Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Struggle]

I'd be going for a decent clean out and attempt to get a few decent picks through the door.

The bolded I would be moving on in the hope of getting some fresh faces through the door.

English, bont, naughton and Smith would be the only non-negotiables if another club came knocking for a player with the right price.

Darcy. Richards. Weightman

 

[olimauldon]

Hypothetical but say bevo gets replaced by a new coach at the end of the year. If you're the new coach where do you evaluate our window?

Would you clear the list out and reset for a push in 3-4 years or do you keep topping up bevos list to remain competitive?

Coaching candidates would be licking their lips at the prospect of taking over the reigns. Imagine a new coach coming in and having Naughton, Bont, JUH, Darcy, English etc to work with. Not many incoming head coaches would have that sort of talent already on the list

 

[BEaston]

I unironically enjoy their products. The naan bread is quite good as far as microwavable naan is concerned.

Cleanliness of microwave dependent.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

We have a lot of players out of contract at the end of the year and I’d expect a big turnover. Out of those players:

Delist/Retire - McLean, O’Brien, Duryea, McComb, Roarke, Hannan, Sweet, Crozier, Keath. Loved what McLean, Duryea, Ceozier and Keath have done for the club but none fill a purpose going forward

1 Year Deal - Vandermeer, McNeil, Bruce, Bedendo, Buku, Scott

2 Year Deals - Baker, Williams, Arthur Jones

Work on the extension for English asap and front-load it

Agree with this so much. It's unfortunate but does appear Duryea is done. I am not sure I'd be getting rid of both Crozier and O'Brien given they're among our very few interceptors, but recruiting Doedee would sort that out.

Probably the only things I'd change here would be not giving Williams 2 years, and I'd probably extend Keath by a year with the assumption he's cheap depth (basically covering Gardner when needed, especially if Buss isn't ready).

What would you do with Raak? Personally I haven't seen anything that suggests he'll contribute meaningfully in the seniors, so he'd be a delisting candidate unless we're afraid of cutting too deep.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Keen to load up in this draft, get a decent amount of young talent in.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Dogs5416]

We have a lot of players out of contract at the end of the year and I’d expect a big turnover. Out of those players:

Delist/Retire - McLean, O’Brien, Duryea, McComb, Roarke, Hannan, Sweet, Crozier, Keath. Loved what McLean, Duryea, Ceozier and Keath have done for the club but none fill a purpose going forward

1 Year Deal - Vandermeer, McNeil, Bruce, Bedendo, Buku, Scott

2 Year Deals - Baker, Williams, Arthur Jones

Work on the extension for English asap and front-load it

You can’t delist 9 in one year. You need to make a minimum of 3 list changes each year to allow you to draft/upgrade 3 players.

So which 3 players are you delisted/retiring/trading at the end of 2024 to allow 3 additions to the list? Would be difficult if you cut all the fat in one year!

Sweet is a back up ruck and needs to stay in case English is injured. I would give Keath and Duryea 1 year contracts.

I would delist McComb, Roarke, 1 of crozier/TOB and McLean and look to trade West. 5 changes to refresh list and then look at Keath and Bruce to retire at end of 2024. Than just need to delist 1 or 2 players at end of 2024.

 

[Mofra]

Agree with this so much. It's unfortunate but does appear Duryea is done. I am not sure I'd be getting rid of both Crozier and O'Brien given they're among our very few interceptors, but recruiting Doedee would sort that out.

TBH I thought Crozier was lucky to be contracted for this year but has played 'ok' without being spectacular.
O'Brien is also 'just ok' but can't roll onto a no 2 forward when required (as Marshall showed late in the game).

I'd be more than willing to head into next season with Doedee as our main interceptor and a developing Busslinger as depth while he gets senior gametime into him (at any level), and release both those guys. Fantastic people off the field by all accounts, but footy is brutal.

 

[Mofra]

You can do both. You stop playing our same bottom six and find out about guys like Cleary, Buku, Bedendo etc. But also chase the Dodee types to fill a need.

Buks and Bedendo get better on here the longer they don't play.
Cleary is probably one good VFL game away from promotion. Has been solid so far and can actually kick. Still developing so has plenty of time

 

[doggies ftw]

Buks and Bedendo get better on here the longer they don't play.
Cleary is probably one good VFL game away from promotion. Has been solid so far and can actually kick. Still developing so has plenty of time

Do you have even one post that claims them to be the answer? People rightfully think they deserve a go but no one thinks they’re going to solve all our issues BUT they should be played every game possible at this stage over the battlers who get first choice.

Obviously Bedendo injured currently but point still stands

 

[Mofra]

Do you have even one post that claims them to be the answer? People rightfully think they deserve a go but no one thinks they’re going to solve all our issues BUT they should be played every game possible at this stage over the battlers who get first choice.

Obviously Bedendo injured currently but point still stands

I'm not ready to burn the place down yet, and I see Cleary as a far more likely (and deserving chance) of playing in the near future. TBH I was surprised Duryea was selected last round (and based off his VFL form, I wouldn't have had him in).
If you take issue with that, cool. That's your opinion, mine differs, the whole point of having this forum.

 

[doggies ftw]

I'm not ready to burn the place down yet, and I see Cleary as a far more likely (and deserving chance) of playing in the near future. TBH I was surprised Duryea was selected last round (and based off his VFL form, I wouldn't have had him in).
If you take issue with that, cool. That's your opinion, mine differs, the whole point of having this forum.

I did not take issue with your ‘opinion’, your post was literally having a dig at others opinions ie “Buku & Bedendo get better around here without playing” lol

 

[Nat Fyfe]

We've entered the year with the second oldest list (marginally behind Geelong), but that average quite easily drops by cutting out players who no longer meaningfully contribute. Duryea (32 this year), Keath (31), Crozier (29), Hannan (29), O'Brien (29), McComb (27), McLean (27), R. Smith (27 this year), and Williams (26 this year) all push the average age upwards, arguably without improving our side. There's also Bruce (31 this year), Lobb (30) and Scott (28) who would be bottom of the best 22 types.

We're seeing other clubs looking revitalized with fresh talent straight out of the 2022 draft. Sheezel, Michalanney, Ashcroft, Ginbey and Phillipou are all producing some great footy in their first seasons (Sheezel and Michalanney in particular are looking outstanding). There's also Hollands, Mackenzie, Humphrey, Hewett and Long all playing roles in their sides too, albeit for shit teams.

It's great seeing some of the talent we've picked up in recent years, but we really have no one playing major roles who was drafted after Weightman in 2019. JUH pops up for a cameo appearance every few weeks, and it's understandable that KPFs take time, but otherwise that's no one from the last 3 drafts other than fringe depth players in Scott, Jones and McComb. Really would like to see us picking up some ready made top end talent this year to give this list a bit of a refresh. Way too many blokes pushing 30 who are lucky to even be on a list, yet are consistently being selected

 

[adogsfan5]

We could have Curnow, Papley and Jezza Cameron inside our 50 with Naughton and we’d still struggle to score.

Nothing is going to change until we change our delivery and forward leading patterns.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Nothing is going to change until we change our delivery and forward leading patterns.

Or change the forwards coach and senior coach.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Buks and Bedendo get better on here the longer they don't play.
Cleary is probably one good VFL game away from promotion. Has been solid so far and can actually kick. Still developing so has plenty of time

I’m just sick of the same mature age players letting us down. If these younger guys play and arent any better or need more time I can wear that.

 

[Mofra]

I did not take issue with your ‘opinion’, your post was literally having a dig at others opinions ie “Buku & Bedendo get better around here without playing” lol

It's something that has been noted a lot over the years, and not just on the Bulldogs board either.
'Absence makes the heart grow fonder'

 

[Mofra]

I’m just sick of the same mature age players letting us down. If these younger guys play and arent any better or need more time I can wear that.

Cleary for Duryea? As stated earlier I'm not sure Dureyea deserved promotion.
McNeill has played some decent roles in the past and has played that thankless HF pressure role too.

 

[Euku]

Obrien and Hannan have both never played a good game for us how Maclean wasn't put in from the start of the game in a wet slog of a game after how shit Hannan was every week and Maclean earned the spot with 50 possessions unbelievable, obrien over buku Gardiner or even cleary or even Busslinger he cost us 4 goals last night , there were others that didn't play great but they didn't play worse or even directly give the other team goals and have actually played a good game in their career,

Anyone on the list instead of mccomb Hannan and obrien please please please please please please please please please

 

[geoffjennings79]

Obrien and Hannan have both never played a good game for us how Maclean wasn't put in from the start of the game in a wet slog of a game after how s**t Hannan was every week and Maclean earned the spot with 50 possessions unbelievable, obrien over buku Gardiner or even cleary or even Busslinger he cost us 4 goals last night , there were others that didn't play great but they didn't play worse or even directly give the other team goals and have actually played a good game in their career,

Anyone on the list instead of mccomb Hannan and obrien please please please please please please please please please

You do realise O'Brien was solid as the third tall until Bruce had to be subbed out? O'Brien, like Hargrave before him, is not a KPD, yet had to play as one to cover for Bruce.

 

[dogwatch]

You can’t delist 9 in one year. You need to make a minimum of 3 list changes each year to allow you to draft/upgrade 3 players.

So which 3 players are you delisted/retiring/trading at the end of 2024 to allow 3 additions to the list? Would be difficult if you cut all the fat in one year!

...

It's not just the question of working out who to cut in 2024.

If you de-list 9 in one year you run out of quality in the draft and the trade market well before you've filled all your spots. You can hope to fill 6 or maybe 7 spots with reasonable prospects but the last few are going to be real speculators.

Best to hold a few spots for the following year when you won't have to go as deep into the unknown at the bottom end of the draft.

 

[Euku]

You do realise O'Brien was solid as the third tall until Bruce had to be subbed out? O'Brien, like Hargrave before him, is not a KPD, yet had to play as one to cover for Bruce.

Obrien is heart in mouth everytime he touches the ball has never played a good game had a few poor moments early was okay in the middle was poor in the last okay he was on Marshall no fight in the contest though then turns it over (even though game was pretty lost) with a very poor kick and decision making to finish it off, he has not developed and , hell darcy is more athletic and would have been a better 3rd tall option

Please please please no obrien mccomb Hannan in a dogs jumper ever again , this would be a massive move forward in a list cleanout

 

[_Cerberus_]

It's not just the question of working out who to cut in 2024.

If you de-list 9 in one year you run out of quality in the draft and the trade market well before you've filled all your spots. You can hope to fill 6 or maybe 7 spots with reasonable prospects but the last few are going to be real speculators.

Best to hold a few spots for the following year when you won't have to go as deep into the unknown at the bottom end of the draft.

As it stands as of the end of this round, we have picks 5, 11 and 30. Then a bunch of picks in the 60s and 70s. (I'd package up 30 and the late picks to move up with a team looking for points in a well rated draft)

You definitely want to draft someone with the first three picks. The picks in the 60s onwards will be rookie level picks, with low odds to succeed at AFL level long term.

You will be replacing "fringe players" with more "fringe players" if we cut to deep at once. The only difference is the new guys will be skinny, undersized and inexperienced. I would rather keep some of the current ones for an extra year as they are more AFL ready. If our depth becomes 18 year old bean poles selected at pick 60, we are stuffed.

It all depends on the depth of the upcoming drafts and who is available free agent and trade wise as well. The next two drafts are looking at being very solid and deep ones. We will also have a few retirements in the next couple of years to plan for as well. So we may have to hold on to some bottom depth players for a little longer than some here will like. I reckon cutting around 4 players a year over the next three seasons is a healthy number.

I'd target Doedee, and hit the draft with 3 picks this year. Our cupboard is bare of young talent to take over from the older brigade.

 

[Euku]

We've entered the year with the second oldest list (marginally behind Geelong), but that average quite easily drops by cutting out players who no longer meaningfully contribute. Duryea (32 this year), Keath (31), Crozier (29), Hannan (29), O'Brien (29), McComb (27), McLean (27), R. Smith (27 this year), and Williams (26 this year) all push the average age upwards, arguably without improving our side. There's also Bruce (31 this year), Lobb (30) and Scott (28) who would be bottom of the best 22 types.

We're seeing other clubs looking revitalized with fresh talent straight out of the 2022 draft. Sheezel, Michalanney, Ashcroft, Ginbey and Phillipou are all producing some great footy in their first seasons (Sheezel and Michalanney in particular are looking outstanding). There's also Hollands, Mackenzie, Humphrey, Hewett and Long all playing roles in their sides too, albeit for s**t teams.

It's great seeing some of the talent we've picked up in recent years, but we really have no one playing major roles who was drafted after Weightman in 2019. JUH pops up for a cameo appearance every few weeks, and it's understandable that KPFs take time, but otherwise that's no one from the last 3 drafts other than fringe depth players in Scott, Jones and McComb. Really would like to see us picking up some ready made top end talent this year to give this list a bit of a refresh. Way too many blokes pushing 30 who are lucky to even be on a list, yet are consistently being selected

I actually agree with most of this keep maclean crozier keath Williams jones Bruce lobb from the players you mentioned

 

[goodcop badcop]

It's not just the question of working out who to cut in 2024.

If you de-list 9 in one year you run out of quality in the draft and the trade market well before you've filled all your spots. You can hope to fill 6 or maybe 7 spots with reasonable prospects but the last few are going to be real speculators.

Best to hold a few spots for the following year when you won't have to go as deep into the unknown at the bottom end of the draft.

Sometimes you have to be bold though.

In 2014 we made twelve list changes. With those changes we ended up with six premiership players and a future All Australian gun that didn't play in the premiership year. Boyd, Hamling, Biggs, McLean, Daniel, Cordy and Dale. If we didn't make all those changes maybe we don't end up with one or two of those guys and the premiership never happens.

We really are at a stage where we need more of a list turnover and an injection of youth in the side. Not saying we get rid of 12 players, but we do need a good list turnover.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Looking on the bright side, we have a good draft hand in a good draft year.

We also have reportedly some surplus to lure a player or two. Hopefully Doedee, but also a kid that can’t break into a strong midfield somewhere with a couple of years development, I.e. a Lipinski type deal.