Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Libbaaaa]

You would think his next thought would be “why weren’t they playing in their favourite position” but apparently that’s a bridge too far.

They are all played out of position according to him. Silly Bevo not sending 6 mids to the centre bounce.

 

[Anja_Nees]

They are all played out of position according to him. Silly Bevo not sending 6 mids to the centre bounce.

Lloyd is stuck in Essendon’s glory days and it’s an affront to his reality that the Bulldogs, supposedly the poor cousin from the West, won a flag the same year Essendon had most of their list suspended for cheating.

He’s never gotten over it.

 

[Munnez]

Due to Daniel's slightly younger age, he was far less likely to completely drop off than Macrae, and even if he does, he's only on the hook for two more years not three. In addition, he's already shown a capacity to reinvent himself and be flexible a few times in his career, unlike Macrae.

But at the same time, he's still also on very good money for two years, and even had a worse year than Macrae for us. Assuming an identical output of form, he's still going to be among North's weakest players in their 22 in a bad team.

He rescued his season and his trade worth in R23 and R24 with very good games but it's still a two game sample size. There were still many games he played poorly in, including vs. Geelong at Gather Round (leading to him getting dropped), poorly as the sub vs Fremantle in Round 14 (again, leading to him getting dropped), and without the outstanding VFL form that would see him come back in (unlike Macrae, who had 40 touch games when he went down to the VFL for the couple of games that he did).

I get North don't need pure onballers and they need to take what proven AFL talent that they can get, but getting a meaningful pick 25 out of a player who might only ultimately contribute to North, a bad team, around the edges, is a very good achievement.

All of this still on good money, that North is willing to pay - upwards of 700-800k for each of the next two years.

It feels dirty talking about a proper Bulldog flag hero and servant that way, but I think it's true.

I was saying it at home to the kids that we needed to move on from Caleb. He is just too easily exploited when we don't have the ball. His lack of speed was his undoing didn't have that to balance out being if limited stature

 

[lachy]

Lloyd is stuck in Essendon’s glory days and it’s an affront to his reality that the Bulldogs, supposedly the poor cousin from the West, won a flag the same year Essendon had most of their list suspended for cheating.

He’s never gotten over it.

Essendon have not won a single final since 2004. 20 seasons have past since then. 3 seasons were severely impacted by WADA penalties.

In the time since they have not won a final we have won a premiership, made a Grand Final, made 3 Preliminary finals and won a final in another season.

They are a top 4 club, we are a lowly club, better wipe off the last 20 years as history does not support this observation at all

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Norm De Guerre]

absolutely incorrect

Not exactly a rebuttal that has me re-assesing my views on Clarke.

i watched most VFL games and his early form was very good however after his debut he did become a little inconsistent.

So did I.

Granted he played the most difficult position on the ground, but he was inconsistent before his debut and nothing much changed after other than his papers were probably stamped. One might even speculate that his debut was used as a motivator to get him on the straight and narrow. Given what you say next.

I have learned some things today i won’t share but there were some off field issues and several
other players were involved. Now there is only one player left and apparently he is under going some counselling and on a final warning.

You didn't have to be specific, but you said enough for anybody on this public forum to be able to read between the lines.

Why people feel compelled to divulge this kind of scuttlebutt, I'll never understand.

Clarke definitely has the talent it’s just a matter of he wants it and if he is going to be disciplined and dedicated enough to continue on.

That time was two years ago. He wasn't so good that he could take the risk during his first contract.

Personally he was always great to my children i wish him all the best for whatever is next. I have heard a whisper several afl clubs are interested. A kid that splits Ashcroft and Sheezel in a best and fairest has the talent it’s just as i said above commitment.

It's great that he was nice to your kids and it obviously means a lot to you given your regular defence of Clarke in recent weeks, when word of his delisting was beginning to float about. However, the reality is that if you're aware of of his alleged off field issues. Then so are any prospective teams allegedly looking to pick him up.

I'd suggest that this makes the likelihood of a second chance to be somewhere around zero. It's not like he ever showed anything that indicated he was going to make the leap into senior football that his junior contemporaries Ashcroft and Sheezel did from day one of their careers. The football scrapheap is ten high with talented juniors unable to make that leap.

Especially those that ply their trade as a specialist small forward.

 

[The City Boyz]

Not exactly a rebuttal that has me re-assesing my views on Clarke.


So did I.

Granted he played the most difficult position on the ground, but he was inconsistent before his debut and nothing much changed after other than his papers were probably stamped. One might even speculate that his debut was used as a motivator to get him on the straight and narrow. Given what you say next.



You didn't have to be specific, but you said enough for anybody on this public forum to be able to read between the lines.

Why people feel compelled to divulge this kind of scuttlebutt, I'll never understand.



That time was two years ago. He wasn't so good that he could take the risk during his first contract.



It's great that he was nice to your kids and it obviously means a lot to you given your regular defence of Clarke in recent weeks, when word of his delisting was beginning to float about. However, the reality is that if you're aware of of his alleged off field issues. Then so are any prospective teams allegedly looking to pick him up.

I'd suggest that this makes the likelihood of a second chance to be somewhere around zero. It's not like he ever showed anything that indicated he was going to make the leap into senior football that his junior contemporaries Ashcroft and Sheezel did from day one of their careers. The football scrapheap is ten high with talented juniors unable to make that leap.

Especially those that ply their trade as a specialist small forward.

We have a player on our list delisted from another club due to off field issues… haven’t heard a bad word about him since he’s been with us outside of his effort in the VFL prelim (just to give away who it is)

 

[doggiesin08]

Annoying about Clarke not working out as an early-ish pick (appreciating not much after him is looking any good) but it really is nothing compared to Phillips and Grainger-Barass being delisted after only 4 years as top 6 selections.

 

[W W Biscuit]

Seeing a picture of Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

in a Geelong jumper almost gave me a sense of relief.

He's gone. Never come back.

 

[Al dente]

On Charlie Clarke,
I never liked the selection, ive stated this a couple of times.
Very clever with genuine goal sense, seems like a great kid, but no other elite traits, small, not quick (pace is so important defensively these days), not an elite mark/leaper for his size. these types like Owies can sometimes make it and can play a role but they should only be taken with late picks and rookie drafts. this is what the tigers did to help build their dynasty. hopefully we learn from this.

 

[goodcop badcop]

On Charlie Clarke,
I never liked the selection, ive stated this a couple of times.
Very clever with genuine goal sense, seems like a great kid, but no other elite traits, small, not quick (pace is so important defensively these days), not an elite mark/leaper for his size. these types like Owies can sometimes make it and can play a role but they should only be taken with late picks and rookie drafts. this is what the tigers did to help build their dynasty. hopefully we learn from this.

Agreed. Watched him a lot as a junior and I thought the best we could hope for was a solid B grade talent and that we reached for him at the time. The draft was pretty bad to be fair though and I wouldn't have done much better myself. I wanted Brayden George at this pick for what it's worth who has bad knees.

You are right though, Richmond still managed to get Seth Campbell in the rookie draft who looks a better player and they have a history of picking up these types late and in the rookie draft.

Glad we at least had the balls to delist Clarke. I didn't think we had it in us.

 

[Anja_Nees]

On Charlie Clarke,
I never liked the selection, ive stated this a couple of times.
Very clever with genuine goal sense, seems like a great kid, but no other elite traits, small, not quick (pace is so important defensively these days), not an elite mark/leaper for his size. these types like Owies can sometimes make it and can play a role but they should only be taken with late picks and rookie drafts. this is what the tigers did to help build their dynasty. hopefully we learn from this.

If a draft is that thin by the 20s you’re probably best off trading the pick. Clubs overrate picks in the 20s. Might have been able to get into the next draft or use it to draw a player.

To be fair, I think our philosophy has been in recent years that first round picks are paramount but later picks are tradable for role players. Perhaps there was just no one else really on our radar at that selection and no one else to trade for.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Genuinely feel like West, who was asked to play physical roles on defenders and be a bit of both an air and ground player, can very much go to being a ground player and a small forward of sorts if Kennedy plays some minutes forward, as Kennedy is more of a marking threat, a bit like how Dunkley was not useless when he played forward despite his poor outskide kicking and decision making because he could clunk a mark.

Not sure what happened with West towards the end of the year. Earlier in the year he was a goal kicking threat. At the end of the year he did play a bit more midfield and he had one game towards the end of the regular season where he played a role in the midfield - first to the ball and grab it - where he was fantastic / but then seemed to drop off a cliff with from. He seems a bit of a loner? Not sure why/

He has the talent and can be our Robbie Gray. He is tough and has great football IQ. He is also brilliant with Darcy. He will be fine and a continue to get better.

We just need someone new or for Artie to finally take the role. Am I the only one who thinks the forward line functions better with Archie in it. Late last year he added great aerial strengths and some more size - if I were him I would see this as mine to take and put a few kilos on to help with power and speed and go take it .

Weightman JUH Darcy

West Naughton ????Archie

Harmes part of the mid and forward rotation.

Our mids are still going to be a strength for a few years at least:

Now: Bont, Trelor, Libba, Red, Sanders, Garcia

Two years: Bont, Red, Sanders (Great starting three), Garcia, West, Freijah.

We need to add for the future - a classic fast running balanced star and a CB leader (this could end up being Red) or Freijah? But also believe we need speed. Only Garcia has genuine burst speed.

Even worse on wings where we want fast gut running and good kicking - today we have one or the other not both.

 

[Fossie 32]

Not sure what happened with West towards the end of the year. Earlier in the year he was a goal kicking threat. At the end of the year he did play a bit more midfield and he had one game towards the end of the regular season where he played a role in the midfield - first to the ball and grab it - where he was fantastic / but then seemed to drop off a cliff with from. He seems a bit of a loner? Not sure why/

He has the talent and can be our Robbie Gray. He is tough and has great football IQ. He is also brilliant with Darcy. He will be fine and a continue to get better.

We just need someone new or for Artie to finally take the role. Am I the only one who thinks the forward line functions better with Archie in it. Late last year he added great aerial strengths and some more size - if I were him I would see this as mine to take and put a few kilos on to help with power and speed and go take it .

Weightman JUH Darcy

West Naughton ????Archie

Harmes part of the mid and forward rotation.

Our mids are still going to be a strength for a few years at least:

Now: Bont, Trelor, Libba, Red, Sanders, Garcia

Two years: Bont, Red, Sanders (Great starting three), Garcia, West, Freijah.

We need to add for the future - a classic fast running balanced star and a CB leader (this could end up being Red) or Freijah? But also believe we need speed. Only Garcia has genuine burst speed.

Even worse on wings where we want fast gut running and good kicking - today we have one or the other not both.

Wasn’t Westy going well until the broken jaw?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Agreed. Watched him a lot as a junior and I thought the best we could hope for was a solid B grade talent and that we reached for him at the time. The draft was pretty bad to be fair though and I wouldn't have done much better myself. I wanted Brayden George at this pick for what it's worth who has bad knees.

You are right though, Richmond still managed to get Seth Campbell in the rookie draft who looks a better player and they have a history of picking up these types late and in the rookie draft.

Glad we at least had the balls to delist Clarke. I didn't think we had it in us.

To be fair, it's clear that it was a weak draft from Clarke's pick onward. Who knows if Clarke would have even been a pick 30 or whatever in anotger strong year.

We can infer that the draft team understood that it was a weak draft because with our two list spots we took Gallagher (a 19 year old who theoretically could have been drafted the year before too but was overlooked then) and then passed our final selection that eventually became Poulter.

By some measures the fact that he played 1 game at all suggests it was a better potential pick than some of the other options who will play zero.

 

[goodcop badcop]

To be fair, it's clear that it was a weak draft from Clarke's pick onward. Who knows if Clarke would have even been a pick 30 or whatever in anotger strong year.

We can infer that the draft team understood that it was a weak draft because with our two list spots we took Gallagher (a 19 year old who theoretically could have been drafted the year before too but was overlooked then) and then passed our final selection that eventually became Poulter.

By some measures the fact that he played 1 game at all suggests it was a better potential pick than some of the other options who will play zero.

The fact he played one game says more about our other small forwards then anything else. I thought Clarke's combine results should've stopped us recruiting him that high. But anyway, it was a weak draft and pretty hard to get right as you mentioned.

 

[dergert]

We got Harvey Gallagher in the same draft with a pick in the 40s.
The draft was a dud, Gags isn't.

 

[Munnez]

The only f*** up is not moving Smith on last year. Thats it. But again, it's our club being too trusting when we were dealing with a grub, a little self obsessed, snide, two timing worm. That's our only mistake.

We all know Geelong diddle with trades and manipulate the system, but the AFL have no appetite or are too cowardly to do anything, so we have to be ruthless. If a player is a chance to leave we get rid of them while under contract.

The trouble with that is the player has to agree. Why do you think Smith said no last year? He was already set on getting to Cats we were always screwed.

 

[Fossie 32]

If the club wants to cease a players contract they have to pay them out but no disadvantage to the player if roles reversed

 

[BallaratBulldog]

If the club wants to cease a players contract they have to pay them out but no disadvantage to the player if roles reversed

Big Tommy Boyd walked away from his. It does happen sometimes.

 

[Munnez]

Not many on here give Poults any credit for his development last year. Has shown a hell of a lot more than Gardener, Cleary, Baker, Poulter, Arty and Clarke.

Definitely saw a level of improvement from Poulter hopefully he can take another step and become a regular in the 22

 

[BLACAE]

We have a player on our list delisted from another club due to off field issues… haven’t heard a bad word about him since he’s been with us outside of his effort in the VFL prelim (just to give away who it is)

Who is this?

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The City Boyz]

Who is this?

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

The Pies weren't impressed with Poulter's professionalism

 

[Mr. Walker]

I am not a Poulter fan but there is hope. I admire Dane Rampe

24

Dane Rampe

Age

34

Ht

187cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

2.5

4star

MG

358.8

5star

D

14.1

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

284.5

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

now but he himself has said that he was just not mature enough when he was with us to make it. There is still time but the trick is knowing that it will eventually happen or if it never will.

 

[BLACAE]

The Pies weren't impressed with Poulter's professionalism

I wasn't aware of that. I don't mind him. He has deficiencies he needs to work on, but I think he's growing.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[adogsfan5]

Speed speed and more speed, mids and small fwds is surely the Main focus for the draft?