Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[yebach]

Isn't Kennedy just Harmes all over again?
We already have one of those stinking up our list.

Power has been living off the Treloar, Bruce and Keath deals for a long time.
Confused list build to say the least.

Kennedy is better than Harmes. So I guess that's a positive.

 

[Foxman98]

He'll still be a better player than Kennedy.

Kennedy kicked 16 goals this year Macrae kicked 5 neither will play much on ball

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I see Harmes and Kennedy as vaguely similar assets in our best 22 as proven players at AFL level who can play a variety of roles, offer different perspectives, and will be professional at the club, without taking up too much at the salary cap and allowing us to turnover the list with new players to see if they fit in the new environment without that turnover solely being 18 year old players.

It's not ideal, but nothing ever is, and these are the types of players we have to recruit in the absence of a large number of genuinely developing 2nd/3rd round draft pick talent in the absence of ever having those draft picks in the last 4-6 years with our bid matching and trades over that time.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

My own melting aside, if we truly do move on from Macrae and Daniel, there is an enormous amount riding on our drafting/player ID. That means this year - with possibly three picks inside 30 - but also previous years as well. Our fortunes over the next 5ish years are going to depend heavily on how much we can get out of our draftees.

Based on our recruiting form that does make me a little nervous. Outside of FS/NGA, we've had misses in Bedendo and Parker, with Jones/Cleary/Clarke looking shaky. McComb and McNeil we probably did OK out of from rookie selections, and there are really great signs from Freijah. Jury is out, with varying levels of positivity around Gallagher/Sanders/Buss/Smith.

We just don't really have enough of a sample size to judge our recruitment over the past five years. I think that definitely plays into my anxiety around bringing in picks.

 

[Scottish Bob]

If we are bringing in Kennedy does that mean the XOH deal is dead? Or would that be reliant if we lost both Jacko and Caleb?

 

[Foxman98]

That was not your point lol

If he's on 800k for the next 2 years it can't be front loaded,

He resigned off 3 AA years why would he resign for less then 600k per year for 5 years?

 

[cecil]

I'm okay with Kennedy but only if it's for a token late pick and with him knowing he is firmly in the 20-30th player part of our list

 

[DannyB4]

I'm not complaining, just sh1t stirring. Tbh, until an hour ago, I could have told you he was a Carlton player... and that's about it. Oh well, he's one of ours now, so guess I'll get his name tattooed on my back like every other player we've had since the early 70s...

How big is your back?

 

[Foxman98]

My own melting aside, if we truly do move on from Macrae and Daniel, there is an enormous amount riding on our drafting/player ID. That means this year - with possibly three picks inside 30 - but also previous years as well. Our fortunes over the next 5ish years are going to depend heavily on how much we can get out of our draftees.

Based on our recruiting form that does make me a little nervous. Outside of FS/NGA, we've had misses in Bedendo and Parker, with Jones/Cleary/Clarke looking shaky. McComb and McNeil we probably did OK out of from rookie selections, and there are really great signs from Freijah. Jury is out, with varying levels of positivity around Gallagher/Sanders/Buss/Smith.

We just don't really have enough of a sample size to judge our recruitment over the past five years. I think that definitely plays into my anxiety around bringing in picks.

Drafting over the past 4-5 years needs to be taken with a huge asterix with covid effecting list sizes as well as stunting development of players

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Just to correct the record here, Macrae asked for a trade. Nobody is pushing him out the door.

Daniel more than happy to stay apparently and he still might stay.

Semantics. They have requested trades because they have been pushed out of their primary positions, only to be replaced by the likes of Bramble and Harmes/Gallagher.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Drafting over the past 4-5 years needs to be taken with a huge asterix with covid effecting list sizes as well as stunting development of players

Sometimes I wonder if you read posts before disagreeing with them.

 

[Doggy]

If we are bringing in Kennedy does that mean the XOH deal is dead? Or would that be reliant if we lost both Jacko and Caleb?

Don't believe it is dead just yet.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Guaranteed if we were bringing in Houston for a F1 and a few other picks like Collingwood, we would still whinge.

We love whinging.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Semantics. They have requested trades because they have been pushed out of their primary positions, only to be replaced by the likes of Bramble and Harmes/Gallagher.

True and I would probably keep at least one.

Again we would whinge either way. We would whinge if we made no changes, whinge when we do.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Kennedy to the ruck when English forgets to show up again with the season on the line

 

[threenewpadlocks]

My own melting aside, if we truly do move on from Macrae and Daniel, there is an enormous amount riding on our drafting/player ID. That means this year - with possibly three picks inside 30 - but also previous years as well. Our fortunes over the next 5ish years are going to depend heavily on how much we can get out of our draftees.

Based on our recruiting form that does make me a little nervous. Outside of FS/NGA, we've had misses in Bedendo and Parker, with Jones/Cleary/Clarke looking shaky. McComb and McNeil we probably did OK out of from rookie selections, and there are really great signs from Freijah. Jury is out, with varying levels of positivity around Gallagher/Sanders/Buss/Smith.

We just don't really have enough of a sample size to judge our recruitment over the past five years. I think that definitely plays into my anxiety around bringing in picks.

I get that both players played significant game time last year, but this reads as overly dramatic to me.

We beat a top of the ladder and eventual Grand Finalists Sydney in Sydney (and then thumped Melbourne the following week), with neither Daniel or Macrae in the starting team for those games.

But we also didn't play Sanders, Harmes, O'Donnoell, Gallagher or Freijah in that game either - and we'll add Kenendy to that depth. This is a group of players that I expect to be significantly improved for next year and all should play a majority of games.

We've managed to keep onto our entire starting 22 from those fixtures, too, having re-signed Garcia and Khamis from that list.

I love a good overanalysis of our list and whether we're making the right moves but we're often guilty of missing the forrest for the trees and at the end of the day player values or draft pick values aren't valued in the abstract, they're valued for what they materially do in how they change our selectd team on a week to week basis.

 

[DannyB4]

Prefers to play under roofed stadiums with narrow wings, has a phobia about open spaces.

Heard he's very afraid of the Grassy Knoll Hill at Adelaide Oval.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Kennedy to the ruck when English forgets to show up again with the season on the line

He would offer a contest.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Kennedy is a very very good, underrated player. Toughest player on our list outside of Cripps imo.

Don't know why the Dogs are chasing him though, doesn't seem the right fit for player or club

Will be sad to see him go but imo a necessary list move for us given our list imbalances with a lack of run and class across our list.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Kennedy gives me Dunkley vibes.

But still prefer to invest in Sanders.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JTCWBFC]

Kennedy is a very very good, underrated player. Toughest player on our list outside of Cripps imo.

Don't know why the Dogs are chasing him though, doesn't seem the right fit for player or club

Will be sad to see him go but imo a necessary list move for us given our list imbalances with a lack of run and class across our list.

Zig when they zag.

The competition is all going for pace.

We’ll destroy them by going so slow they won’t know what to do.

 

[Dogs 13]

Just heard we are getting Bam Bam. Does that mean we are still a chance to get Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble?

No, they’re going to Collingwood & Carlton.
So our fall back choice is Dino.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

True and I would probably keep at least one.

Again we would whinge either way. We would whinge if we made no changes, whinge when we do.

I hear you, but I think if I were to boil my argument down to one main point, I just want us to pick an approach and stick to it. We need to be more aggressive in pushing the list down a certain path. It just feels like we're dancing around without a clear direction in mind at the moment.

I get that both players played significant game time last year, but this reads as overly dramatic to me.

We beat a top of the ladder and eventual Grand Finalists Sydney in Sydney (and then thumped Melbourne the following week), with neither Daniel or Macrae in the starting team for those games.

But we also didn't play Sanders, Harmes, O'Donnoell, Gallagher or Freijah in that game either - and we'll add Kenendy to that depth. This is a group of players that I expect to be significantly improved for next year and all should play a majority of games.

We've managed to keep onto our entire starting 22 from those fixtures, too, having re-signed Garcia and Khamis from that list.

I love a good overanalysis of our list and whether we're making the right moves but we're often guilty of missing the forrest for the trees and at the end of the day player values or draft pick values aren't valued in the abstract, they're valued for what they materially do in how they change our selectd team on a week to week basis.

3np I am really not sure how any of this runs counter to what I said. Four of the players you mention as expecting to be "significantly improved" are the draftees I was specifically talking about needing to put things together to propel us forward. I didn't say we were in dire straits - just that how far we go in the next 5 years is going to depend heavily on our talent ID and youngsters' development, which you seem to agree with.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Being opportunistic for players like Kennedy is good list management.

He's established as an AFL player so three years isn't a risk.

He'll come cheaply as both club and player are pushing away from each other at the former club.

He's an established best 22 player at a club that's at least had a reasonable amount of success over the last 4 years.

He'll come cheaply with a trade and contract (which is why we're happy to do the trade).

While he wants to play inside midfielder, he's not an egotistic player, and he's happy to trade off the fact that he might be shunted around different positions by the Dogs because Bevo builds a good culture to recruit players like him and he's happy to trade off the fact the Dogs might not play him in an ideal situation with the Dogs being the only club that is guaranteeing him another three years on an AFL list.

I get that he's slow or whatever but fundamentally he's a player that's clearly a positive value, picked-every-week footballer for a good club. We draft players in the hope that one day that they will reach that level. We're having one fall into our lap. In basic marginal valuation levels if he takes the place of a fringe player next year, that makes our team better, if we just assume he continues his better-than-fringe form.

Reserving my judgement until we get full trade and salary details but it's just smart footy.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Zig when they zag.

The competition is all going for pace.

We’ll destroy them by going so slow they won’t know what to do.

Hey it worked for us at stages this year... Then Voss and co seemed to figure out that getting absolutely torched without the ball is an unsustainable model if you can't win the contest the heavy majority of the time.

Dogs list management has always been a bit bizarre imo, but sometimes it pans out so who knows.