Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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I really don’t understand the restraint of trade argument, we’re talking uncontracted players here. Obviously contracted players can turn down a trade, or work with their club to find a trade that suits them, once your contracts done you lose your ability to negotiate your position. Players have way too much sway in nominating their chosen clubs who then lowball their offers, once you get to FA then you have done your ’service’ and can choose where you like.

Don’t like it find a new job, yeah the AFL needs the players obviously but they’re not bigger than the game, there will be an endless supply of players who will take your position if you don’t like it. The game will always survive.

  • After your 2nd contract (ie first contract after initial draftee contract) if you were paid under a certain minimum amount per year, then you go straight to FA status out of contract. Ie you can go wherever you want
  • If you’re out of contract, have been paid a certain level per year (ie your club obviously want to keep you but you’ve let you contract expire) and haven’t reached FA status yet - you can be traded to anyone.
  • FA stays the same, if you’re under contract obviously a trade has to be mutual.

So really this only stops the trades like Dunks, and allows clubs to get their worth out of guys they’ve put a lot of time into. Cry me a river if these blokes on 500k+ have to move across the country to continue their career. Especially considering how supportive clubs are outside of just their salary packet. They do have another option they can easily stay under contract and make their wanted club pay up fairly to get them.

And will open up way more movement between clubs for young guys who aren’t getting games who become FAs early.
 
Cal Twomey was spitballing WCE players that clubs could target. He mentioned Liam Ryan.

Snowballs chance in hell but I would give up whatever they wanted to get him over.
 

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I haven't seen Ryan play much, what I have seen was extremely exciting. However, I just looked up his statistics and they are not overly impressive. Just over a goal a game and 2 tackles, am I missing something?
 
Here we go dogs said:
I think Khamis, Bendendo, Garcia, VDM and Sweet will all be at minimum on an AFL List whether with us or another club.

I think Bendendo will be a special talent once he puts it together.

Khamis, Garcia and VDM should all become serviceable role players.

Sweet will probably be a back up ruckman in the TC mould. Might move around a few clubs. If he could mark a football he’d be first ruck quality.

McNeil is also more likely than not.

A lot to play out with Clarke and Buss, both don’t look fit enough or ready for vfl footy let alone afl. So far to early to know if they will make it.

Also still not sold on arty Jones, his pressure is great though.
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Just came back from dawn service. Very serious day for my family but I also laugh thinking that for years I couldn’t understand why they set up a catapult each year?

Back to footy.

Good points by both who commented on my posts.

Of course we expect to lose 3-5 players each year. I guess my point was that we have a fair chunk of talent to build from. Some new ones will be taken - some let go. And will get in three from the draft and a couple of trades each year so should be able to improve and manage loss of players. Biggest work to do in our biggest current strength - list wise.

A fair few of the young players listed above still have serious upside, should be locked in and will hopefully come through - it is rare to see a player 27+ getting much better but these are all well under that age. All have shown flashes.

Individually:

Bedendo has the traits but hasn’t been able to show any consistency- similar to the others at this stage.

One exception is Khamis - while he is still up and down he has looked dangerous every time he has played AFL and looks above VFL.

García had a Barry Crocker recently but looks very likely to be a regular and would be in front at the moment for the next midfielder.

McNeil is close to Garcia as next line (today in front) but is a different player - more a HFF who has been passed ATM by Jones as a forward and McLean in the midfield. I reckon like Scott - if played regularly would lift.

Sweet is a good back up ruck and needed but not sure he has another gear to go to. In the VFL games I have seen he has got better but is still not dominating so hard to see him being a regular. With Lobb and then Darcy he is only a replacement to English if injured or suspended.

Ironically West may have the most talent (outside Smith) but also seems on a negative trajectory with us and is horribly inconsistent. We need a Libba replacement and he ‘should’ be perfect but whatever the plan is it doesn’t seem to be working yet. I like him and believe a longer period in the guts will be what he needs but agree with commentators here that not playing there in the VFL is not a good sign.

Others are kids and hard to tell. Having said that Buss has shown some good early signs and the SOSOD first game was one of the best Debuts of a tall I have seen for a long time - one game so need to chill but certainly not disappointed. We will still look to add some talls - particularly a big competitive fullback but also have Jacob Cooney and Croft and another Darcy so some advantages there. Talls for once are not the issue.

Mids are more of a concern. Based On the past few years drafts - two first rounders should get us a couple of decent Mids this year. Hopefully an inside mid and a faster player.

What the list does show us is that young star power in the Mids is a bit weak compared to others. By 22 a star should probably have had a few games that show star level and more about consistency than ability.

Inside/Centre Mids:
Smith - star (just a bit off atm)
García - could be good but has he had a dominant game?
West - has had a couple of cracking games but as a forward. Has the ability but something holding him back - I believe he is the kind of player that will excel if given responsibility but playing as a small forward is going to kill his career - really hard position because you have to make the play rather than just put yourself in the play. Many great Mids can’t do it. Is he isn’t playing there regularly this year I expect he will go to a non dominant mid team and do well.
McNeil - looks good but not any dominant games - really like him but needs to find his 1 wood and build around that.

= at least 3 short maybe even 5. Always need at least six AFL standard. Today we have Bont, Libba, Macrae, Trelor, Smith and McLean - and just lost Dunkley. This is the kind of mix needed to be top tier AFL and all of them showed genuine star power by 20 years old. Today we effectively only have 1 in Smith. Other than young Eagleton we are in the open market for these replacements so a lot of work to do.

Outside/wing Mids
Williams - has shown heaps and is still only 23. Has the traits to be a star.
VDM - has had starting games but has some critical weaknesses that need addressing and needs resilience from his body. If he can’t mark and handle the ball under pressure- he will not get to where he needs to be.
Bedendo - has shown flashes at AFL level but looks off. May just need game time (injury hasn’t helped)
Baker - has exceeded most expectations and for in really well. Don’t know if he will be a star but he could be a solid playing going forward.

= out of these four and drafting we can be competitive in the wings with plenty of upside from all. Will all get much better than they are today.
 
NthBondiDoggies said:
Just came back from dawn service. Very serious day for my family but I also laugh thinking that for years I couldn’t understand why they set up a catapult each year?

Back to footy.

Good points by both who commented on my posts.

Of course we expect to lose 3-5 players each year. I guess my point was that we have a fair chunk of talent to build from. Some new ones will be taken - some let go. And will get in three from the draft and a couple of trades each year so should be able to improve and manage loss of players. Biggest work to do in our biggest current strength - list wise.

A fair few of the young players listed above still have serious upside, should be locked in and will hopefully come through - it is rare to see a player 27+ getting much better but these are all well under that age. All have shown flashes.

Individually:

Bedendo has the traits but hasn’t been able to show any consistency- similar to the others at this stage.

One exception is Khamis - while he is still up and down he has looked dangerous every time he has played AFL and looks above VFL.

García had a Barry Crocker recently but looks very likely to be a regular and would be in front at the moment for the next midfielder.

McNeil is close to Garcia as next line (today in front) but is a different player - more a HFF who has been passed ATM by Jones as a forward and McLean in the midfield. I reckon like Scott - if played regularly would lift.

Sweet is a good back up ruck and needed but not sure he has another gear to go to. In the VFL games I have seen he has got better but is still not dominating so hard to see him being a regular. With Lobb and then Darcy he is only a replacement to English if injured or suspended.

Ironically West may have the most talent (outside Smith) but also seems on a negative trajectory with us and is horribly inconsistent. We need a Libba replacement and he ‘should’ be perfect but whatever the plan is it doesn’t seem to be working yet. I like him and believe a longer period in the guts will be what he needs but agree with commentators here that not playing there in the VFL is not a good sign.

Others are kids and hard to tell. Having said that Buss has shown some good early signs and the SOSOD first game was one of the best Debuts of a tall I have seen for a long time - one game so need to chill but certainly not disappointed. We will still look to add some talls - particularly a big competitive fullback but also have Jacob Cooney and Croft and another Darcy so some advantages there. Talls for once are not the issue.

Mids are more of a concern. Based On the past few years drafts - two first rounders should get us a couple of decent Mids this year. Hopefully an inside mid and a faster player.

What the list does show us is that young star power in the Mids is a bit weak compared to others. By 22 a star should probably have had a few games that show star level and more about consistency than ability.

Inside/Centre Mids:
Smith - star (just a bit off atm)
García - could be good but has he had a dominant game?
West - has had a couple of cracking games but as a forward. Has the ability but something holding him back - I believe he is the kind of player that will excel if given responsibility but playing as a small forward is going to kill his career - really hard position because you have to make the play rather than just put yourself in the play. Many great Mids can’t do it. Is he isn’t playing there regularly this year I expect he will go to a non dominant mid team and do well.
McNeil - looks good but not any dominant games - really like him but needs to find his 1 wood and build around that.

= at least 3 short maybe even 5. Always need at least six AFL standard. Today we have Bont, Libba, Macrae, Trelor, Smith and McLean - and just lost Dunkley. This is the kind of mix needed to be top tier AFL and all of them showed genuine star power by 20 years old. Today we effectively only have 1 in Smith. Other than young Eagleton we are in the open market for these replacements so a lot of work to do.

Outside/wing Mids
Williams - has shown heaps and is still only 23. Has the traits to be a star.
VDM - has had starting games but has some critical weaknesses that need addressing and needs resilience from his body. If he can’t mark and handle the ball under pressure- he will not get to where he needs to be.
Bedendo - has shown flashes at AFL level but looks off. May just need game time (injury hasn’t helped)
Baker - has exceeded most expectations and for in really well. Don’t know if he will be a star but he could be a solid playing going forward.

= out of these four and drafting we can be competitive in the wings with plenty of upside from all. Will all get much better than they are today.
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Bailey Williams is 25 (turning 26 in October). Our website says he’s 23 because it stupidly picks up the DOB for Bailey Williams from West Coast … go on the WCE website and you’ll see apparently both Bailey Williams born on the same day.
 
Highlander said:
I haven't seen Ryan play much, what I have seen was extremely exciting. However, I just looked up his statistics and they are not overly impressive. Just over a goal a game and 2 tackles, am I missing something?
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The eagles last few years have been horrendous and generally flying under the radar. He would be amazing in our side.
 
NthBondiDoggies said:
Just came back from dawn service. Very serious day for my family but I also laugh thinking that for years I couldn’t understand why they set up a catapult each year?

Back to footy.

Good points by both who commented on my posts.

Of course we expect to lose 3-5 players each year. I guess my point was that we have a fair chunk of talent to build from. Some new ones will be taken - some let go. And will get in three from the draft and a couple of trades each year so should be able to improve and manage loss of players. Biggest work to do in our biggest current strength - list wise.

A fair few of the young players listed above still have serious upside, should be locked in and will hopefully come through - it is rare to see a player 27+ getting much better but these are all well under that age. All have shown flashes.

Individually:

Bedendo has the traits but hasn’t been able to show any consistency- similar to the others at this stage.

One exception is Khamis - while he is still up and down he has looked dangerous every time he has played AFL and looks above VFL.

García had a Barry Crocker recently but looks very likely to be a regular and would be in front at the moment for the next midfielder.

McNeil is close to Garcia as next line (today in front) but is a different player - more a HFF who has been passed ATM by Jones as a forward and McLean in the midfield. I reckon like Scott - if played regularly would lift.

Sweet is a good back up ruck and needed but not sure he has another gear to go to. In the VFL games I have seen he has got better but is still not dominating so hard to see him being a regular. With Lobb and then Darcy he is only a replacement to English if injured or suspended.

Ironically West may have the most talent (outside Smith) but also seems on a negative trajectory with us and is horribly inconsistent. We need a Libba replacement and he ‘should’ be perfect but whatever the plan is it doesn’t seem to be working yet. I like him and believe a longer period in the guts will be what he needs but agree with commentators here that not playing there in the VFL is not a good sign.

Others are kids and hard to tell. Having said that Buss has shown some good early signs and the SOSOD first game was one of the best Debuts of a tall I have seen for a long time - one game so need to chill but certainly not disappointed. We will still look to add some talls - particularly a big competitive fullback but also have Jacob Cooney and Croft and another Darcy so some advantages there. Talls for once are not the issue.

Mids are more of a concern. Based On the past few years drafts - two first rounders should get us a couple of decent Mids this year. Hopefully an inside mid and a faster player.

What the list does show us is that young star power in the Mids is a bit weak compared to others. By 22 a star should probably have had a few games that show star level and more about consistency than ability.

Inside/Centre Mids:
Smith - star (just a bit off atm)
García - could be good but has he had a dominant game?
West - has had a couple of cracking games but as a forward. Has the ability but something holding him back - I believe he is the kind of player that will excel if given responsibility but playing as a small forward is going to kill his career - really hard position because you have to make the play rather than just put yourself in the play. Many great Mids can’t do it. Is he isn’t playing there regularly this year I expect he will go to a non dominant mid team and do well.
McNeil - looks good but not any dominant games - really like him but needs to find his 1 wood and build around that.

= at least 3 short maybe even 5. Always need at least six AFL standard. Today we have Bont, Libba, Macrae, Trelor, Smith and McLean - and just lost Dunkley. This is the kind of mix needed to be top tier AFL and all of them showed genuine star power by 20 years old. Today we effectively only have 1 in Smith. Other than young Eagleton we are in the open market for these replacements so a lot of work to do.

Outside/wing Mids
Williams - has shown heaps and is still only 23. Has the traits to be a star.
VDM - has had starting games but has some critical weaknesses that need addressing and needs resilience from his body. If he can’t mark and handle the ball under pressure- he will not get to where he needs to be.
Bedendo - has shown flashes at AFL level but looks off. May just need game time (injury hasn’t helped)
Baker - has exceeded most expectations and for in really well. Don’t know if he will be a star but he could be a solid playing going forward.

= out of these four and drafting we can be competitive in the wings with plenty of upside from all. Will all get much better than they are today.
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I am sorry but VDM is too injury prone, he is a liability. Remember that game against Geelong when we were belting them, then he went down and they ran over the top of us. He reminds me of Prudden, talented but his body is not made for football.
 
Highlander said:
I haven't seen Ryan play much, what I have seen was extremely exciting. However, I just looked up his statistics and they are not overly impressive. Just over a goal a game and 2 tackles, am I missing something?
Click to expand...
His field kicking is better than almost everyone on our list. Really underrated aspect of his game given most focus is on exciting marks. Really clever player, has elite pace and really damaging when he pushes up the field
 
NthBondiDoggies said:
Just came back from dawn service. Very serious day for my family but I also laugh thinking that for years I couldn’t understand why they set up a catapult each year?

Back to footy.

Good points by both who commented on my posts.

Of course we expect to lose 3-5 players each year. I guess my point was that we have a fair chunk of talent to build from. Some new ones will be taken - some let go. And will get in three from the draft and a couple of trades each year so should be able to improve and manage loss of players. Biggest work to do in our biggest current strength - list wise.

A fair few of the young players listed above still have serious upside, should be locked in and will hopefully come through - it is rare to see a player 27+ getting much better but these are all well under that age. All have shown flashes.

Individually:

Bedendo has the traits but hasn’t been able to show any consistency- similar to the others at this stage.

One exception is Khamis - while he is still up and down he has looked dangerous every time he has played AFL and looks above VFL.

García had a Barry Crocker recently but looks very likely to be a regular and would be in front at the moment for the next midfielder.

McNeil is close to Garcia as next line (today in front) but is a different player - more a HFF who has been passed ATM by Jones as a forward and McLean in the midfield. I reckon like Scott - if played regularly would lift.

Sweet is a good back up ruck and needed but not sure he has another gear to go to. In the VFL games I have seen he has got better but is still not dominating so hard to see him being a regular. With Lobb and then Darcy he is only a replacement to English if injured or suspended.

Ironically West may have the most talent (outside Smith) but also seems on a negative trajectory with us and is horribly inconsistent. We need a Libba replacement and he ‘should’ be perfect but whatever the plan is it doesn’t seem to be working yet. I like him and believe a longer period in the guts will be what he needs but agree with commentators here that not playing there in the VFL is not a good sign.

Others are kids and hard to tell. Having said that Buss has shown some good early signs and the SOSOD first game was one of the best Debuts of a tall I have seen for a long time - one game so need to chill but certainly not disappointed. We will still look to add some talls - particularly a big competitive fullback but also have Jacob Cooney and Croft and another Darcy so some advantages there. Talls for once are not the issue.

Mids are more of a concern. Based On the past few years drafts - two first rounders should get us a couple of decent Mids this year. Hopefully an inside mid and a faster player.

What the list does show us is that young star power in the Mids is a bit weak compared to others. By 22 a star should probably have had a few games that show star level and more about consistency than ability.

Inside/Centre Mids:
Smith - star (just a bit off atm)
García - could be good but has he had a dominant game?
West - has had a couple of cracking games but as a forward. Has the ability but something holding him back - I believe he is the kind of player that will excel if given responsibility but playing as a small forward is going to kill his career - really hard position because you have to make the play rather than just put yourself in the play. Many great Mids can’t do it. Is he isn’t playing there regularly this year I expect he will go to a non dominant mid team and do well.
McNeil - looks good but not any dominant games - really like him but needs to find his 1 wood and build around that.

= at least 3 short maybe even 5. Always need at least six AFL standard. Today we have Bont, Libba, Macrae, Trelor, Smith and McLean - and just lost Dunkley. This is the kind of mix needed to be top tier AFL and all of them showed genuine star power by 20 years old. Today we effectively only have 1 in Smith. Other than young Eagleton we are in the open market for these replacements so a lot of work to do.

Outside/wing Mids
Williams - has shown heaps and is still only 23. Has the traits to be a star.
VDM - has had starting games but has some critical weaknesses that need addressing and needs resilience from his body. If he can’t mark and handle the ball under pressure- he will not get to where he needs to be.
Bedendo - has shown flashes at AFL level but looks off. May just need game time (injury hasn’t helped)
Baker - has exceeded most expectations and for in really well. Don’t know if he will be a star but he could be a solid playing going forward.

= out of these four and drafting we can be competitive in the wings with plenty of upside from all. Will all get much better than they are today.
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I agree our list is 3-5 younger developing midfielders short.
with Croft coming, and early promising signs with O'Donnell, we can focus the next few drafts/ off seasons on this.
and yes please for flyin Ryan, perfect fit for us, and a gun
 

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Rather be missing midfielders than talls.
 
Going forward, we have Croft this year, Cooney next year and another Darcy on the horizon.

Our drafting focus must be on smalls, both faster inside midfielders & pacy flankers. Bring in speed and let the FS take care of the tall spots.

We have to wait until 3 years into the taller draftees career before they can really contribute BUT there are some seriously good signs for the future.


Really hoping we get some great pacy midfielders that make the grade soon.
 
LittleG said:
Going forward, we have Croft this year, Cooney next year and another Darcy on the horizon.

Our drafting focus must be on smalls, both faster inside midfielders & pacy flankers. Bring in speed and let the FS take care of the tall spots.

We have to wait until 3 years into the taller draftees career before they can really contribute BUT there are some seriously good signs for the future.


Really hoping we get some great pacy midfielders that make the grade soon.
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I think Cooney is top age U16 so 2025 draft. Not sure about Darcy.
 
doggies ftw said:
I really don’t understand the restraint of trade argument, we’re talking uncontracted players here. Obviously contracted players can turn down a trade, or work with their club to find a trade that suits them, once your contracts done you lose your ability to negotiate your position. Players have way too much sway in nominating their chosen clubs who then lowball their offers, once you get to FA then you have done your ’service’ and can choose where you like.

Don’t like it find a new job, yeah the AFL needs the players obviously but they’re not bigger than the game, there will be an endless supply of players who will take your position if you don’t like it. The game will always survive.

  • After your 2nd contract (ie first contract after initial draftee contract) if you were paid under a certain minimum amount per year, then you go straight to FA status out of contract. Ie you can go wherever you want
  • If you’re out of contract, have been paid a certain level per year (ie your club obviously want to keep you but you’ve let you contract expire) and haven’t reached FA status yet - you can be traded to anyone.
  • FA stays the same, if you’re under contract obviously a trade has to be mutual.

So really this only stops the trades like Dunks, and allows clubs to get their worth out of guys they’ve put a lot of time into. Cry me a river if these blokes on 500k+ have to move across the country to continue their career. Especially considering how supportive clubs are outside of just their salary packet. They do have another option they can easily stay under contract and make their wanted club pay up fairly to get them.

And will open up way more movement between clubs for young guys who aren’t getting games who become FAs early.
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Interesting issue that I'm undecided on.

There are quite a few sports around the world though that do trade players without consent so I wonder how that goes down?
 
Nat Fyfe said:
His field kicking is better than almost everyone on our list. Really underrated aspect of his game given most focus is on exciting marks. Really clever player, has elite pace and really damaging when he pushes up the field
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But hasn't played more than 12 games in a year. He's getting to the age where his body should be mature enough to handle the rigours of footy. Sure, rib injury isn't necessarily his fault, but when you combine it with hamstring and groin injuries etc, I can understand some fans questioning his worth on the list.
 
glenashley said:
Interesting issue that I'm undecided on.

There are quite a few sports around the world though that do trade players without consent so I wonder how that goes down?
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I get where people are coming from that it’s different when players earn 15mil instead of 500k per year.

But I just think that it’ll make players stay contracted and give clubs a bit more room in negotiation, I doubt we’d see that many players actually cop it they’d just adapt. The current system just doesn’t work for clubs.

Plus the players are contracted by the AFL so I’m not sure how a restraint of trade lawsuit would hold up
 
The only sports that really trade players against their will, is the big American leagues. Doesn't happen in soccer where a player still has to agree to a transfer, and often the transfer is initiated by the player themselves. If the club does not agree with their request, they just hold the player to their contract. Maybe clubs here could do that more often instead of acting like they had no choice and sooking?

The obsession with the American leagues is nauseous. They are no longer sports teams over there, but rather soulless business corporations. Where its all about money and advertising brands. Besides, just about all of us here would kick up a fuss if our current job decided to uproot us and demand we move elsewhere. So it seems hypocritical to demand players do the same. Unless you signed up say for the military, then you pretty much know you're going to be moved around heaps. If I signed to work for a company at say, their Perth location, they can't just ship me off to Brisbane without my consent.

We cry about players having to much power and no loyalty. Well the American system shows that there is even less loyalty when its the clubs who have all the power. They get traded all the time with zero communication and thanks from the team. Players in the AFL requesting a trade back home for "home sickness" and holding clubs ransom here, is rare. Most trades are often facilitated by players seeking a better opportunity, and often clubs ask those players to find a trade partner, and there is mutual agreements between the club and player on good terms.

Plus people seem to forget it is not just about the player. It is about their family. It is well known kids who get moved around a lot, struggle to adapt to their new environments all the time and never have a settled life and can't make friends. You pretty much forcing kids to move as well. And the wife? What if after years of study and work, she finally gets her dream promotion at her dream job? She has to now throw it all away? The other option is, separating the families for a few years, and we all know that will pretty much end it.

I find it even more pathetic that a player is on vacation with his family, suddenly gets traded and the clubs do not even contact them to tell them about their plans, or they have been traded. They find out via their agents or the news. Once traded, the club cuts you off fully instantly. That is 100 times worse than a player demanding a trade. Not to mention, base wages for the lowest earners in the big leagues after often more than our best paid in the AFL. They live like millionaires over there, big houses and fancy cars. Could keep their house in LA and buy a new pad in New York if traded from one side of the country to another, and never work again. The majority of AFL players still end up having to work normal jobs post career.
 
Their has to be a mechanism to stop players holding clubs to random by nominating only one team they will be traded to though.
 
maddog37 said:
Their has to be a mechanism to stop players holding clubs to random by nominating only one team they will be traded to though.
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Make it by state, if thats the issue. If JHF wanted to "return home" to SA, then Crows should be open to trade as well, not just Port. Even though they traded all their assests for Rankine. But I suppose if a player wanted to move to VIC, then all the Melbourne teams should be available. I'm just not for the idea of forced relocations interstate.

Then again players holding clubs ransom is rare, you get the odd team sook when it comes to a young gun, or star player moving and how they feel they got unders. But for the most part teams are generally pretty satisfied with outcomes. In fact I reckon most teams get overs for their players. We paid up way more than Lobb is actually worth.

Most trades requests to specific team is for a reason. Because either that nominated team is the only one who can afford the contract offer on the table, or the only team that offers the player a role that could resurrect their stagnating career. Or could be the only team that even shows interest.

Like with Hunter, the club was open to him staying. But both agreed a new start could be beneficial as well. We likely told him to find a team, he picked Melbourne, we traded with no fuss. Which is what most trades are like. But for some reason the odd "ransom" trade gets talked up like it happens all the time. I think its just a typical knee jerk reaction to something that hardly happens. Plus the AFL are trying to shoot their own brand in the foot wanting to be like the big boys in America.
 
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_Cerberus_ said:
The only sports that really trade players against their will, is the big American leagues. Doesn't happen in soccer where a player still has to agree to a transfer, and often the transfer is initiated by the player themselves. If the club does not agree with their request, they just hold the player to their contract. Maybe clubs here could do that more often instead of acting like they had no choice and sooking?

The obsession with the American leagues is nauseous. They are no longer sports teams over there, but rather soulless business corporations. Where its all about money and advertising brands. Besides, just about all of us here would kick up a fuss if our current job decided to uproot us and demand we move elsewhere. So it seems hypocritical to demand players do the same. Unless you signed up say for the military, then you pretty much know you're going to be moved around heaps. If I signed to work for a company at say, their Perth location, they can't just ship me off to Brisbane without my consent.

We cry about players having to much power and no loyalty. Well the American system shows that there is even less loyalty when its the clubs who have all the power. They get traded all the time with zero communication and thanks from the team. Players in the AFL requesting a trade back home for "home sickness" and holding clubs ransom here, is rare. Most trades are often facilitated by players seeking a better opportunity, and often clubs ask those players to find a trade partner, and there is mutual agreements between the club and player on good terms.

Plus people seem to forget it is not just about the player. It is about their family. It is well known kids who get moved around a lot, struggle to adapt to their new environments all the time and never have a settled life and can't make friends. You pretty much forcing kids to move as well. And the wife? What if after years of study and work, she finally gets her dream promotion at her dream job? She has to now throw it all away? The other option is, separating the families for a few years, and we all know that will pretty much end it.

I find it even more pathetic that a player is on vacation with his family, suddenly gets traded and the clubs do not even contact them to tell them about their plans, or they have been traded. They find out via their agents or the news. Once traded, the club cuts you off fully instantly. That is 100 times worse than a player demanding a trade. Not to mention, base wages for the lowest earners in the big leagues after often more than our best paid in the AFL. They live like millionaires over there, big houses and fancy cars. Could keep their house in LA and buy a new pad in New York if traded from one side of the country to another, and never work again. The majority of AFL players still end up having to work normal jobs post career.
Click to expand...
You know you could be going anywhere when you enter the draft, you play AFL you could be asked to play anywhere in the country - your contract is to play AFL if you don’t like it go find another job simply, you’re not gonna get a more supportive working environment to support your family in a move than AFL. People move across the country for high paying jobs all the time.

Plus as they’ve mentioned it would only be for the high earners who are out of contracts, so the players clubs do actually get burnt on, not the kids just looking for opportunity. It would change the landscape and players would stay under contract more often which is better for the league, rather than going uncontracted so you can hold the club ransom.

If you’re contracted your nominated club would have to pay up for you, which is fair on everyone.

Also don’t forget this would completely neutralise the unevenness across the league in regards to the big clubs. No longer would every player go to Geelong or Richmond because small clubs can pay just as much for them.

The league needs this
 
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_Cerberus_ said:
The only sports that really trade players against their will, is the big American leagues. Doesn't happen in soccer where a player still has to agree to a transfer, and often the transfer is initiated by the player themselves. If the club does not agree with their request, they just hold the player to their contract. Maybe clubs here could do that more often instead of acting like they had no choice and sooking?

The obsession with the American leagues is nauseous. They are no longer sports teams over there, but rather soulless business corporations. Where its all about money and advertising brands. Besides, just about all of us here would kick up a fuss if our current job decided to uproot us and demand we move elsewhere. So it seems hypocritical to demand players do the same. Unless you signed up say for the military, then you pretty much know you're going to be moved around heaps. If I signed to work for a company at say, their Perth location, they can't just ship me off to Brisbane without my consent.

We cry about players having to much power and no loyalty. Well the American system shows that there is even less loyalty when its the clubs who have all the power. They get traded all the time with zero communication and thanks from the team. Players in the AFL requesting a trade back home for "home sickness" and holding clubs ransom here, is rare. Most trades are often facilitated by players seeking a better opportunity, and often clubs ask those players to find a trade partner, and there is mutual agreements between the club and player on good terms.

Plus people seem to forget it is not just about the player. It is about their family. It is well known kids who get moved around a lot, struggle to adapt to their new environments all the time and never have a settled life and can't make friends. You pretty much forcing kids to move as well. And the wife? What if after years of study and work, she finally gets her dream promotion at her dream job? She has to now throw it all away? The other option is, separating the families for a few years, and we all know that will pretty much end it.

I find it even more pathetic that a player is on vacation with his family, suddenly gets traded and the clubs do not even contact them to tell them about their plans, or they have been traded. They find out via their agents or the news. Once traded, the club cuts you off fully instantly. That is 100 times worse than a player demanding a trade. Not to mention, base wages for the lowest earners in the big leagues after often more than our best paid in the AFL. They live like millionaires over there, big houses and fancy cars. Could keep their house in LA and buy a new pad in New York if traded from one side of the country to another, and never work again. The majority of AFL players still end up having to work normal jobs post career.
Click to expand...

I agree with the majority of this, particularly on the real negative sides of this when players are treated poorly by clubs. However, I think the reason that people refer to the US leagues as a comparison is likely due to the similarities in the structure of the sports - i.e. salary cap (of sorts), draft for equalisation purposes (theoretically), single country (you can't move like soccer or rugby players can to different countries). It might feel wrong to compare when the money involved is of a different order, but even given that it might be the closest comparison. I don't think you can equate it to really any other sports that don't have those mechanisms or similar structure.

I also think some sort of re-balancing of the scales is required, as I find it difficult to get on board with the current state - even if it doesn't actually happen that much - of a club spending draft capital, development time/resources etc. only to be back to square one a few years later when the player wants to move. Even if you end up getting better draft capital than the original cost of the player, you're now likely bringing in more 18 year olds and starting the cycle again.

I'm conscious that I come to this as someone who does consume a decent amount of US sports, so maybe I've been conditioned by that. I do think that some sort of evolution in this area for AFL is inevitable, though - the Jack Bowes trade last year was the first really obvious example of a salary dump by a club and they had to attach a premium pick to do it. Not that I'd like the following to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in situations like this in the coming 5-10 years:
  • WC are midway through their list build in 2025, and identify Naughton or McKay or a King brother or whatever as someone who they could pair with Allen. They also don't want to wait 4-5 years until young KPFs develop to the level they can play in a contending team.
  • They know they need to offer around $1m for 4-5 years to be in the conversation, and can't do it with current salary cap.
  • They offer either McGovern or Gaff, who also earn around $1m per year but only have a year or two left on the contracts (edit: the actual contracts for those players IRL might be done by then, but in this example they're expiring soon but not imminently), along with their second round pick this year and their future first next year.
  • One of the other clubs take a gamble that a) they can survive the loss given the other KPFs on their list, b) it provides them salary cap flexibility in the next couple of years, and c) WC are still bad next year so they end up with a chance at an elite onballer who can fill a more pressing issue with their own list. They may also back themselves in to get value from the player coming in, if they can provide a boost to a list that's more in contention.
That may be a poor example because it's unlikely that decent KPFs in their prime will be traded unless they really want to be, but it's offered simply as an example of how we might gradually move towards this as the Bowes trade might have been the first domino to fall. The issue is obviously trading players against their will, which I don't agree with in principle but I'm not sure how the system works in the long run without that. Maybe the player has to have been with the club for x years already, and/or is on a certain salary level, and/or has agreed to the clause in their contract or whatever.

It's an interesting area (for me at least). It'll be insightful to see how the players union and the players themselves react to any conversations around this, as I think it would be a little disingenuous to cry foul when we've already adopted a number of free agency and trading rules which has put the lion's share of the power with the player.

Finally, I do agree that forcing players to play out their contracts if you don't want them to leave is absolutely something more clubs should do. We did it with Dunkley, and whatever you think about how that eventually played out, we definitely got two good years from him and went close to a flag. Papley wanted to go to Carlton a few years back, Sydney stood firm and he's part of the furniture there now. It won't always work out, but it's important that it happens.
 
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