Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Doggy]

Adam Cerra - 9 career brownlow votes in 4 seasons as a former pick 5 who was thus traded for pick 6 and a 3rd rounder.

He was effectively traded for his equivalent draft pick as he was considered to be as good as an average player with that pick.

Bailey Smith - former pick 7 who has 29 career brownlow votes from 5 seasons as a former pick 7.

The knee and the inconsistency and the weakness of his most recent form is clearly a factor, but it's why we should be expecting something a bit less - ie something around pick 8-10 rather than pick 5-7, in my view.

Meanwhile, the offer will be closer to 20

 

[Unorth]

We disagree on a number of levels. Firstly, I haven't given up on either of them. If I'm picking a finals team today, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that both Daniel and Macrae are in it. History will tell you that it's remarkably challenging to win finals without experience and leadership, and both offer this in spades. On top of that, the possible replacements - Garcia, Poulter, Sanders, Baker and the like - are clearly inferior players at this stage of their career. I actually don't buy that they're not best 22.

Secondly, even if I'm wrong on the above, you can't win premierships without depth. Yes, you need to prioritise the strength of your best team, but this is rarely the one that suits up for you at the end of the year. Depth is also important in driving standards and keeping the best team on their toes. Having depth as well credentialed as players and leaders as CD and Macrae are is hugely valuable.

Finally, cap space is only a worthwhile argument if it's immediately going to better players. If we're bringing in players that are immediately better and immediately displace them further down the pecking order, then it is more understandable. But pushing them out just for cash to sit there? It makes no sense. Not to mention that we offered Baz a relatively sizable deal, so there's money there already. We've never been a destination club, even in our periods of success, so pushing contributing players out just because they're on an above average wage is nonsensical.

IMO the Caleb/Macrae issue has more to do with how they feel. We all basically had the same convo about Lobb earlier.

It is good for the club to have such quality depth. But the club may want to give the players the option to play regular senior football somewhere else, particularly two well regarded club legends.

So in reality the question is more about player/club relationships and how the players feel about spending most of the season in the vfl when they could be playing every week elsewhere. We also would probably rather any potentially malcontent contracted players (not saying they are) move on.

Undeniably on paper you don’t give these guys up just for the sake of it but there’s a human element that I think is going to play into it.

Macrae is playing now, but it’s obvious he and Sanders can’t play together - too samey and not in a good way. We’re seeing this now and saw it earlier in the year. Our priority next season onwards is going to be Sanders and Macrae would be well aware of this.

if say Macrae put his hand up and said he’s ok being injury cover for the rest of his contract that’d be great. But as we saw earlier in the season with Lobb, that exact scenario led to a very early trade request. Sounds nice but no agent would advise their player to do that if another club comes knocking with senior opportunities.

I do agree with your post btw, you aren’t arguing anything contrary to what I said above. I just think we will “do right” as a priority and look to move them on if that’s what they want (and they probably will).

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

IMO the Caleb/Macrae issue has more to do with how they feel. We all basically had the same convo about Lobb earlier.

It is good for the club to have such quality depth. But the club may want to give the players the option to play regular senior football somewhere else, particularly two well regarded club legends.

So in reality the question is more about player/club relationships and how the players feel about spending most of the season in the vfl when they could be playing every week elsewhere. We also would probably rather any potentially malcontent contracted players (not saying they are) move on.

Undeniably on paper you don’t give these guys up just for the sake of it but there’s a human element that I think is going to play into it.

Macrae is playing now, but it’s obvious he and Sanders can’t play together - too samey and not in a good way. We’re seeing this now and saw it earlier in the year. Our priority next season onwards is going to be Sanders and Macrae would be well aware of this.

if say Macrae put his hand up and said he’s ok being injury cover for the rest of his contract that’d be great. But as we saw earlier in the season with Lobb, that exact scenario led to a very early trade request. Sounds nice but no agent would advise their player to do that if another club comes knocking with senior opportunities.

I do agree with your post btw, you aren’t arguing anything contrary to what I said above. I just think we will “do right” as a priority and look to move them on if that’s what they want (and they probably will).

My point is entirely about pushing them out on our end. I certainly wouldn't begrudge them wanting to chase more guaranteed game time elsewhere, and would hope we'd do right by them if that was the case*.

* St Kilda, GWS, Melbourne, Geelong are out of the question though thanks guys

 

[Next Waiting]

Until Butters has signed, I'm keeping Macrae. And when that happens, as mentioned above, the club and player (Macrae in this case) are then talking about the likelihood of reduced senior exposure (barring injury to first choice players ... so essentially depth) but with an important role to play in the development of other players through the VFL in terms of leadership and standards. Is that something that would interest you? If you'd prefer to look for more regular opportunities at senior level we'll do everything possible to facilitate that and you'd go with our sincere best wishes and gratitude for your immense contribution to our club.

 

[0utsider]

Hard disagree. He’s 23 and comparatively speaking ranking against players of same experience he’s been A-grade or close to for probably 3.5 of of his 5 full seasons.

ACLs aren’t a death sentence these days. We should be looking at Cerra as precedent, Baz is worth a top 10 every day and we’ll still be on the short end of that stick

I don’t think he can be considered to be on the same level as the genuine A-grade young midfielders in the league like Serong, Daicos, Gulden, Warner, Sheezel etc. Hes simply a level below that and probably always will be.

Agree that an ACL isn’t a death sentence, if it was we wouldn’t even be in the conversation for that 10-15 pick. There’s no doubt it’s an asterisk though, especially when you consider the overall context of having a slight regression in 2023 then missing a whole year. It’s a good two years since we saw consistent high level football from him.

The Cerra comparison just doesn’t work because Carlton overpaid for him. It would be nice to be able to cherry pick trades which make our players look more valuable but if we’re doing that why not pick 2 for Weller a few years before?

I would expect if it is Geelong he chooses it’ll be their first (which could be anywhere from 13-18) plus something relatively insignificant like a late or future second.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Until Butters has signed, I'm keeping Macrae. And when that happens, as mentioned above, the club and player (Macrae in this case) are then talking about the likelihood of reduced senior exposure (barring injury to first choice players ... so essentially depth) but with an important role to play in the development of other players through the VFL in terms of leadership and standards. Is that something that would interest you? If you'd prefer to look for more regular opportunities at senior level we'll do everything possible to facilitate that and you'd go with our sincere best wishes and gratitude for your immense contribution to our club.

I think this could be close to what's being discussed, actually.

Given Jacko has just turned 30 (2 weeks ago), he may be willing to see out his contract as you've described above.

Yes, he's a competitor and may want to go elsewhere for more senior time, but he's always been a club man
and is now on 247 games. Doesn't seem to have a huge ego, and may be okay with helping to develop young
blokes and being the super sub a la Gia.

I hope that's the case, and I hope we can afford to keep him. How good was he last week as sub?



The one thing that may stop that is if a club comes with an offer similar to that for Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell
a few years ago...in which case he'd go with our blessing, I'd say.

 

[Foxman98]

Interesting post

 

[Smiley Boy]

View attachment 2085458
Interesting post

Weird

 

[Foxman98]

Weird

Very weird considering Bevo's presser last week

 

[Norm De Guerre]

A plot twist worthy of a M. Night Shyamalandingdong shitfest.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Saw the post & came to say the same thing.

Da fk is going on.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Well, Smith is still gainfully employed by the club.

 

[Struggle]

Well, Smith is still gainfully employed by the club.

Breaking news, contracted player turns up to work
Social media guy posts pictures of most marketable player who will generate the most engagement

 

[bresker]

View attachment 2085458
Interesting post

Very weird. He appears to be on his own. Maybe he's smiling like a hostage as its part of his club commitments. Really don't think this post by the club was useful for any of us.

 

[maddog37]

View attachment 2085458
Interesting post

 

[Unorth]

My point is entirely about pushing them out on our end. I certainly wouldn't begrudge them wanting to chase more guaranteed game time elsewhere, and would hope we'd do right by them if that was the case*.

* St Kilda, GWS, Melbourne, Geelong are out of the question though thanks guys

Come on now, Macrae or Caleb in a Bombers top playing with stringer and we would all spew.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Very weird. He appears to be on his own. Maybe he's smiling like a hostage as its part of his club commitments. Really don't think this post by the club was useful for any of us.

Just like when Tim English made his little tie things up signal after kicking a goal two weeks ago. Then to announce his re-signing a few days later. Smith giving the two thumbs up is his way of signalling to fans that he about to do the same.

Youse know its true.

 

[BEaston]

I'm not pushing CD or Macrae out.

CD played well yesterday because he was allowed to play his best role as a high defender. Bramble's (excellent) wing minutes helped accommodate him. If we are expecting/wanting Freijah to move to the wing, and at least one, possibly two retirements out of JJ and Doc, our small defensive depth is really not substantial. There will be a spot there for him.

Macrae had an interrupted preseason, probably for the first time in his career. I don't buy that the game has sped up or he has fallen off so rapidly that he's now not up to it. He played very well yesterday and several other times this season. Yes, we have a lot of mid depth now, but I think he's still capable of offering a lot.

Unless we are bringing in big targets and need the cap space, I think it's lunacy to push either of them out.

I agree, but it was also North Melbourne. Need to see it a few more times to lock it in (CD especially).

 

[glenashley]

It’s hilarious. There isn’t a single coach in the history of the AFL that would play Sweet over English. The fact that people still bring it up is embarrassing.

For some reason people on this board seem to think Sweet is Simon Madden and Pat Lipinski is Simon Black. Probably the same people who thought Lewis Young would be a superstar…

I suppose it's a moot point with Darcy and Lobb being very capable backups.

We're quite blessed now with them being able to hold up key positions between ruck stints.

 

[_Mike_]

Bailey Smith - former pick 7 who has 29 career brownlow votes from 5 seasons as a former pick 7.

There's a belief that the Cats will pay whatever required to secure him on their list, but like all things the proof will be in the pudding when it comes to who is sitting at the negotiation table

 

[Hobdog]

Gee that B Smith social media post today is a bit weird. Obviously just designed to address talk that he’s already ‘checked out’.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[bresker]

Sam Power

Sam Power

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

isn't Dodoro. If Smith wants to go, the clubs will sort it out amicably. What goes around comes around, and I get the impression our recruiting team would rather be known as fair and easy to deal with , rather than a fake ball buster.

 

[Golden_6]

It would actually be very humorous if Smith did re-sign. There wouldn't be enough eggs to go around onto everyone's faces.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Gee that B Smith social media post today is a bit weird. Obviously just designed to address talk that he’s already ‘checked out’.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Don't know what to make of this, but surely the club isn't going to play games with members, sponsors and supporters here.

Perhaps Smith, Bevo and the club have been playing games with the football public, and the media in particular, all year

 

[BEaston]

It’s hilarious. There isn’t a single coach in the history of the AFL that would play Sweet over English. The fact that people still bring it up is embarrassing.

For some reason people on this board seem to think Sweet is Simon Madden and Pat Lipinski is Simon Black. Probably the same people who thought Lewis Young would be a superstar…

I agree but Lachie Young was Robert Murphy.