Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[True Dog]

I assume we picked up Harvey Gallagher for this reason. I think he’s coming off the injury list, excited to see what he can do.

I watched him for a qtr when he played for Footscray against North in a practice game after our seniors. He’s smaller than I thought however has some good attributes. Injuries have hampered his preseason and season thus far.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I'm definitely a fan of those two. I'm watching some Koltyn Tholstrup highlights too and enjoying his bull attributes.

I quite like Tholstrup, not as excited by McAuliffe but I do need to see more of him. If we have a 2nd rounder left, I like the look of Cooper Simpson. I quite like Logan Evans as a Morris/Wood replacement also.

 

[Mofra]

I assume we picked up Harvey Gallagher for this reason. I think he’s coming off the injury list, excited to see what he can do.

I doubt he's going to be ready to go from round 1 next year, and I don't expect Duryea to go around again.
Fortunately Cleary looks like he can handle smalls & mediums, not sure how he'd cover the super quick smalls though.

 

[doggiesin08]

I doubt he's going to be ready to go from round 1 next year, and I don't expect Duryea to go around again.
Fortunately Cleary looks like he can handle smalls & mediums, not sure how he'd cover the super quick smalls though.

Not sure where he's been playing in the VFL but I think Vandermeer should be tried in the back pocket. I don't see a sport for him with give:

1. The desire to play 3 tall forwards plus a resting / extra mid (Macrae of Daniel) starting on the HFF meaning there re fewer spots for smalls.
2. Weightman, Jones, McNeil probably ahead of him for the small forward role at the moment.
3. Clarke developing, Bedendo potentially a combination HFF/wing and rumours that we're interested in Kai Lohmann.

 

[dergert]

Not sure where he's been playing in the VFL but I think Vandermeer should be tried in the back pocket. I don't see a sport for him with give:

1. The desire to play 3 tall forwards plus a resting / extra mid (Macrae of Daniel) starting on the HFF meaning there re fewer spots for smalls.
2. Weightman, Jones, McNeil probably ahead of him for the small forward role at the moment.
3. Clarke developing, Bedendo potentially a combination HFF/wing and rumours that we're interested in Kai Lohmann.

We had put VDM in defence in the last qtr in the VFL on the weekend.

Surprise surprise he won two contested balls and looked better there than up forward.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

We had put VDM in defence in the last qtr in the VFL on the weekend.

Surprise surprise he won two contested balls and looked better there than up forward.

When we drafted him I was convinced the plan was to be a long term JJ replacement. I’m glad to see us putting him in defence because he never seemed suited to a forward line role

 

[mattwa]

I don't think he will make it. Hope he does but I'd be say his chances are slim

 

[doggies ftw]

When we drafted him I was convinced the plan was to be a long term JJ replacement. I’m glad to see us putting him in defence because he never seemed suited to a forward line role

he was a pretty exciting half back flanker when we drafted him

Draft prospect: Laitham Vandermeer

I never really saw the forward move happening but admittedly he started pretty well there, I just think his style is suited to half back though - you can see in his draft profile (and it’s carried through to his AFL career) he’s just so direct, I don’t think there’s a single play in there where he kicks backwards or handballs backwards it’s always direct and attacking. I think that style is always suited to half back IMO.

I hope we settle him there and he gets a decent run at it

 

[adogsfan5]

Where are West and Bedendo at? How are they going at VFL level?

 

[doggies ftw]

Where are West and Bedendo at? How are they going at VFL level?

Bedendo hasn’t played a game all year and is still a month off - write off year

 

[Bulldogs85]

Bedendo hasn’t played a game all year and is still a month off - write off year

He still has time to play some VFL

 

[Mofra]

Not sure where he's been playing in the VFL but I think Vandermeer should be tried in the back pocket. I don't see a sport for him with give:

1. The desire to play 3 tall forwards plus a resting / extra mid (Macrae of Daniel) starting on the HFF meaning there re fewer spots for smalls.
2. Weightman, Jones, McNeil probably ahead of him for the small forward role at the moment.
3. Clarke developing, Bedendo potentially a combination HFF/wing and rumours that we're interested in Kai Lohmann.

He's played off the HBF the last two games I've seen. Still attacks the ball really hard, I worry about how clean he is with his hands sometimes but he has a healthy dose of mongrel so he could develop as a stopper there

 

[ringa5]

So to all the talent watchers.Who do the dogs take in the mid season draft.Other than Footscray who are terrible.Around the country who is worth a list spot ? I say a tall fast midfielder.

 

[Unorth]

VDM has been a manic pressure forward but AJ and Cody are so much cleaner. McNeil is good in that role too. Eventually hopefully Clarke too. We probably put VDM in the forward line out of necessity which we appear to have covered now (maybe not completely but enough), not surprised he’s gone to the backline.

In a pinch if we need a pressure forward we can always throw him up there and more or less know what to expect. Interesting to see how he goes from here.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Teal but very likely to be gone.

So to all the talent watchers.Who do the dogs take in the mid season draft.Other than Footscray who are terrible.Around the country who is worth a list spot ? I say a tall fast midfielder.

 

[flipper83]

Teal but very likely to be gone.

I second Teal. Interestingly I don't think he's been mentioned much in the media tidbits about who clubs are looking at so he might be available.
I'd also look at Kobe Ryan as a potential future Libba replacement.
Would have also considered woodcock although Arthur Jones' emergence has made him much less of a positional need.

 

[weltschmerz]

Thirding Luke Teal. Hopefully the clubs ahead of us prioritise talls.

 

[TiAn_]

I liked Jedd Longmire from the Young Guns v Vic Metro game, as an inside mid. John’s nephew, but playing for Collingwood VFL. Haven’t seen him at all other than that game so not sure if he’s got the wheels for AFL.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I do understand attributionally why people like VDM off half back. But the biggest limiting factor for his form forward of the ball is that he makes awful decisions under pressure and turns the ball over at will. I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of those turnovers happening in the back half of the ground.

 

[Here we go dogs]

Think our main focus this off season is stocking up our contested mids and wing roles

Wild that top 5 midfield has Williams and Baker as our starting wings

Agree with this, but any contested mid needs to have a genuine second position

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I do understand attributionally why people like VDM off half back. But the biggest limiting factor for his form forward of the ball is that he makes awful decisions under pressure and turns the ball over at will. I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of those turnovers happening in the back half of the ground.

Not as much pressure in the back half of the ground. Not suggesting the move would work, but he’d have a lot more time to make better decisions. As would any other player making the switch.

 

[geoffjennings79]

He's played off the HBF the last two games I've seen. Still attacks the ball really hard, I worry about how clean he is with his hands sometimes but he has a healthy dose of mongrel so he could develop as a stopper there

I do understand attributionally why people like VDM off half back. But the biggest limiting factor for his form forward of the ball is that he makes awful decisions under pressure and turns the ball over at will. I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of those turnovers happening in the back half of the ground.

While Matty Boyd was slightly more reliable by foot, there were concerns when Beveridge first moved him to HB with his disposal reliability. I know Boyd had experience on his side, but I think he really focussed on the disposal part of his game to eliminate a degree of risk. If VDM, or Rohan Smith and other coaches, can work on that aspect, we MAY have another success story. Also with more experience comes more opportunity to deal with pressure. Dale, while a significantly better kick, had question marks over his intestinal fortitude on this board both before and after being moved back, but he has adapted well. If they're playing VDM across half back at VFL level, hopefully there's incremental improvement and he can re-invent himself... into what he was when drafted!

Edit: sorry took too long to write my post, and saw CB posted something similar.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I do understand attributionally why people like VDM off half back. But the biggest limiting factor for his form forward of the ball is that he makes awful decisions under pressure and turns the ball over at will. I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of those turnovers happening in the back half of the ground.

To this point in time he's been another in a long line of mids masquerading as small forwards that we have tried to shoehorn into the position over the years. Just ask West, Garcia or any number of others who've been tried and mostly failed to make the jump.

I don't think it's an accident that we pushed Aurther Jones into the side before his form deserved it. Nor was it an accident that we picked up Clarke last year. That Jones looks to be a success and the team looks the better for it is an indictment on the coaching/list-management/recruiting staff who until very recently saw small forwards as being of lesser priority to stockpiling mids who were mouldable.

They seemed to do this in the hope of the player miraculously picking up a skillset that is mostly foreign to them. I actually pity the poor bastards who've had to endure this turn into the poverty corner of life in a forward pock/flank. All in the hope of it being a stepping stone to where they played as a junior where they truly can shine!

NVDM career will rest on him being able to string games together in the midfield. Or it won't.

The problem that mid tier/fringe guys like him face as the career clock starts ticking ever faster. Is that there is an absolute logjam of established guns in front of them.

Its a cruel career killing game they play.

 

[dogwatch]

To this point in time he's been another in a long line of mids masquerading as small forwards that we have tried to shoehorn into the position over the years. Just ask West, Garcia or any number of others who've been tried and mostly failed to make the jump.

I don't think it's an accident that we pushed Aurther Jones into the side before his form deserved it. Nor was it an accident that we picked up Clarke last year. That Jones looks to be a success and the team looks the better for it is an indictment on the coaching/list-management/recruiting staff who until very recently saw small forwards as being of lesser priority to stockpiling mids who were mouldable.

They seemed to do this in the hope of the player miraculously picking up a skillset that is mostly foreign to them. I actually pity the poor bastards who've had to endure this turn into the poverty corner of life in a forward pock/flank. All in the hope of it being a stepping stone to where they played as a junior where they truly can shine!

NVDM career will rest on him being able to string games together in the midfield. Or it won't.

The problem that mid tier/fringe guys like him face as the career clock starts ticking ever faster. Is that there is an absolute logjam of established guns in front of them.

Its a cruel career killing game they play.

I think that's a bit harsh on list management and even MC, Norm.

Before we got Jones we used a first rounder to pick Cody Weightman as a specialist forward (2019). Perhaps we can be critical of the recruiters for not spotting that he preferred to fly for marks than wait for the crumbs but he does provide pressure which was the other half of the small forward deficiency we wanted fixed. Also we were supposed to have been keen on Kysaiah Pickett as a genuine crumber/pressure forward that year but Melbourne got in first. In 2020 we only had a Hail Mary pick (55) after we'd used all our assets to match the #1 bid on JUH. We took Bedendo to fill what was - and remains - a genuine list need as a winger/utility.

Before Weightman (2018) the recruiters could hardly be blamed for matching a Rhylee West bid at 26. Baz was our first rounder that year filling a genuine need. After West we picked Vandermeer (37) then Cavarra (45). Cavarra wasn't a success as it turned out, but he'd been a very good goalscorer in the VFL (66 goals in 40 games over 2017-18) and there were probably limited options at that pick anyway.

As for playing midfielders at HFF, that has been a pathway for midfielders for decades. Very few get thrown straight in the guts as an 18yo, except the very top end of players like Walsh, Rowell and maybe Baz.

Sometimes as MC you've just got to work with what you've got. No club has a perfectly balanced list. And sometimes as a player you have to put your head down and make the most of the few opportunities that come your way. VDM's been a bit unfortunate in not getting any continuity due to soft tissue injuries but as you say it can be a cruel game.

Yes, I know it's rare for me to defend MC, but there you go.

 

[stefoid]

I don't think he will make it. Hope he does but I'd be say his chances are slim

not if he continues to rip his hamstrings up twice a year