Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[X_box_X]

Did they just report that?

Nah I thought it was reported prior to the Kennedy announcement but obviously I misheard it.

 

[hutchy31]

We really didn’t have any leverage whatsoever in the Bailey Smith situation, and the minor pick upgrade to get Kennedy over the line really is about as much as you could hope for.

You can be the best wheeler dealer in the world but without leverage you’re f**ked in any negotiation. Anyone who thinks they could have done better is delusional.

Yeah, I’m not sure what Power is expected to do in the Smith situation. He’s sitting with a 2/7 off suit against someone with a pair of Kings and expected to execute some enormous bluff.

It’s the system that’s at fault. Clubs should be able to trade players to any other club while they’re in contract and haven’t reached unrestricted free agency, whether the player wants to go there or not. The current situation is perfect for players and their representatives, and only benefits those clubs that have significant drawing power and/or the ability to provide some sort of off-field benefit (without speculating exactly what that might be….)

Player nominates club he wants to go to, that club offers unders in the knowledge the player can walk to the draft and get to them anyway as all other clubs won’t want to draft the player through salary cap issues, fear of repercussions from player managers etc.

As with most things, the AFL has half-copied something from US sports and ****ed it up.

We should’ve been able to trade Smith to the highest bidder last year. WC should have been able to do the same with Barrass this year etc.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Due to Daniel's slightly younger age, he was far less likely to completely drop off than Macrae, and even if he does, he's only on the hook for two more years not three. In addition, he's already shown a capacity to reinvent himself and be flexible a few times in his career, unlike Macrae.

But at the same time, he's still also on very good money for two years, and even had a worse year than Macrae for us. Assuming an identical output of form, he's still going to be among North's weakest players in their 22 in a bad team.

He rescued his season and his trade worth in R23 and R24 with very good games but it's still a two game sample size. There were still many games he played poorly in, including vs. Geelong at Gather Round (leading to him getting dropped), poorly as the sub vs Fremantle in Round 14 (again, leading to him getting dropped), and without the outstanding VFL form that would see him come back in (unlike Macrae, who had 40 touch games when he went down to the VFL for the couple of games that he did).

I get North don't need pure onballers and they need to take what proven AFL talent that they can get, but getting a meaningful pick 25 out of a player who might only ultimately contribute to North, a bad team, around the edges, is a very good achievement.

All of this still on good money, that North is willing to pay - upwards of 700-800k for each of the next two years.

It feels dirty talking about a proper Bulldog flag hero and servant that way, but I think it's true.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I'm really not sure what people think Power should have done instead.
Happy to be enlightened.


One thing I will say is the seeds of this were sown with our less than satisfactory outcome from the 2023 trade period where we traded out a lot to get a top 10 pick and to secure Croft against rival bids. I know some people will say oh not that again but it meant that we came in this year with picks 35 and 48 (or similar).

We've just made the final payment on Croft and Sanders. Can't be changed but I wasn't happy when that trade went down last year and I'm still disappointed in it.

This year I think we did as well as could be expected. No better, no worse.
We don't have a top 10 pick and when the bids come in we might only just have a top 20 pick but I'm pleased we do have 3 picks in the first two rounds. By definition that's better than the average of all clubs.

Sam Power can now take a short break. Dom Milesi's turn to step up ... and make this work.

It’s pretty obvious isn’t it DW?

Power should’ve traded for Houston whilst keeping both Daniel and Macrae (because they’re all Australians from the 90’s derrr), kept next years 1st and received two 1st rounders for Smith.

If the Pies and Hawks can do it, why can’t we??

 

[Dogsman16]

The Smith saga really does go to show that we need to find out if JUH is in it for the long haul or is he not.

We need to capitalise on max value if he’s not. We still have Naughton, Darcy and Croft to build a forward line around.

Come September 2025 he’s either on a long term contract or traded to another club whilst in contract and we hold the power. Just my view.

This is not a “let’s get rid of JUH post” I’d be very happy if he’s a long term player. But we need to extract max value going forward.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

I have come around to being bullish about the outcome today.

Pick 17 for a guy who just missed a year with the dreaded ACL, who is a certified gold star turnover merchant by foot and who seems to have "issues": TICK.

Kennedy, who offers something a bit different for the midfield/forward rotation, for the (let us be honest) now marginal, over 30 and expensive Macrae: TICK.

Pick 25 for now fringe first team player Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

: TICK.

But it is sad to see two of the three go.

 

[BEaston]

Well... one reason this will always be a small club is because we have no flipping spine. Other than the Daniel trade, we were shafted without lube. There is no way to paint this as anything other than another massive fail.

25 is good, Kennedy is good, but the rest was weak as piss. We went in with one plan, and one plan alone.

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How do you know?

 

[Eastdog]

Trade period rating: I'll go B-

- We did good with the Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

trade getting pick 25.

- Jack Macrae and Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

were clearly not in our future plans going forward and have been excellent servants for our clubs both premiership players and we get the cap space.

- The Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

trade disappointing but we were stuck in a corner with him wanting to go to Geelong and what they were offering and not trying hard to upgrade that offer. I'm glad he isn't our problem anymore. We gave him an opportunity all those years ago and treated us poorly at the end.

- Matthew Kennedy is a good acquisition in the midfield and can play half forward so will help there. Won't address the pace through our midfield.

See what the draft can bring now.

 

[Dog 36]

We lost two quality people in Jack and Caleb.
If they wanted to go for whatever reason I’m happy we were able to facilitate for them.
They will always be able to walk back in the club and be welcomed.

We gained a quality player in Kennedy it seems. Good get imo. My Carlton mate says think Duryea. Team first mentality.

We got rid of someone who it seems those most important at the club the players are glad to see the back of.
He won’t be welcomed back
He can sod off.

 

[Generation West]

100% this, people rob the situation of all context to get shitty about it.

Both Macrae and Daniel were fringe this year and that didn’t look like changing. Literally why they wanted to go. Macrae has a very high salary which goes into that pick return (people like to ignore that part).

We had little to no leverage with Smith. The real issue is we should have dropped him last year.

We came in with no draft hand, we now have options. I’m taking the positive every time.

Kennedy on 2024 output is like for like with Macrae.

We got a good deal for Daniel as we were happier to keep him. Ignore the AA years ago that required a very specific role to work. He’s short and needs to be the most creative playmaker in the side to thrive. He didn’t have it. He’s out.

I think people are fixating on past successes without considering we got the most advantageous deals possible with what we had (contrast that with WCE and the Owies deal).

Agree mate.

We did the best we could under the circumstances.
Jack was an incredible accumulator who gave us first use with laser precision, but his limitations caught up with him.
Kennedy seems to be a similarly slowish inside mid, but is a much more physical player who is a fierce tackler.
Think we need Kennedy and Harmes types for their physicality.
Caleb just lost his mojo a bit and our style past him by.

Need to hope for improvement from Busslinger, Freijah, Gallagher, Sanders, Darcy and 15 games from each of JJ, Libba, Duryea, Treloar, with all fit and firing at the end of the H&A.

 

[Dogs5416]

So out is smith, CD, Jacko, Bedendo and Rypstra.

In Kennedy, 17, 25 plus our picks 35 and 47

What happens to Keath?


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[Dogsman16]

I’m not to disappointed about the Macrae component.

He’s given us 250 games (thereabouts), 3 AA’s (which I rank higher than best and fairests), kicked the most crucial goal in the 2016 prelim and had 39 disposals in a granny.

If anything he deserves to ride in on a chariot to all our future events.

We owe him more than he owes us.

 

[BEaston]

I’m interested to know what people think Power could have done? Smith was OOC and chose a club with no trade assets. You can’t hold a gun to their head and force them to find another pick. The only other option was losing him for nothing. You never know, with pick trading still allowed until November, we may be able to package up 17 and 25 to move up a bit.


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Yeah it's like people wanted the club to just be immensely stupid, but show everyone we're "tough".

What's the saying? Cut your nose to spite your face? Yeah, I'm thankful we didn't go that route.

 

[hutchy31]

Let's be real. This is a ****ing disaster.

Is it? It’s not amazing, but it’s unlikely to be the determining factor in whether we win a flag or not.

The young guns developing as we hope they will, Bont staying at his high level, Treloar and Libba wringing out 1-2 more seasons at a high level, and the coaching panel and match committee improving their performance (and maintaining some consistency of performance) is what will potentially take us there.

Hitting with our first three picks in this draft - ideally at small forward/wing/midfield depth - will help as well, obviously.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope the cats stink and Bailey’s kicking has got even worse (if that’s possible), but I can’t really lay the blame at Power’s door for that either. He played an atrocious hand probably as well as he could.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Positives. I like the cut of his jib already.

 

[charcoalchicken]

So out is smith, CD, Jacko, Bedendo and Rypstra.

In Kennedy, 17, 25 plus our picks 35 and 47

What happens to Keath?


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Can we still delist keath?

 

[CountryDog5]

I've just realised, for all the folks who wanted 17 and a F2, we essentially got that exact deal by the time all is said and done. I'd hazard a guess Geelongs F2 would end up thereabouts anyway by the time there are academy and F/S bids. We did ok, and just ok, which probably means it's reasonably fair for an out of contract distraction.

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[Sentinel]

God I wish I lived in this imaginary world you live in.

He could stop talking tough to the media every trade week and get deals done earlier.

You wanted him to get better deals done than he did, and also to have done them earlier?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I can give the trade period more of a pass if it seems like we're doing something more meaningful.

While we're now not going to be in a position to not be able to afford any player we want to keep's reasonable and realistic salary demands, the Macrae and Daniel trades can really either be good or bad depending on if we can land a free agent in the next year or two.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Due to Daniel's slightly younger age, he was far less likely to completely drop off than Macrae, and even if he does, he's only on the hook for two more years not three. In addition, he's already shown a capacity to reinvent himself and be flexible a few times in his career, unlike Macrae.

But at the same time, he's still also on very good money for two years, and even had a worse year than Macrae for us. Assuming an identical output of form, he's still going to be among North's weakest players in their 22 in a bad team.

He rescued his season and his trade worth in R23 and R24 with very good games but it's still a two game sample size. There were still many games he played poorly in, including vs. Geelong at Gather Round (leading to him getting dropped), poorly as the sub vs Fremantle in Round 14 (again, leading to him getting dropped), and without the outstanding VFL form that would see him come back in (unlike Macrae, who had 40 touch games when he went down to the VFL for the couple of games that he did).

I get North don't need pure onballers and they need to take what proven AFL talent that they can get, but getting a meaningful pick 25 out of a player who might only ultimately contribute to North, a bad team, around the edges, is a very good achievement.

All of this still on good money, that North is willing to pay - upwards of 700-800k for each of the next two years.

It feels dirty talking about a proper Bulldog flag hero and servant that way, but I think it's true.

100% we should be rapt to get them off the books. Great servants yet no strong clubs chased them for a reason.


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[Southern 8]

I can 100% say that Butters isn't coming to Bulldogs

Cam Raynor. Come on down then.

 

[Hobdog]

I honestly reckon there’s a bit of Dunks about Kennedy having just watched some highlights.


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[Dogs Rule]

I can give the trade period more of a pass if it seems like we're doing something more meaningful.

While we're now not going to be in a position to not be able to afford any player we want to keep's reasonable and realistic salary demands, the Macrae and Daniel trades can really either be good or bad depending on if we can land a free agent in the next year or two.

Not forgetting more room to fend off interest in Darcy.

 

[Foxman98]

Very happy with the Daniel and Kennedy trades

Macrae club legend unders but can cop it for him

Baz would’ve wanted a bit more but such is life not much we can do

 

[Bulldogs85]

This hurts