Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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flipper83 said:
The problem with that team is that only Jones, Richards, Libba, Bont and Naughton are good defensively for their position.
Most of our players are very offensively minded and can't turn off their ball winning instincts to shut down their opponents when they need to which is why we give up so many runs of goals.
Good teams seem to have a non negotiable defensive mandate and then work their offence from there.
I don't know if it can be coached into our current players or if we can supplement them with strong defensive players to balance the list but I can't see us achieving success unless we can fix it.
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Not having a crack at you mate. But I believe that anyone getting paid 850k a year to coach should be able to get his players to play with more accountability.
 
VitalDread said:
For dogs to stay at the top end of the ladder

Even though English wants 80% ruck role
Him as a forward option is almost unguardable

He's such a weapon up there
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He is also a magnificent set shot. So reliable.
 

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TiAn_ said:
Lachie McNeil and Arthur Jones combined for 26 AFL games this year and his VFL form was better than both of them. He’s a superior goal kicker to each of them and at least as good pressure-wise. There’s a reason he went first round and those two didn’t.
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Isn't his kicking inside 50 pretty suspect? We need a Miers type not another guy who will burn our forwards.

Liam Henry's pace would improve our wing options. I haven't seen enough of him but apparently he takes risky kicks and they often come off but he has a lower DE% because of this?

I feel like a fast winger would improve us more than a half forward who isn't a specialist crumber/tackler.
ThePhreshOne said:
Wasn't Flanders looking to leave Gold Coast if Dew stayed on board? Or am I confusing him with another.
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Yup, he's the one. Put a line through Flanders if we get Dew.
 
El Rancho said:
That's a win. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about to be honest. Invest more time into Arty and we have a similar player.
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Strongly disagree. Arty seems like a great kid but he’s nowhere near the level of Henry.

Arty Jones had 99 touches in 13 games.

Liam Henry went 20+ touches in 9/16 games this year. Completely different players.
 
LittleG said:
Great to see you back.

Personally I like Jones at FB.

JOD appears a great CHB prospect, so I would put him there. Daniel is too slow for a defender and we need an intercept player.
Busslinger is almost physically ready for that role and will develop into a great CHB in time. He has elite disposal for his position and makes great attacking decisions with the ball. And he can defend, while his 1v1 isn’t elite yet, it is improving.

Lobb should be getting more ruck minutes and should be a starter on that team.

Macrae isn’t defensive minded enough in our midfield to be a centre. Bont is an offensive weapon, Libba gets the ball and the third player in there needs to be defensively minded. Macrae just isn’t that. I would continue to play him a HFF and hope he improves in that role.

Treloar should be in the Centre rotation and at least calm has more of a defensive impact that Macrae. Both are not really good at that role and we really need a quick defensive minded mid to play centre.

A Jones I see as a good solution to forward pressure but he does wear himself out after a few weeks and needs to be rotated out for a rest. A new coaching group may see that as an option.


I don’t like our current wings but Poulter is at least improving, so may get good enough.

We have a lot of mediocre on our list that play regular AFL minutes. Bringing in 4 players this year who could be inside mid, FP, Wing and small defender; would be ideal.


Again, great to have you back posting again.
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See, I’ve always seen Macrae as a great balanced midfielder. I’ve always rated his tackling, but there’s no doubt it had dropped off recently. He’s a ball winner and works tirelessly, so I would have him around the ball in front of a Treloar.

I’m really interested in Busslinger, because from what I have seen, which is limited, he looks the kind of player that we need in the team now.
 
yebach said:
If Ross Lyon and Simon f**kn Goodwin can coach it into their players. Why can't we?
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Stewart Dew was the Swans defensive coach. I'd assume that's a big reason we're chasing him.

With all due respect to Bubba, I think we need new voices at the club.
 
Pannalstaroz said:
See, I’ve always seen Macrae as a great balanced midfielder. I’ve always rated his tackling, but there’s no doubt it had dropped off recently. He’s a ball winner and works tirelessly, so I would have him around the ball in front of a Treloar.

I’m really interested in Busslinger, because from what I have seen, which is limited, he looks the kind of player that we need in the team now.
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Either the game speed has increased rapidly in the last four years Or Macrae has lost a step. He is no longer a balanced midfielder when previously he was about the best in the business.

Busslinger has 3 hugely important attributes:
Great vision
Great positioning
Great long kick

These are really different from other KPD. I expect he is a future CHB for us. He does need weight and to develop better contested marking but he currently is a good mark just not KPD level due to lack of weight.


I do miss you birdy updates but that was horrible management by our club that caused that to end.
 
Libbaaaa said:
Macrae was surely playing hurt. Pre bye 108 supercoach points/27 disposals compared to 85 Supercoach points/22 disposals post bye.
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Which really annoys me


It's a bit silly depending on the injury but I rather we rest and recover players instead of playing them hurt
 

TOBY TOSS-UP​

Western Bulldogs’ playmaker Toby McLean faces an uncertain future at the kennel as he looks for more opportunity.

McLean, 27, is keen to stay in red, white and blue but has managed only six senior games this season on the back of a second knee reconstruction.

The premiership ballwinner has some exciting traits in the forward half but he remains without a deal for next season.

McLean was recalled for the win over Geelong on Saturday night but his hopes of a big September were extinguished when the GWS Giants upset Carlton to steal the Dogs’ spot in the eight.

The goal kicker, who was a regular between 2016-2019, is eager to continue his career but it remains to be seen whether his best chance is with the Dogs.

McLean, who had 15 touches and six tackles against the Cats, is set to face a nervous few weeks as the Dogs finalise their list.

He could attract some interest from rivals but would have to pass checks on his knee after a pair of heartbreaking ACL injuries.

[PLAYERCARD]Toby McLean[/PLAYERCARD]’s future at the Bulldogs is uncertain. Picture: Morgan Hancock/Getty Images.

Toby McLean’s future at the Bulldogs is uncertain. Picture: Morgan Hancock/Getty Images.

DOG CLOSES ON NEW DEAL​

Bailey Williams is closing in on a deal of three or four seasons at the Western Bulldogs as he signs away his free agency status.

Williams is loyal to the club and while he is keen for some security in his contract the 25-year-old South Australian has no plans to return to his home state.

The Dogs’ poor finish to the year has raised hopes from rivals that contracted stars Aaron Naughton and Tim English might consider overtures.

But the firm friends, both WA products, are certain to see out their contracts for 2024.

Neither are likely to jump on early contract extensions, and by the time the CBA goes up they could easily attract million dollar offers.

Bailey Williams is poised for a new long-term deal. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.

Bailey Williams is poised for a new long-term deal. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
But they seem relatively happy at the Dog despite murmurings of discontent and have no plans to look around.

The Dogs are absolutely certain father-son Jordan Croft will commit to them ahead of November 20’s draft as the son of former defender Matthew.

The challenge will be attempting to secure an early pick by trading up with their two first-rounders (they have the Lions pick).

But they would love to take an elite young midfielder with an early pick before clubs bid on exciting forward Croft in the mid-teens.
 

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Lindsay_Gilbee said:
Strongly disagree. Arty seems like a great kid but he’s nowhere near the level of Henry.

Arty Jones had 99 touches in 13 games.

Liam Henry went 20+ touches in 9/16 games this year. Completely different players.
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Yeah, but they are at much different points in their careers

Henry's first season or 2 were as a small forward also and Arty's numbers stack up more than reasonably.

Henry had no games in his first 15 where he had more than 10 touches or more than 2 tackles. Arty has already had 4 of each.
 
Lindsay_Gilbee said:
McLean’s 27?! God that’s gone fast.
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I know. An AFL career goes fast.

Unfortunately being a fringe player with bung knees at that age, he’s a chance to end on the scrap heap this offseason. A real shame. Looked very good in 2018 when given a lot of midfield minutes.

Regardless, he’s won a flag and played 100.
 
Pannalstaroz said:
See, I’ve always seen Macrae as a great balanced midfielder. I’ve always rated his tackling, but there’s no doubt it had dropped off recently. He’s a ball winner and works tirelessly, so I would have him around the ball in front of a Treloar.

I’m really interested in Busslinger, because from what I have seen, which is limited, he looks the kind of player that we need in the team now.
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Love him but I think his efforts in rounds one and two had him facing either a change of role or a stint in the twos.

I hope he’s been managing an injury or something and can bounce back. Otherwise his HFF role is here to stay and his career won’t be as long as we’d hoped.
 
Lindsay_Gilbee said:
Guys I’ve heard the AFL is set to announced the 20th expansion team is set to be located in Milan. Starting next year. AFL is giving the new team free license to all Italian players, so we’re losing Bontempelli and Liberatore for nothing. Take that with a pinch of salt, though.
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Glad they weren’t introduced before COVID.

Their ‘Hug a Chinese person’ directive to combat COVID in 2020 (I’m not kidding) would have seen most of the team unavailable for half the year.
 
Our current draft picks are 10, 17, 36 and 63.

Even though we'll end up with an entirely different set, just looked up the history of these selections.

Best ever combo was 2001, when those picks were taken with James Kelly, Sam Mitchell, Adam Houlihan and.....Sam Power.

That's got to be a good omen.
 
Pannalstaroz said:
Hi all

What’s our best 22 and where are the gaps?

B: Dale _______ Richards
HB JJ Jones Daniel
C: Smith Macrae Treloar
HF: Weightman Naughton _______
F: _______ JUH _________
FOL: English Bontempelli Libba

Not sold on Lobb but he was excellent the other day.
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Lobbs been good since his return from being sent down.

However, I think he's a placeholder until Darcy is physically equipped to play an entire season. When he does Id expect him to zoom past Lobb.
Pannalstaroz said:
There’s nothing wrong with that list above. Those players are all good. AFL standard if not better. I’ve been quiet all season but the bottom end of our 22 is abysmal. We desperately need a key back who can intercept. Whilst I like O’Donnell, I think he is still some time away. But at least he looks like a sportsman, the game and skills seems to come easily to him. I would hope that Arthur Jones would be the solution to the speed problem in the front half, but he never touches the ball when he comes on the ground. His pressure and speed are good, but his tackles don’t impact the opposition ever.
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There's nothing wrong with your list. The problem is how shallow it is and their adaptability to play other roles or where you have them lining up. On paper Smith and Treloar should be played on the wings. Im not too sure that they can. I think that JO'D can be that 3rd tall intercepting defender. The bigger issue is a lock down fullback. Jones is better suited to CHB where he has freedom of movement and can use his exceptional reading of play to its full extent. I dont think he is well suited to the physical man on man role of full back. Your assessment of Jones is spot on. Im not sure that he can add the missing parts of his game, but there is a place for him if he can. Assuming the likes of Clarke dont go straight past him.
Pannalstaroz said:
We have to cut the crap that’s on our list. The worst players in our side who continually get turned over are being asked to do too much. They have too much impact in the game, not just from an effort point of view, but from a skill point of view and their skills are simply not up to it, so they end up turning the ball over all the time.
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Ive said countless times that due to the amount of low skilled fringe player that we've rotated in and out of ours side. And because these guys are mostly filling gaps on the wings and flanks it's having a knock on effect of piling the pressure on the next tier of mid range players. I think this is best exemplified by the down form of the likes of the 3 Bailey's that we've seen this season. Which ripples through the rest of the team when its 3 guys who we rely on to be ball carriers.
Pannalstaroz said:
This season was incredibly frustrating and a lot of things need to change before the start of next year. I don’t know if Bevo is the problem but I do know that the coaching support around him seems to lack a lot of ability. Comparing our coaching group to the Saints coaching group is depressing.
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Yes. But it's not fair on anybody to scapegoat the assistants and absolve Beveridge.

That our assistants pale in comparison is on the club.
Pannalstaroz said:
I haven’t seen the 2s this year so what’s the story with Busslinger and all the young guys? Do any of them have what it takes to move us forward? Can Darcy be the full back? I keep hearing people saying Naughton should go back, but I watched him closely when he went back against North Melbourne and he was awful. Finding people who can mark it in the forward line is hard. Leave him.
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I think the jury is still out on all of last years recruits. However, they were either coming from a long way back or spent much of the season injured.

Clarke is the most likely to play forward. Gallagher looks like a typical utility who might be able to play most non key positions. Busslinger looks like an interception 3rd at this stage. Good reader of the play, neatly skilled. Still some question marks about his ability to guard an opponent. All are a pre-season away from fully forming.

I had the same feeling about Naughton during his brief stint at CHB he looked lost. Having said that he still needs to work on his forward craft and move away from using his brute power to outmark everybody. I dont think it's an accident that when JUH hit his straps in the second half of the season and looked the more dangerous option of the pair. He is a natural forward who understands the position and the other does it through force of will.
 
Dogs Rule said:
To be fair, he wasn't on his lonesome in the underperforming stakes. Could easily make the case for a good half dozen or more.
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Easier to list those that weren't underperforming. In the last 6-8 games I'd only have Bont, Libba, Richards and Jones. Give JOD and West a pass as they are younger/didn't have solid runs in the team until the back end of the year, and Lobb finished the year out well. Naughton always tries hard but didn't play well for long stretches. JJ was injured at the end of the season and has decent before that.

Smith is talked about a lot on here, probably because of the gap between expectation and reality as he looked like he might turn into our second best player when he burst on to the scene a couple of years back. But I'd argue that Dale's poor form, English's inability to provide consistent ruck form (despite a likely AA nod), the enormous gap between Williams's best and worst, Keath's work with ball in hand, VDM's inability to play defensively at anywhere near AFL level, and Duryea falling off a cliff but still being picked every week were brutal. In addition, that multiple senior players (especially you, Cody) look like they've never practised tackling an AFL footballer before and that's a fair amount wrong with the team in the back half of the year.

A few of these shouldn't play at AFL level again (Keath, VDM and Duryea), but I'd back the rest in next year with a coaching change (or at least a refresh) and some more demanding standards at the club. That should mean dropping "undroppable" players like Smith and Cody if they can't perform basic tasks like tackling or hitting up a lead forward.
 
Lindsay_Gilbee said:
Strongly disagree. Arty seems like a great kid but he’s nowhere near the level of Henry.

Arty Jones had 99 touches in 13 games.

Liam Henry went 20+ touches in 9/16 games this year. Completely different players.
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Liam Henry has played 30 games more than Arty and has only really shown anything in the second half of this year. We don't have to agree, but if Arty plays another 30 games and isn't doing something similar, then move him on.
My point was that I don't think we need to spending draft capital on Henry. Considering what Freo would want, I'd much rather take the pick/s to the draft.
 
weltschmerz said:
Why would the club do that? He's our only young mid and just about the AFL's most marketable players. He gets bums on seats and membership dollars in the coffers.
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Who knows why? My point is that just because his manager says he wants to stay is no guarantee he will stay. No-one knows what has really gone on here.

Personally - I really hope he stays for many reasons, on field/off field and for him personally.
 
Was listening to SEN this morning. Sam Edmund said Lohmann remains unsigned and expects the dogs to be interested as we wanted him as part of the Dunks trade.

However I didn’t gauge a lot of confidence in the statement, rather a throw at the stumps.
 
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