List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[Baird]

Surely Mayne is evidence enough to stop chasing fringe players. Just chase a deadset gun, or have faith in developing our own kids.

There is nothing wrong with signing fringe/depth players like Mayne, you need them to fill the list.
But when you give them 4 year contracts, then there's something wrong.

 

[GoalSneak07]

The only way we would even contemplate Stringer is if we would have traded away Faz so I can't really see us being a destination for him. I still think he would be a welcome addition to our team. The guy is a star when he's on, but don't think we're at the stage of taking another gamble. Probably in a similar boat as to why we won't look at Motlop too. Too risky..

 

[cakewalk06]

I don't mind who we draft, but please do not trade for any more oldies or mediocrity. Russell, lynch, white, Mayne, S Buckley, Corrie, Armstrong, Golds. Only players with upside please. No McVeigh, no close, etc.

And NO players with baggage either. We have enough of that already.

I wanted Sam Reid but that didn't work out. Now watch him shine in the finals.

 

[MagpieBat]

So, there was an interesting meeting going down in Richmond this morning...

 

[Go Woods]

So, there was an interesting meeting going down in Richmond this morning...

Lock him in Eddie.

 

[JustInsideFifty]

So, there was an interesting meeting going down in Richmond this morning...

What would you offer him mate? I'd take the risk and offer a long-term deal, something like 800k indexed with TPP for 8 years... he's not worth that now, but think we'd get value long-term. Worth the risk imo. Would spew if he went to Melbourne!

 

[JustInsideFifty]

I don't mind who we draft, but please do not trade for any more oldies or mediocrity. Russell, lynch, white, Mayne, S Buckley, Corrie, Armstrong, Golds. Only players with upside please. No McVeigh, no close, etc.

And NO players with baggage either. We have enough of that already.

I wanted Sam Reid but that didn't work out. Now watch him shine in the finals.

Where do you draw the too old / too mediocre line? Would someone like Jack Trengove (is 26, FA) appeal? Now that Lever's price seems to have risen to ludicrous heights, I hope we have a look (at reasonable $) ...

 

[Apex36]

What would you offer him mate? I'd take the risk and offer a long-term deal, something like 800k indexed with TPP for 8 years... he's not worth that now, but think we'd get value long-term. Worth the risk imo. Would spew if he went to Melbourne!

He'll never go to Melbourne. His Dad made it pretty clear years ago that leaving Collingwood was his biggest mistake and Darcy was brought up a pies man.

 

[MagpieBat]

What would you offer him mate? I'd take the risk and offer a long-term deal, something like 800k indexed with TPP for 8 years... he's not worth that now, but think we'd get value long-term. Worth the risk imo. Would spew if he went to Melbourne!

I don't know. The Cloke omnishambles is the here be dragons cautionary tale about long term deals. On the other hand, Father-Son legacy key forwards who can actually play are the jewel in the crown of list management. You just can't let them go. So maybe taking the plunge is the way to go...

 

[Quicky]

I don't know. The Cloke omnishambles is the here be dragons cautionary tale about long term deals. On the other hand, Father-Son legacy key forwards who can actually play are the jewel in the crown of list management. You just can't let them go. So maybe taking the plunge is the way to go...

No way. Not until Moore's output warrants it. It's too much risk and potentially crippling.

 

[MarkT2]

The guy has big off field issues. He's not someone I'd be keen on paying a lot for because there's no guaranteeing he'll be able to turn himself around. If it was just a form issue I'd be ok with looking at him but it goes deeper than that.

Perhaps. So did Garry Ablett snr, Barry Hall, Aka, Buddy and plenty more. The question is, can they be overcome? Maturity can change a lot as well. As I said, happy to price the price subject to DD.

Had a glance at the Doggies board and they seem very frustrated with him. These off field "issues" aside, they're saying he doesn't do the required defensive work, is not playing to his size, is not hard enough at the footy and has ongoing hamstring concerns.

Perhaps. See above.

Good clubs cope with and get performance from difficult people. We gave up on a few under Buckley. I have no doubt Stringer under Buckley would be a disaster. Maybe if Beveridge can't make it work no one can. Mathews is the classic pragmatist. He can handle them until their value falls below their difficulty.

 

[Apex36]

Perhaps. So did Garry Ablett snr. So does Buddy. The question is can hey be overcome. Maturity can change a lot as well. As I said, happy to price the price subject to DD.

Stringer is good, but he's no Ablett or Buddy, not even close to the same league. Those are guys who you take despite the baggage because they're good enough to be elite despite their issues. Stringer is not worth the baggage.

 

[Jasper84]

I don't know. The Cloke omnishambles is the here be dragons cautionary tale about long term deals. On the other hand, Father-Son legacy key forwards who can actually play are the jewel in the crown of list management. You just can't let them go. So maybe taking the plunge is the way to go...

Extra like for "Omnishambles"

 

[MarkT2]

Surely Mayne is evidence enough to stop chasing fringe players. Just chase a deadset gun, or have faith in developing our own kids.

Leigh Brown filled a hole. Hawks propped up the ruck with fringe players. It's always horses for courses. More than anything we need real talent though and fringe players aren't going to get it for us.

 

[MarkT2]

Stringer is good, but he's no Ablett or Buddy, not even close to the same league. Those are guys who you take despite the baggage because they're good enough to be elite despite their issues. Stringer is not worth the baggage.

For a long time Ablett snr was an under performing ocassionally brilliant HFF. Blight made him.

 

[Go Woods]

What would you offer him mate? I'd take the risk and offer a long-term deal, something like 800k indexed with TPP for 8 years... he's not worth that now, but think we'd get value long-term. Worth the risk imo. Would spew if he went to Melbourne!

Think you'll find he will probably sign for say $2.5mill for 3 years...then command over a $1mill a year for what you would think will be his biggest and longest contract by the time he is 25 and at the peek of his powers.

 

[Jasper84]

For a long time Ablett snr was an under performing ocassionally brilliant HFF. Blight made him.

Ditto Ablett jnr

 

[soreplums]

So, there was an interesting meeting going down in Richmond this morning...

I thought he had already signed a contract extension. Didn't realise he was out of contract

 

[MagpieBat]

Extra like for "Omnishambles"

 

[Apex36]

I thought he had already signed a contract extension. Didn't realise he was out of contract

He's not. They're getting it done early so there's no circus next year.

 

[legendstatus]

I'm not an advocate for trading stars of our team but I am one for let's just see what he is worth and what we can get for a player like that.

I believe the best thing for the club is to find the best possible way to position the team during the draft and trade period - no player is indispensable.


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[adammania9]

Where do you draw the too old / too mediocre line? Would someone like Jack Trengove (is 26, FA) appeal? Now that Lever's price seems to have risen to ludicrous heights, I hope we have a look (at reasonable $) ...

I think unless there is a player who offers a lot of experience/maturity (Wells last year for example, McVeigh could be one this year), we have to go young. There's a huge gap in our list of quality players aged 25-29, so our current group of 22-24 year olds are probably going to be the experienced bunch next time we tilt for the premiership. I wouldn't be poaching any 25+ year old players unless for special circumstances, such as being of super high quality or as mentioned, have a lot of experience.

 

[Scodog10]

Perhaps a change of mascot is in order? The Collingwood Omnishambles has a decent sound to it

 

[cakewalk06]

Where do you draw the too old / too mediocre line? Would someone like Jack Trengove (is 26, FA) appeal? Now that Lever's price seems to have risen to ludicrous heights, I hope we have a look (at reasonable $) ...

On the question of old, I mean anyone whose best football is definitely behind them. I understand the Wells move as a calculated gamble because his peak is so high but I don't want to see anyone like a McVeigh (role player who does not fill a need for us or). Just no ridiculous calls like Suns made with players like Rosa and Malceski.

By mediocrity i mean anyone without at least one potentially elite attribute, be it speed, kicking, tackling, so on. I would much rather roll the dice on potential through the draft than recruit another honest foot soldier. Or recruit the high draft picks the GWS can't squeeze into their team.

So in short, go to the draft or go hard at real quality through trade. I might be in the minority camp in that I don't think our list is that bad and we are only a couple of stars away from challenging.

 

[Snoop Dog]

In an ideal world for me we fix the KP posts because under a new coach we won't have access to this level of draft pick, IMO. We have to strike while we keep getting access to early picks.

There's also a sense of frustration for me because we had chances despite not investing early draft. Cox last year, McGovern in 14 and McCarthy in 13. The irony is that all three will probably be Dockers in 2018 and their KPF profile was as poor as ours three years ago.

I'm not overly keen on Lever because I just can't justify what it will take to get him plus I think he'll choose Melbourne. I also haven't seen enough to be certain he can be the man to build a defence around such as Andrews. I'm on board with an investment in speed and skill this off-season, but it would help if we used WHE better. In the end there's only 4 names on my radar for pick 5/6/7 Stephenson, Fogarty, Brander and Balta I'd definitely have to bow to your judgement there though.

Too many of our better players are trade in's so no matter what direction we take it's imperative that we invest in the draft. To sit 13th with just one player in the 22 U22 squad is terrible!

Yeah look I am a bit the same. I wouldnt be upset at all if they aimed up at a Schoenmakers / Trengove or even a Casboult (thereby pushing Reid back) and preserving the pick 6 for any of those boys you mention. I would go Brander but not unhappy with any of them.