the middle last year. You may be right I don’t know I don’t have access to the stats but I’d be very surprised if our defensive efficiency (ie scores conceded per inside 50 %) wasn’t in the bottom half of the league.

It’s been a shambles for a long time in the way of everyone flys for the same ball, easy goals out the back, tall forwards kicking bags and if we’re caught out one on we lose. Yes if the midfield dominates it can mask that but we can’t rely on that.

Anyway even if you’re right and it was amazing 10 months ago then so what, what’s happens this year?
Click to expand...
We were ranked 6th for oppo scores per i50 conceded last year.

This year we're ranked 12th.
 
immortalmike said:
My kingdom for Fletcher Roberts.
An intelligent defender with good skills.
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Dog 36 said:
I have heard that FR was the perfect teammate and clubman.
Minimal fuss and great person to have as a teammate and around the club.

Glad he was part of 2016
Click to expand...
Feel like Fletcher Roberts was actually what the club think Gardner is. Good honest defender that you should eek 100-ish games from.

He’d of been much more serviceable than Gardner.
 

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Norm De Guerre said:
Im crossing my fingers that Dunkley chooses to stay*.

Im not sure that essentially turning Dunkley into Lobb is going to do much to address the fundamental issue that we have.

Sam Power will find a way.

*Not literally as that seems a bit painful and pointless.
Click to expand...
Dunkley into Lobb opens up many more options in Fossie's headline and banner comp 🤣
 
I don't get the Lobb interest. He's a spud who plays 2 good games a year. We've got Darcy coming through who could be better.

We need to be targeting guys from the best team with the most salary cap pressure. This is Melbourne. Should be looking at Tom Sparrow if he's available. I reckon this guy's about to explode and would be a good Dunkley replacement.
 
Lex22 said:
Feel like Fletcher Roberts was actually what the club think Gardner is. Good honest defender that you should eek 100-ish games from.

He’d of been much more serviceable than Gardner.
Click to expand...
I quite liked him but I think we're rewriting history a little about Roberts' ability. He played some decent games but really wasn't on much of a different level for almost all of his career to what Gardner is. Gardner is definitely in a slump right now but there's a reason why Roberts played so much VFL.
 
Yeah Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling are a modern day Ryan Gardner and Zaine Cordy.

Nostalgia does wonderful things and if we won the flag last year we’d be saying the same things about which ever two defenders played.

Neither were best 22 consistently throughout their careers despite being great citizens.
 
Joel Hamling was able to stay in Freos best 22 when fit, and would have always stayed in ours from then on if he didn’t leave. I think he was underrated after he left us.
 

Interesting that Robbo mentioned this in his tackle article today............. can't disagree.​

LET THE BAKERS BAKE​

POWER struggles between coaches and recruiters are common. As a rule, coaches are fixated on the short-term and recruiters the long-term. Suspect Billy Gowers and Robbie McComb are examples of recruiters getting overruled at the Bulldogs. Gowers played 33 games and no finals while McComb from all reports is a quality person and star VFL player. But he also turns 27 this year and doesn’t appear to be the sort of player who will take the Dogs to the promised land. Teenage debutant Dominic Bedendo on the other hand, taken with a late pick in 2020, showed plenty of promise, particularly in the first half. All recruiters will tell you that’s the wiser investment.
 
Bulldog in Kiev said:

Interesting that Robbo mentioned this in his tackle article today............. can't disagree.​

LET THE BAKERS BAKE​

POWER struggles between coaches and recruiters are common. As a rule, coaches are fixated on the short-term and recruiters the long-term. Suspect Billy Gowers and Robbie McComb are examples of recruiters getting overruled at the Bulldogs. Gowers played 33 games and no finals while McComb from all reports is a quality person and star VFL player. But he also turns 27 this year and doesn’t appear to be the sort of player who will take the Dogs to the promised land. Teenage debutant Dominic Bedendo on the other hand, taken with a late pick in 2020, showed plenty of promise, particularly in the first half. All recruiters will tell you that’s the wiser investment.
Click to expand...
Guarantees that McComb get a new 2 year deal to prove who is smartest person in the room
 
Bulldog in Kiev said:

Interesting that Robbo mentioned this in his tackle article today............. can't disagree.​

LET THE BAKERS BAKE​

POWER struggles between coaches and recruiters are common. As a rule, coaches are fixated on the short-term and recruiters the long-term. Suspect Billy Gowers and Robbie McComb are examples of recruiters getting overruled at the Bulldogs. Gowers played 33 games and no finals while McComb from all reports is a quality person and star VFL player. But he also turns 27 this year and doesn’t appear to be the sort of player who will take the Dogs to the promised land. Teenage debutant Dominic Bedendo on the other hand, taken with a late pick in 2020, showed plenty of promise, particularly in the first half. All recruiters will tell you that’s the wiser investment.
Click to expand...
Anthony Scott was a bees dick away from playing in a grand final last year so whilst I generally agree with what Robbo is saying, it's not exactly black and white is it?
 
Doggies_13 said:
Our list at this point in time has a couple of strengths.

Elite attacking half backs. Yes they are questionable at defending but Daniel dale and Richards is an elite trio with a combination of skill, speed and penetration.

We have one of the deepest midfields in the comp with a ruck that is growing into the role at a rapid rate this year.

We then have a dominate forward (Naughton) an emerging small forward (Weightman) two high quality kpfs coming though but not there yet (JUH and Darcy). Bruce to return next year from his knee reco and should be good for 30+ goals. Potentially Lobb as a ruck forward capable of 30 goals.

Our backline is the issue lacking quality KPDs and lockdown small defenders.

If we aren’t bringing in a KPD and lockdown small defender along with Lobb then we only really have one other option to do.

That’s to be an aggressively attacking team and look for a high speed pressure small forward to help lock the ball in our forward half, and get a wingmen with speed to compliment Hunter on the other wing, also invest in a bloody goal kicking coach.

Results in an elite midfield with a quality ruck and second ruck. Elite half backs to drive the ball forward and a dangerous forward line in the air and at ground level. Clearly we could get found out still in defence but should have more opportunities than the opposition every game and apart from bad finishing (yes we are known for it) we should be kicking winnable scores each week.

But generally defence wins premierships not attack.
Click to expand...
No one on here has mentioned that McComb did a run with role on Neale at times, was ok, im not a fan, but what about him long term as a tagger?

My 2 cents on Williams is that his turnovers are down this year but thats due to positional change and playing more conservative. i prefer him when he was trying the corridor passes and taking the game on.
 
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